Jumping back in

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I wouldn't say I necessarily believe tarot and astrology, but it's entertaining to say the least, and really, really interesting most of the time (though, according to a recent reading a friend did on me, there is a very negative female influence in my life right now and I'm apparently afraid of becoming a lesbian confused ).

The thing with the Bible though, is how do we know God at all without it? I mean, Christianity as we know it is hugely based on the Bible. How do I know what God expects of me if I have nothing to go on? How do I know what's right and wrong unless I go to the source? Right now, I don't feel like the source is speaking to me, which only leaves me with the Bible, but I feel like I can't trust it. You know what I mean?  

[rmcdra]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I wouldn't say I necessarily believe tarot and astrology, but it's entertaining to say the least, and really, really interesting most of the time (though, according to a recent reading a friend did on me, there is a very negative female influence in my life right now and I'm apparently afraid of becoming a lesbian confused ).

The thing with the Bible though, is how do we know God at all without it? I mean, Christianity as we know it is hugely based on the Bible. How do I know what God expects of me if I have nothing to go on? How do I know what's right and wrong unless I go to the source? Right now, I don't feel like the source is speaking to me, which only leaves me with the Bible, but I feel like I can't trust it. You know what I mean?

Because God made us in his image. Even without the Bible we would still have signs of God.

There's a lot of misinterpretations and mistranslations within scripture. If something seems "off", then I would encourage you to find out why it seems off. More than likely it was interpreted wrong or the passage is being taken out of it's historical context.

We know right from wrong because we inherited from Adam the curse of the Fall, the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We are morally responsible for our actions and we have an internal moral compass that tells us right from wrong. The fact that there are morals that are cross cultural is evidence of this.

Being skeptical of the Bible is normal. Many people have their doubts. Ryu and Freelance have the right idea. Admit that you have doubts. If you don't admit that they are their you are just lying to yourself. Those that would mock you or question your "Christian-hood" for having doubts are foolish hypocrites. I would encourage you to allow your doubts to encourage deeper seeking and questioning but there's no point in seeking if you "think" that your doubts are unfounded or that you'll never find an answer. Don't obsess of course but keep an open eye, an open mind, and an open heart.

PS. I don't believe homosexuality is a sin. I don't believe women should "take a backseat" either. I don't believe those who haven't heard of Jesus are damned for hell. You are not alone in your views. Those views do not go against the Bible but rather they go against the traditions of those who interpret the Bible that way.  

[freelance lover]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I wouldn't say I necessarily believe tarot and astrology, but it's entertaining to say the least, and really, really interesting most of the time (though, according to a recent reading a friend did on me, there is a very negative female influence in my life right now and I'm apparently afraid of becoming a lesbian confused ).

The thing with the Bible though, is how do we know God at all without it? I mean, Christianity as we know it is hugely based on the Bible. How do I know what God expects of me if I have nothing to go on? How do I know what's right and wrong unless I go to the source? Right now, I don't feel like the source is speaking to me, which only leaves me with the Bible, but I feel like I can't trust it. You know what I mean?

The Bible is easy to interpret in just about any way you would like. The mainstream belief comes out of one tradition, but there are countless others. I also believe that- to an extent at least- the Bible speaks to different people differently, and that's acceptable.  

[viper_353]

Hey, this is like my first post in this guild in forever, and I don't think I want to come back into it, but I was scrolling through guilds and decided to click this thread! I'll answer what my thoughts are on your first post....
how do I keep from slipping away from faith?
--well, reading my bible helps. Once I've been away from it for a while, just reading it feels neccessary. Like it's something I've desperately needed for so long.
Going to A GOOD church though is something that's really important. And in saying 'a good' church I don't mean to say that a lot of churches I see are wrong in their teachings. Just, a church that has services which connect with ME. Somewhere I go and feel fellowship with other people, and a place where I know that God is in the room whenever I walk in.
And about not feeling it when worshiping....A pastor once told me that grace is us reaching up to God as far as we can go, and him meeting us there. I don't think that it's neccessary for us to be able to FEEL God's presence everywhere we go. He's there wherever and whenever you go. Worship is the art of extending our arms up to heaven and saying "daddy, I need you." He'll hear the praise you shout out, and no matter if you're feeling what we like to feel in a service you're still talking to him.  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I wouldn't say I necessarily believe tarot and astrology, but it's entertaining to say the least, and really, really interesting most of the time (though, according to a recent reading a friend did on me, there is a very negative female influence in my life right now and I'm apparently afraid of becoming a lesbian confused ).

