Mentor Yulo-chan [Open]

[MarianasLlama]

Yulo-chan

Ohhh this is really good. whee
You definitely used some of the left side of your brain. Ahh~
You did shading too~~ heart heart

Some things you should work on are the angles of the lines, the shading, and the completion of an image.
Angles of the Lines
When you see a line, try putting your pencil to it and maintain that angle when you draw the line. This is especially important for the fingers to look naturally bent.
Shading
Pay attention to the values and how abruptly they change. For example, the shading around the veins on the right side should be very soft and gradual.
Completion of the Image
I asked you to copy the reference picture completely, right?
You should have noticed and drawn the background, the shirt, and the cast shadow, and you should have stopped drawing where the reference picture ended. <: We'll work on that.

I resized your drawing, increased the brightness and contrast, turned it pink, and put it on top of the reference picture for you to see how your attempt to completely copy the reference image went.


I want you to take notes on top of it, now. (: Expand the canvas size(not resolution size) and circle the areas where you made "mistakes," and take notes on how to improve it next time. For example, one mistake I would circle is the wrist; I'd write next to it, "Wrist should be wider" Also, always be positive and avoid using the words "not," "too," and "enough." (: For example, instead of writing "The wrist isn't wide enough," or "The wrist is too thin," write "The wrist should be wider." Okie? <:

This is my last post for today. You can take your time and do more practicing if you want. <: I'll be back tomorrow to look at your grids for a bit. Sorry

[Yulo-chan]

RARRRRRR I stayed up longer to finish this:


I used a grid (: See how much it helped me?


*dozes off*

+ Hahha (: you feel discouraged because it didn't come out as well as you'd liked it, eh? We'll keep working on it. heart  

[MarianasLlama]

I've gotten over it over and over again



Nono not discouraged at all actually :p
Just ashamed that I almost never fully complete a picture because I get too lazy to fix things 3/4 of the way through.

xD

----- Angelic Minis: 9mil/240+ Mil----

 

[Yulo-chan]

Ohhh. Awww ): Ashamed...

I can only be online for less than an hour today. ): I spent too much time painting..

How did you feel about yesterday and what's on your mind? <: I'll think up something for tomorrow. heart  

[MarianasLlama]

I've gotten over it over and over again



I though tit was fun! I like having someone telling me what to do instead of my usual herpderping around wondering what to study.

I like that you made me draw hands, because I fail at them so hard omg.

----- Angelic Minis: 9mil/240+ Mil----

 

[Yulo-chan]

ahhh whee I couldn't have gotten a better mentee than you. XD
Then we'll do hands again. This time feminine and elegant hands heart Let's also work on shading now. Read ALL these tutorials if you haven't already. <:
Tips for Seeing Values
Shading Principles
Shading Techniques
Tips for Edges

Here's another image you should try to copy completely [link]

I put it into a grid for you and desaturated some of the rectangles to help you figure out the values for the shading. <: Here it is [link]

And here is a grid for you to draw on. heart [link]

Make sure you pay attention to the angle of lines. <: And shade the background, too. Good night zzzz

See you tomorrow  

[MarianasLlama]

Yulo-chan

ahhh whee I couldn't have gotten a better mentee than you. XD
Then we'll do hands again. This time feminine and elegant hands heart Let's also work on shading now. Read ALL these tutorials if you haven't already. <:
Tips for Seeing Values
Shading Principles
Shading Techniques
Tips for Edges

Here's another image you should try to copy completely [link]

I put it into a grid for you and desaturated some of the rectangles to help you figure out the values for the shading. <: Here it is [link]

And here is a grid for you to draw on. heart [link]

Make sure you pay attention to the angle of lines. <: And shade the background, too. Good night zzzz

See you tomorrow

I've gotten over it over and over again





Why exactly are we using the grid?
Just curious ^^




----- Angelic Minis: 9mil/240+ Mil----

 

[Yulo-chan]

Ah. It tells you when you made a big mistake. From your first attempt to copy an image, the placement of some of the fingers were significantly off. You knew that you made mistakes, but you didn't know how or where, right? If you use a grid, it will point out all of those for you.

For example,
if you get the angle or length of a line wrong, and you didn't use a grid, you will have difficulty noticing it.
However, if you did that error while using a grid, your drawing would obviously look flawed. You can see your mistake much more clearly, because your drawing doesn't fit into the grid correctly.

therefore, the grid is a very good way to spot and fix your errors. The more you use it, the less errors you will make because each discovery will improve your perception, your ability to perceive space and dimensions. It's a great learning tool. You should never stop using it, just like how you should never stop referencing from real life, no matter how good you think you are, or else your growth will be stunted.

However, whether you end up using it as a handicap, or a learning tool, is up to you. If you mindlessly just draw everything in the grids and you're not careful, nothing will really happen. But if you really observe what you're doing, try to find your mistakes and make sure everything is positioned correctly, and really question the adjustments and positionings, you'll get a lot more out of it, as with anything else in art.  

[MarianasLlama]

Okay, just curious because mostly what I've learned has been to not copy photos completely, and to only reference parts when you need to know how something moves or are studying the form of something like drawing lots of hand photos to get better at drawing hands, along with. Studying bone structure etc. Sorry I'm such a stubborn mentee xD

But that's just what I've learned in the past. Also, I won't be online until about 10pm my time, Im going straight from school to work >< sorry about that  

[Yulo-chan]

ohhh. From what you've said, I understood that you were taught to reference parts when you need to know/study something. You were taught that it is wrong to copy entire images; just take what you need.

I find that the artist community all have different ideas on how to develop artistic understanding. I tend to listen to the artists with exceptional ability and can draw any pose at any perspective with flair, making everything that they do seem so easy. I tend to let their experience and advice on how to get that good override what other artists assume/say. Just as how there are people who say that you have to be born with talent to be good at art, there are people who will tell you that it's wrong to reference too much and that everything should just come from your imagination or else omg you're an art thief. Here are articles where my beliefs are based off of:
5 Ways To Improve Your Artwork
Advice from Professional Artists
It's good to question things, but it's also undesirable to let what people told you in the past get in the way of how you see new ideas in the present. What you think is important; not what others think. Take a fresh eye, a beginner's mindset, to what is presented in front of you--open your mind and try new things to see if it works out for you. If it does much better than past methods, then embrace it. If you really don't like it, go back. <:

What I'm trying to say is that I hope you get where I'm coming from. If referencing only a part of an image helps you, think how much referencing the entire image would help you. <:

But your iffiness has not gone unnoticed. Rather than referencing images from the internet, how do you feel about taking photos of things around the house and using those as reference material? We could reference anything, really, as long as the photos you take are crisp and clear.  

[MarianasLlama]

I've gotten over it over and over again



Yupyup, I was just wondering (:
I'll continue to do whatever you think is best, but I've also been taught o question things ;]

The grid thing makes sense to me if it's to improve skills of drawing what you see in the way that eventaully you will be able to reproduce pictures withOUT the grid, or else the grid seems kindof useless to me, ebcause I can't very well carry around a little grid to draw things from life, which is supposed to be superior to drawing from photos, and the drawing from photos thing was a preface to life drawing in one of those articles you linked ;]

I hope I'm not coming off as stubborn or arrogant or anything, I think discussion and debate of things is important in learning. Heck, it's all we do in lectures right now, discuss and debate different points of view on things that we're learning and crap like that. I'm still going to respect your decisions, because I think trying anything new will probably be helpful in furthering artistic knowledge and ability.

I'm working on the grid hand thingy. Had to work all day today, hopefully I'l have it for you by tomorrow at the very latest. Sorry for being so slow >< Weekends are kindof the busiest part of my week ><

----- Angelic Minis: 9mil/240+ Mil----

 

[Yulo-chan]

Debating is okay... I feel a bit on edge all the time though XD Will you hold in your debating spirit until after you try something new at least once? I think that the debates will be far more efficient once you know first hand what you're debating with me. Rather than making me explain everything beforehand, you can at least experience it first-hand for yourself and ask questions later about things that are still bothering you. XD

I'm glad that you read the articles I linked to you. I will link you to an article I once read about how using a grid was a technique developed thousands of years ago. The first model was gigantic grid made out of metal bars, resting on top of something to hold it high enough. The artist would look at his real-life subject through the metal grid and reproduce an image, confident that his placements were correct. I had forgotten about it until my friend suggested to me to take a photo of my subject and divide the photo into four rectangles. Later, I found out from him that it was actually our art teacher(she's very college-oriented and not kingergarten-oriented) who encouraged him(and the rest of her class, and later on, me, since I transferred in later) to take photos of our subjects and draw grids over them to use as reference. Here is the article: [link]

From the other article I linked(which you were referring to), copying images is to prepare you to copying from real life. To me, copying an image cut up into tiny pieces is to prepare you to copy an image cut into large pieces, which will prepare you to copy an entire image accurately, which will prepare you to copy from real life accurately. At first, I was going to try and make you copy lines, since you said that you had trouble making smooth lines, but then I decided not to XD The article on the grid method encourages using the grid method and photograph method(just like my art teacher) during the earlier stages while it's still easy to fix before you refine and complete your image.