Luck and superstitions don't necessarily bother me, but tarot and astrology do. I'll explain my issue with tarot to demonstrate my point.

Tarot existed for over 300 years without any connection to divination. Then, in 1781, some Swiss guy made up a bunch of ideas about how tarot was used for divination in Egypt. This was completely made up, a product of an overactive imagination. Added to the irony, the man who came up with the idea was a protestant pastor.

So some guy had a crazy idea with absolutely no basis, and 200 years later people are still acting as though he wasn't just a fool. An entire belief system stemming from nothing but an incompetent guy making outlandish claims (the same thing is true of the 2012 predictions).

Even if you ignore the insanity of the origin and existence of tarot readings, the concept itself is unsound. The idea behind tarot readings is they allow a person to tap into a spirit, a god or just one's own subconsciousness. This is combined with some loose guidelines which are different in every area tarot is used. The final ingredient is a person's own personal "sense" of what the cards mean.

Tarot started with some guy's delusion. Tarot readings are performed by people deluding themselves into thinking the (false) structure of the reading process enables a dormant ability. And I don't need to comment on those who believe the readings.

I have no problem with participating in things like this for fun. It's when you believe there is some validity in the process trouble starts. Flip a coin, toss a die, ask someone for advice. Just don't believe there is a mystical aspect to something so inane.

Fushigi na Butterfly

The thing with the Bible though, is how do we know God at all without it? I mean, Christianity as we know it is hugely based on the Bible. How do I know what God expects of me if I have nothing to go on? How do I know what's right and wrong unless I go to the source? Right now, I don't feel like the source is speaking to me, which only leaves me with the Bible, but I feel like I can't trust it. You know what I mean?

I'm not sure I understand you here. I've never suggested someone should ignore or discard the Bible. In fact, I always advise the exact opposite. Most people let their beliefs be shaped by the people around them. It's the worst thing you could possibly do.

Read the Bible. Learn about the differences in text introduced by translations and transcriptions. Look into the disagreements which have happened between those who study the Bible. Talk to people about what these disagreements mean. This is how you learn what the Bible says.

Just think. A person with no preconceptions who studies the Bible would need less than half an hour to find it doesn't condemn homosexuality yet millions of people think it does.

You can worry about what they say and think, or you can worry about what the Bible says.  

[rmcdra]

while tarot sucks for divinations, it is useful for giving some insight about how one's mind tick. Here's a recent study on therapeutic uses of Tarot.

Tarot as a Projective Technique  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Wow. I hadn't actually thought of any of what I'm going through as growth. I'd been kinda feeling like it was the opposite of growth. I know I have definitely grown in other ways, and I wonder if my new philosophies on life won't disagree with the value of Jesus' teachings just by their very nature. In the past year or so, I've turned into a bit of a feminist with a strong propensity for preaching on the merits of sexual freedom, which, so far as I know, is sort of not taught in Christianity (sex is for marriage only). As selfish as it seems, I don't know that I could give up a lot of what I believe in favor of more Biblical teachings. I don't believe women should take a backseat role in everyday matters, and particularly in relationships, I don't believe sexuality is something to be repressed and kept only in someone else's "proper context," I don't believe that homosexuality, in theory or in practice, is sinful, and I don't believe that other people who have never heard of Jesus are set up for eternal damnation. A lot of this goes against either what the Bible teaches, or what other people say the Bible teaches, and it makes me just want to throw it all away for the sake of avoiding argument and say it doesn't matter what someone else says you should believe -- just do what's in your heart. So I don't know if you'd still necessarily call that growth.

Sounds like you finally managed to crack the shell of what you believe v. what you think you're SUPPOSED to believe. And you know what? You're not alone. Most of the guild is on the same page as you are. You're a smart lady. You know enough to look deeper into the Bible and see that there's more to the text than meets the eye. Anti-homosexuality laws are usually in place for the sake of cleanliness, staying disease-free, and the need for a large population. The parts of the Bible that say women need to shut their mouths and make their man a sammich was from a time very early in the church when they were barely considered separate from Jews, were only just starting to break centuries of Jewish tradition, and made sense at the time because men were more educated anyway.

You're heard all your life what the Bible says. From your parents maybe, from pastors, from the church as a whole. None of them have the picture 100% right. What the Bible says and what it MEANS has to be taken into consideration. Who wrote that book/letter, when it was written, and what was going on at the time. The Bible is a tool, but it's most useful when you have as much context as possible. You needed the advice of people who taught you the Bible at face value as a child, but now that you have the capacity to really think for yourself, do it.

Welcome to being a 21st century woman. wink

Fushigi na Butterfly

It's like there's a total disconnect. I don't get it anymore. It's not me, it's not who I am, and I don't know how to get back in a way that is me and who I am. When I've cried to God about it, I don't feel the same comfort or peace I used to when I'd go to Him. It's just nothing. Silence. An empty void. It's not even so much a wall like it has been in the past. The wall is gone, but I'm not finding anything on the other side.

I know my boyfriend will be a huge help to me in this respect; I think he gets it a little better than I do. Unfortunately though, it is my only motivation. If it wasn't for him, I'd probably still be plodding along doing my own thing. I have no other motivation of my own to give this God thing another try. D:

Though, to be completely honest with you... I don't think anything we say is going to help with your journey, especially if your heart's not in it. I think at this point in time you're still struggling too hard to fit what you think your faith is all about into who you are. Or, in some cases, probably saying "the hell with this" and thinking you're better off not even trying. I mean, I'm glad that you and your boyfriend are in this together, but I honestly don't know how far you're going to get if your only reason for doing this is for his sake.

If you ARE sincere in trying to get your faith back... relax. Don't push so hard. You can't force it, and trying to force it isn't going to do anything. You need time to feel that your new philosophies aren't diametrically opposed to Christianity. There are a bunch of us who are raging liberals and we'd gladly welcome you into our ranks. xd

Fushigi na Butterfly

The thing with the Bible though, is how do we know God at all without it? I mean, Christianity as we know it is hugely based on the Bible. How do I know what God expects of me if I have nothing to go on? How do I know what's right and wrong unless I go to the source? Right now, I don't feel like the source is speaking to me, which only leaves me with the Bible, but I feel like I can't trust it. You know what I mean?

Didn't we have a thread like this? If not, I think the making of one is in order. *nodnod*  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

I wouldn't say I necessarily believe tarot and astrology, but it's entertaining to say the least, and really, really interesting most of the time (though, according to a recent reading a friend did on me, there is a very negative female influence in my life right now and I'm apparently afraid of becoming a lesbian confused ).

Luck and superstitions don't necessarily bother me, but tarot and astrology do. I'll explain my issue with tarot to demonstrate my point.

Tarot existed for over 300 years without any connection to divination. Then, in 1781, some Swiss guy made up a bunch of ideas about how tarot was used for divination in Egypt. This was completely made up, a product of an overactive imagination. Added to the irony, the man who came up with the idea was a protestant pastor.

So some guy had a crazy idea with absolutely no basis, and 200 years later people are still acting as though he wasn't just a fool. An entire belief system stemming from nothing but an incompetent guy making outlandish claims (the same thing is true of the 2012 predictions).

Even if you ignore the insanity of the origin and existence of tarot readings, the concept itself is unsound. The idea behind tarot readings is they allow a person to tap into a spirit, a god or just one's own subconsciousness. This is combined with some loose guidelines which are different in every area tarot is used. The final ingredient is a person's own personal "sense" of what the cards mean.

Tarot started with some guy's delusion. Tarot readings are performed by people deluding themselves into thinking the (false) structure of the reading process enables a dormant ability. And I don't need to comment on those who believe the readings.

I have no problem with participating in things like this for fun. It's when you believe there is some validity in the process trouble starts. Flip a coin, toss a die, ask someone for advice. Just don't believe there is a mystical aspect to something so inane.

Huh. I'd never heard the history of tarot, especially not like that. It's still interesting to me though. sweatdrop

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

The thing with the Bible though, is how do we know God at all without it? I mean, Christianity as we know it is hugely based on the Bible. How do I know what God expects of me if I have nothing to go on? How do I know what's right and wrong unless I go to the source? Right now, I don't feel like the source is speaking to me, which only leaves me with the Bible, but I feel like I can't trust it. You know what I mean?

I'm not sure I understand you here. I've never suggested someone should ignore or discard the Bible. In fact, I always advise the exact opposite. Most people let their beliefs be shaped by the people around them. It's the worst thing you could possibly do.

Read the Bible. Learn about the differences in text introduced by translations and transcriptions. Look into the disagreements which have happened between those who study the Bible. Talk to people about what these disagreements mean. This is how you learn what the Bible says.

Just think. A person with no preconceptions who studies the Bible would need less than half an hour to find it doesn't condemn homosexuality yet millions of people think it does.

You can worry about what they say and think, or you can worry about what the Bible says.

Oh, I never meant to imply you suggested disregarding the Bible. I just have a hard time understanding the infallibility of it. But I think I have less faith in people's ability to be divinely inspired, as opposed to God's ability to divinely inspire. confused But maybe I'll have to be a little more open-minded about reading my Bible.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

The Amazing Ryuu

Didn't we have a thread like this? If not, I think the making of one is in order. *nodnod*

You should make it anyway. xd  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Huh. I'd never heard the history of tarot, especially not like that. It's still interesting to me though. sweatdrop

There isn't anything wrong with finding tarot interesting. Heck, I find it interesting. That's why I know so much about it. I can actually give a better reading than most people who use tarot, and I don't use anything mystical or mysterious.

Fushigi na Butterfly

Oh, I never meant to imply you suggested disregarding the Bible. I just have a hard time understanding the infallibility of it. But I think I have less faith in people's ability to be divinely inspired, as opposed to God's ability to divinely inspire. confused But maybe I'll have to be a little more open-minded about reading my Bible.

I think the most important thing to do when considering your faith is to not assume anything. Before you get frustrated with a contradiction in what you believe and what the Bible says, you should look into what the Bible actually says. It's easy to get upset with some of the popular beliefs about God, but their popularity doesn't mean they are accurate.

For example, it is easy to hate the idea of people who haven't heard about God burning in hell for all eternity. After all, how could a loving god punish people for something they weren't responsible for? It's a horrible idea.

Of course, the answer is quite simple. There is no hell of fire and brimstone. The popular view of hell is unsupportable with the Bible.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I've given some pretty accurate and creepy readings before, but I'm not sure that I believe them too strongly. Perhaps it's more very convincing coincidence that's affecting me. confused

Regarding your comment about interpreting the Bible -- that is a very good point. I feel less intimidated now. 8D  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I've given some pretty accurate and creepy readings before, but I'm not sure that I believe them too strongly. Perhaps it's more very convincing coincidence that's affecting me. confused

Human minds do love to find connections and patterns, so it is easy to fall into the trap of coincidence. If you really want to test your ability with tarot, make records of your readings. Later on, go back and look at what you recorded. Consider what you knew before the reading (especially if you gave a reading about a person), consider what you said, and consider what developed from then on.

As a side note, I programmed a paper, rock, scissors game for my graphing calculator when I was in high school. I had a win rate of 37-38% over 5,000 games. I'm psychic!

Fushigi na Butterfly

Regarding your comment about interpreting the Bible -- that is a very good point. I feel less intimidated now. 8D

I'm glad to hear it.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

My most accurate readings I've done on my best friend, but I've known her for ten years. So ... 8D;  

[Ravynne Sidhe]

`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -

The thing with Tarot is that the people do the readings don't delude people. It's normally the people who ask for the readings that delude themselves with false expectations of the future. What many people don't understand (not saying you don't Fushigi) is that the future changes, it never stays constant. Tarot doesn't tell the exact future, but more so opens different doorways to a possible future. Meaning that what people "predict" could be something that could possibly happen in the future, however it just might not happen. You can't bet on it actually happening because the future isn't so easy to predict.

Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

 

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Personally, I never turn to tarot to tell the future, for myself or others. I use it to tell the present, if that makes sense. It's more of a way to focus on a certain aspect of a problem and maybe figure out how to approach it.