It would be dumb if the grid made you worse at drawing in the end. XD How can you effectively learn from copying a reference if you didn't even copy it correctly, you know? Make sure that you observe/question what you're copying, just like how you debate with me. <:

You're not coming off as stubborn or arrogant, but you are giving off an "I think you're wrong, but I'm going to play by your rules anyway so that I can prove it" or "Um... I hope you will realize by yourself that you're wrong" aura. I would call it... coming off as self-righteously tolerant? XD Is there any way for you to type differently that makes you come off somewhat more respectfully? XDDDD
I know you are using smilies to come off as friendlier, but it seems sarcastic because the connotation/tone of the content/thought development in your words contradict them xDDDD
On the other hand, my friendly smilies while my content contradicts them is because I'm a subconsciously nervous-laugher XD

And of course! (:  

[MarianasLlama]

Yulo-chan

Debating is okay... I feel a bit on edge all the time though XD Will you hold in your debating spirit until after you try something new at least once? I think that the debates will be far more efficient once you know first hand what you're debating with me. Rather than making me explain everything beforehand, you can at least experience it first-hand for yourself and ask questions later about things that are still bothering you. XD

I'm glad that you read the articles I linked to you. I will link you to an article I once read about how using a grid was a technique developed thousands of years ago. The first model was gigantic grid made out of metal bars, resting on top of something to hold it high enough. The artist would look at his real-life subject through the metal grid and reproduce an image, confident that his placements were correct. I had forgotten about it until my friend suggested to me to take a photo of my subject and divide the photo into four rectangles. Later, I found out from him that it was actually our art teacher(she's very college-oriented and not kingergarten-oriented) who encouraged him(and the rest of her class, and later on, me, since I transferred in later) to take photos of our subjects and draw grids over them to use as reference. Here is the article: [link]

From the other article I linked(which you were referring to), copying images is to prepare you to copying from real life. To me, copying an image cut up into tiny pieces is to prepare you to copy an image cut into large pieces, which will prepare you to copy an entire image accurately, which will prepare you to copy from real life accurately. At first, I was going to try and make you copy lines, since you said that you had trouble making smooth lines, but then I decided not to XD The article on the grid method encourages using the grid method and photograph method(just like my art teacher) during the earlier stages while it's still easy to fix before you refine and complete your image.

It would be dumb if the grid made you worse at drawing in the end. XD How can you effectively learn from copying a reference if you didn't even copy it correctly, you know? Make sure that you observe/question what you're copying, just like how you debate with me. <:

You're not coming off as stubborn or arrogant, but you are giving off an "I think you're wrong, but I'm going to play by your rules anyway so that I can prove it" or "Um... I hope you will realize by yourself that you're wrong" aura. I would call it... coming off as self-righteously tolerant? XD Is there any way for you to type differently that makes you come off somewhat more respectfully? XDDDD
I know you are using smilies to come off as friendlier, but it seems sarcastic because the connotation/tone of the content/thought development in your words contradict them xDDDD
On the other hand, my friendly smilies while my content contradicts them is because I'm a subconsciously nervous-laugher XD

And of course! (:

I've gotten over it over and over again





That's not what I'm trying to convey at all ):
More of an i-don't-understand-at-all-where-you-are-coming-from-so-im-going-to-question-you-alot-but-i-know-you-are-probably-right-so-im-going-to-do-what-you-say-anyways. xD

I'm terrible with coming off in ways that I don't mean to mad
99% of people I meet think I'm a b***h, but I'm just socially awkward and don't know how to work with things properly ><

And I assure you my smilies are all indicative of what I'm actually feeling, so, um, put more weight on my smilies than my words? Heh sweatdrop


I promise I don't mean to disrespect you at all in any way D: And I sincerely apologize for anything that I may have said thus far that would seem disrespectful toward you
Bawwwwww I fail with words. xD


----- Angelic Minis: 9mil/240+ Mil----

 

[MarianasLlama]

I've gotten over it over and over again



Okay, first of all I'd like to apologize again. i re-read through all of my posts and I did sound like you said I did.

Think we can start with a fresh slate?
I will try to save all of my questions until after, and I promise to start thinking a little more before I post.

Also, I thought I'd give you a little indication of how far along I am with this one
This is what I've done so far
I'm hoping to finish the first hand before I go to bed tonight (Laaaate night time xDD)


----- Angelic Minis: 9mil/240+ Mil----

 

[Yulo-chan]

I hope I'm not making you feel too bad... XD
It's partially my fault for being sensitive to opposition towards my ideas...
My ideas are the same entity as my identity >:
Usually I just don't let it affect me because I don't have to talk to that person ever again, but now I can't run away since this is a mentor/mentee relationship. XD

I'm super-sensitive to tones. Can you try to do a "hmm this is interesting/I'd like to know more about this/There's something that I've been wondering about lately" tone while you're asking questions? XDDDDD

<: I accept your apology hahaha ! and yeah, mentoring is does take some time. XD

Ohhh. Does painter essentials have density/opacity and a soft/fuzzy brush type on brush settings? I would suggest "airbrushing" where the light hits the hand to imitate the effect shone in the photograph. Also, be careful about the concavity of your lines. The lines for the fingers are bending outward, but your left brain is making you assume that the lines for the fingers are bending inward. Try to just see the picture as shapes, values, and lines and not as hands. And careful about those lines--you are exaggerating the degree of the curves. Also, recheck the angles of the lines that you drew. Try not to get discouraged (:
I just gave you this as a challenge, so try your best. We'll review and go over how you do. The activities I give you after this will be easier. <: