Finally time to let you know:

[wicked_faery]

TeaDidikai

Winter Black

As for you two, picking at me, TeaDidikai and Soilwork, thank you.

Welcome.

Quote:

And maybe I do have a few complexes, but that's only because I've been picked at, disowned, and persecuted many times in my short, four year's of Paganism.

Some conflict is going to happen no matter what you do- but were I spending time with you outside of this forum, I would likely ask you why? How do people know you are different in order to single you out?

Quote:

But I would only naturally be blind to them on my own, being simply human (though sometime I loath to admit I'm part of the same species as people like Osama bin Laden or George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or Vlad the Impaler).

Tsk tsk- cheap shots. Clinton and Vlad were actually pretty cool. ~wishes she were president so she could get Oral Sex in the Oval Office~

Quote:

And here is something you probably need to thik about, before you say anything more to me:
There aren't any Pagan's in my city that I've ever met. The only girl I knew who called herself Pagan was a fluffy named Tina who wouldn't learn no matter how much I tried to show her, and who's mother was a Jahova's Witness and wouldn't relinquesh control on her life.

Ummm... why is that relevant?

Quote:

And not only have I been damned and disowned in the past for my Paganism, I've also been assaulted for my Bisexuality. And believe me, I'm not one of those in-your-face Pagan's or Bi's, screaming it out to the world. But someone let the info slip to a few people who disagreed with it, and I got hit on more than one occasion.

And did you file charges?

Quote:

So I feel the need to try to protect the world from itself, as silly as it may sound. I'm not self-defencive, though. I won't stand up and fight for myself. But I stand up and fight for others, for everyone else.

I disagree. From an objective perspective, this is being self-defensive. You're just spinning it as defense for all of Paganism. Soil and I don't need your defense. I manage very well on my own. Heaven help anyone who assaults Reagun for being pagan. Likely the last thing they'd ever do.

And I credit Nuri- should she face such, she'd walk away from the situation.

Deo would likely have their heads swimming and spinning so much they wouldn't know what hit them until she was done mocking them and was long gone.

Smart Pagans rarely need defense. And when we do? There is always the Police and the ACLU.

Quote:

Although, on an unrelated topic, I still fail to see how any Religion possessing a God and a Devil can truly be monotheistic, considering both entities would count as dieties.

By that reasoning, you are a devil worshiper.

Christians hold YHVH as their only god. The Devil is a lesser spirit, and not a god in it's own right. Hence why people outside of the religion do not get to define the religion as they see fit.

oh would u give it a break!? let ppl alone. ur acting like u know everything & every1 else is wrong. quit bashing on everyone (including myself) & grow up. let ppl have there say & discuss it. if u don't want to discuss it & argue instead then please leave. cause i know for 1 i don't want to hear it. let ppl learn & stop bossing us around.  

[Sivirs]

wicked_faery

oh would u give it a break!? let ppl alone. ur acting like u know everything & every1 else is wrong. quit bashing on everyone (including myself) & grow up. let ppl have there say & discuss it. if u don't want to discuss it & argue instead then please leave. cause i know for 1 i don't want to hear it. let ppl learn & stop bossing us around.

Whoa, whoa there. Chill. Have a flip through the dictionary while you're at it, taking special care to look up the differences between "argue," "debate," "discuss," and similar words. You might then join us in the real world, where just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're out to get you, and nobody much cares if your feelings are hurt by someone else's opinion.

And just as a personal favor to me, please type like the literate person I know you can be? It's awful hard to wibble through all the lame monkeycrack textspeak, and quite honestly, when your text gets read out loud in my head, you sound like a 3 year old writing in crayon because there's no capitalization or proper grammar or spelling to be found anywhere. Which is funny, granted, but it gives you zero credibility.

You can't possibly be in such a hurry that it's too hard to write out the word "you." Plus it is REALLY funny for someone who can't be bothered to put together a proper sentence to tell anyone else to "grow up" and as long as you keep that up, it's not likely we'll take you seriously. If you don't respect Tea enough to make your post legible to her, why should she give a rat's a** about hurting your (apparently super-fragile, 'cause we've exchanged much harsher words and I still don't have any Tea voodoo dolls with needles in 'em or anything) feelings? I mean, I'm all about people having to earn my respect, but everyone deserves to not have to sit through deciphering the laziness that is your typing. I had a hard enough time with it, and I have no reading disorders.

That said, because it REALLY showed your lack of respect/credibility and was thus worth pointing out, Tea's not arguing. She's debating, she's offering her input, and unlike YOU, the OP understands that and is taking it as such. She's not bossing anyone around, seeing as the OP is not required to even acknowledge her advice/opinion, much less act on it, she's stating her opinion on things. Neither is she claiming to know everything - she's, once again, stating her opinion on things, for the OP to take or leave as they like. If you'd like to see bitchy and insulting, I'm sure I could throw something at you for comparison purposes, and then you can see for yourself how perfectly civil Tea was being. If you find there to be a flaw in her argument, you're quite free to address it, rather than whangsting over how mean she is for daring to disagree.

And isn't it just a leeeetle bitchy, bossy AND hypocritical of you to tell Tea what to do and then demand she leave, right after bitching at her for supposedly being obnoxious, immature, and bossy (read: all the things you just did)? Do you own this guild? Have you been here longer than her? Do you present yourself as a mature, knowledgeable person worth listening to over Tea? The answer to all of these (except question 1, which is a resounding YES) is no. So how is it okay for you to be bossy and bash on Tea in a very un-grown up manner, but *she* is the one who's bossy and needs to grow up?

Basically, you are the pot calling the kettle black, in bright green crayon with the Ss all spelled backwards. And it is funny. And I hope Tea is even half as amused as I am.  

[wicked_faery]

have u ever thought that a person's brain might think faster than their hands can type & to make all of the corrections along the way gets them off track & makes them lose their train of thought? I highly doubt it. & i have a disagreement with tea cause she doesn't even entertain other people's theories and ideas, nor does she give a reason (so far as i can see) as to WHY they are wrong. to me that is being pushy and a bit egotistical. All i ask is that she at least explain herself & not oppose every single thing she reads in the way that she does. it is disrespectful and rude. But why do I bother explaining this to you? u look at my typing & see a 10 year old that's on crack. You're not listening to what i say but rather judging me by how i type. which is quite unfair. & i NEVER demanded she leave. i merely suggested if she doesn't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all.  

[Orion-Blacknuckle]

Wow you guys are amusing to watch. Just reading all the well-thought out, extremely literately done posts that have so much intelligence behind them fills me with a sense of awe. I love seeing people like you come together and debate topics.

Yes W_F, debate. That is all they're doing. If you can't discern between debating and argueing then you need to learn a few things. I don't want to get into what you think is an "arguement" so I won't. That is only because I know you may never acknowledge the victor of such a thing, if anyone could be called that when the time came.  

[wicked_faery]

Orion-Blacknuckle

Wow you guys are amusing to watch. Just reading all the well-thought out, extremely literately done posts that have so much intelligence behind them fills me with a sense of awe. I love seeing people like you come together and debate topics.

Yes W_F, debate. That is all they're doing. If you can't discern between debating and argueing then you need to learn a few things. I don't want to get into what you think is an "arguement" so I won't. That is only because I know you may never acknowledge the victor of such a thing, if anyone could be called that when the time came.

i'm not looking for any fights..unlike some ppl would like to think. all i want is for mine & other's oppinion to be respected...not just tossed aside & told their wrong which to me seems like what tea is doing. I'm SO SORRY if it's not her intention but wtf!? she's not saying so. all i'm getting is somebody else budding in & starting in w/ me. so think what u will. don't ecpect another response from me ever again. i'm through w/ this discussion, dispute, what have u.  

[Winter Black]

No, Fae. It's alright. Like she said, we don't need other to defend us. I get it. I just can't help it, myself. But I'll try. We were only having a heated discussion, I don't take any of that personally as an attact on my views and beliefs. She has her points.
But if all this topic is going to do it cause fights among people who see each others Avatar's more often than I do, I'll ask for it to be deleted. I don't generally hang around in more than one place, so after a bit you might not see me for ages, and maybe one day I'll post out of no where.

Anyways, to answer Tea as to why people know, I have told a few of my close friends, and sometimes it slips when I'm having a conversation with someone. I've been outright asked my Religion. I'm not going to lie about myself just so that I can be protected, but I'm not going to get up on a soap-box and shout it to the world.
And while Vlad was cool, he was also a psychopath.
The relevance of my not having a single other Pagan around me is this:
I don't have people around me who were in Paganism before me, and know more than I do. A lot of my information I get from books and from the internet, and the library. But I have so much else to do that I don't really have time for extensive research. I overlook certain things, or miss this or that. And then, when I get online and talk to someone who has more knowledge, I feel like a fool. I know enough about my own Religions to keep my head above the water. But that's about it. What ever else I know, people tell me, and so I'm never sure if I'm being bullshitted or not. Not until I use the info somewhere under the hopeful protection of "someone once told me..." and get bashed for being wrong. I'm not a Fluffy, I just don't have enough time to look things up completely before I have to get offline, and then I forget what I was looking up, or I lose interest, and whatever.
And yes, I filed charges. But I have no idea who those people are who you are talking about. I said above, I don't hang out in more than one place at a time, and I haven't been here pretty much at all since I got accepted. This is the most activity in a week I've ever given this Guild. So try not to name off people I don't know, because I feel like an idiot when you do.

Ah, Christians also worship YHVH's son, though, do they not? The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit?
I don't know, I never really ever paid attention when my grandmother dragged me to church as a small child. I never had faith, I never paid attention, I was never interested. But someone said to me five years ago, "How can you consider yourself a good Christian if you don't pay attention?" And I could only think of the answer "But I don't even want to be considered a Christian at all, let alone a good one..." Which raised the question among my friends of what my Religion was. And after looking into a lot of Religions, I think I gave up. And then it occured to me that maybe I could tell them that I followed the old Egyptian Religion. I had certainly always wanted to. And after a little research, I was a pure Kemetic. But something was missing. And then I became an ecclectic, and something else was missing, and so on, and so forth. And now I'm, sticking to the basics, an Asa-Kemetic Grecco-Romano Shinto-Native Celt. And that's not counting the old South American Religions, and the others that I took bits and pieces from.
Oh, damn. ^^;; I ramble. Sorry. Heh.  

[TeaDidikai]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[maenad nuri]

wicked_faery

have u ever thought that a person's brain might think faster than their hands can type & to make all of the corrections along the way gets them off track & makes them lose their train of thought?

Actually, I do know. Because I'm a very severe ADHD. You know what I do? I take my time and proofread and examine my arguements.

And funny enough, it works. Try it.

You are being more arguementive than those you are disagreeing with.

Tea does pick apart arguements. Its not being mean. Its being thorough. Hold yourself to a higher standard, and perhaps you won't have as many arguements. It's not bashing. And that you take disagreement and debate for bashing only shows you in a poor light.  

[Winter Black]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[TeaDidikai]

Winter Black

Normally I don't tell people... Only people who I actually would trust my life to. The friends I tell are people who I consider family. They never care. But when I'm talking to people who I know, I usually forget to guard myself. It slips my mind, or I think I can trust that person a little. It happens. [shrugs]

Heh... Guess it would be good for you to find some better friends. Don't worry. Happens to the best of us.

Quote:

It's actually just my opinion that he was sick in the head. Some of the things he did, I wouldn't have been able to abide by.

Guess it's a good thing you aren't a Prince living in a region threatened by Turks who wish to slaughter you, your family and your people.

Quote:

That would be wonderful! <3 Please do! I have a few sites book marked... http://www.pantheon.org and places like that.
It's usually only pantheons I research. I know a lot about the magic involved in some pantheons, and writing spells and and such. I'm very good at spells, actually. ^^ I've only had a few of them fizzle and fail. I've never had a backfire. <3

Will do.

Quote:

Quote:

One problem. They are American. I live in Canada. Otherwise, I would thank you and contact them next time my rights were violated.

Hmmmm... thank you. I think I'll have to find out what your version of the ACLU is called and get some contact info for you.

Quote:

Thanks. It took me a few years to figure out what I believed. I almost went into Wicca, but the whole thing just wasn't right for me. [giggles] I think it was the whole not-really-ancient thing. (You know, having been popularized in the 1950's by Gerald Gardner(sp?) and all that?)

Well, to be fair, most pagan religions are modern recons. Age does not make something valid or invalid.

Quote:

Actually, I noticed most of the fluffies I've seen online claim to be Wiccan... That makes me laugh, sometimes. ^^;; Not at Wicca, but at the fluffies. I guess it's the ferocity with which they try to prove themselves.
I'm rambling again. ^^;;

Naw- it's amusing. Outer Court Wicca offers a lot. And without correction, there isn't a good way to know that Scott Cunningham isn't the end all be all of Wicca

 

[Winter Black]

Maybe, but a lot of my friends don't tell people about my Religion. I only have a few really good friends whom I trust that much. Like I said, they are like family. Otherwise, I try to keep it to myself, but I can be a very talkative person.
The majority of my friends are anti-Religion in general... They don't see a point to it.
My parents both accept my Paganism. My mom would kill me if she were to find out I am Bi, however. I don't want that, so I keep it from her. I love her, and I don't want to hurt her. I have no idea how dad would react. o.o

Yeah, I guess it is a good thing I'm not a prince living in a region threatened by Turks who wish to slaughter me, my family, and my people. ^^;; I wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING, because my morals are the way they are. The worst I could do would be to hold my ground with as little killing as possible.
I was referring more to the time he took all the poor, old, and sick, fed them, then burned them all in the dinning room, though. Things more like that. That sickens me.

As for the whole modern recon thingy, I'm a Reconstructionalist. I try and emulate the Religions as closely as I can to the old ways, so long as it fits our modern society, and I'm not morally against it. About the only thing I don't so is kill animals as sacrifices. I burn and burry foods, and burn papers with poems on them in honor of my Gods.

Nor is Silver Ravenwolf... Whom I noticed writes more about her personal beliefs then of Wiccan beliefs in general. I tend to stick to Pantheon.org and Selene Silverwinds "Everything about Paganism", which is a very good read.
I do tend to try and calmly explain through PM about Wicca, but I gave up after a while, because most of the Fluffies just called me names and said I was wrong. rolleyes Sillies.

By the way, if there is anything you would like to add to this, please do write it up and PM it to me, and I'll add it underneath with, say, a pen name of your choise.  

[TeaDidikai]

Winter Black

Yeah, I guess it is a good thing I'm not a prince living in a region threatened by Turks who wish to slaughter me, my family, and my people. ^^;; I wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING, because my morals are the way they are. The worst I could do would be to hold my ground with as little killing as possible.
I was referring more to the time he took all the poor, old, and sick, fed them, then burned them all in the dinning room, though. Things more like that. That sickens me.[/qauote] Pst.... that wasn't the poor old and sick- those were heads of state and the local Priesthood that had murdered his father and were planning to assanate him. Historical revisionism and Turkish propaganda can be a b***h.

Quote:

As for the whole modern recon thingy, I'm a Reconstructionalist. I try and emulate the Religions as closely as I can to the old ways, so long as it fits our modern society, and I'm not morally against it. About the only thing I don't so is kill animals as sacrifices. I burn and burry foods, and burn papers with poems on them in honor of my Gods.

Which, in my book wouldn't make you a Recon. It would make you an Eclectic with an affinity for certain paths. Baring an action being illegal, Reconstruction that avoids parts of a practiced Faith because they think it is "icky" or "immoral" isn't really reconstructing anything, but borrowing aspects from something to fit them.

Quote:

Nor is Silver Ravenwolf... Whom I noticed writes more about her personal beliefs then of Wiccan beliefs in general.

That has everything to do with the fact that she isn't Wiccan.

Quote:

I tend to stick to Pantheon.org and Selene Silverwinds "Everything about Paganism", which is a very good read.
I do tend to try and calmly explain through PM about Wicca, but I gave up after a while, because most of the Fluffies just called me names and said I was wrong. rolleyes Sillies.

I'd have to see what you were saying to know if I agreed with it or not.

 

[Saint Judas Iscariot]

Winter Black

So I copied and linked Wikipedia.org as the source. ^^;; I still need Kemeticism, Wicca, Religio Romano, a brief summary of a few of the Native American faiths, and a description of Thelema...

For the best description of Thelema, I recommend Thelemapedia.org. Many people's individual opinions of Thelema don't really do the concept justice.  

[CuAnnan]

*inserts his standard rant about pillaging his cultural identity by tagging the misunderstood term "druid" onto what can, at best, be described as a neo pagan ecclectic earth based religion...*  

[CuAnnan]

wicked_faery

have u ever thought that a person's brain might think faster than their hands can type & to make all of the corrections along the way gets them off track & makes them lose their train of thought?

That was an incredibly poor argument to pull. I'm a computer programmer, I have an entire block of code written in my head before I start typing it. My ability to type is not based upon my ability to think. The two are completely unrelated.

Everyone thinks much much faster than they can type. I can, for example, only type at around 80 words per minute, slightly above average. I, however, can hold entire conversations in my head in mere seconds. I am not unusual in this regard. The human brain is exceptionally fast at building and retracing neuron paths making it an exceptionally efficient and speedy computer.

However, most of us can slow our brains down. However, your problem comes, not from your thought-speed:typing-speed ratio, but from your unwillingness to make an effort.

In fact, to turn your argument against you, if your brain is so fast, you should be able to correct the spelling mistakes very quickly.

wicked_faery

I highly doubt it. & i have a disagreement with tea cause she doesn't even entertain other people's theories

For the love of all the Gods, please stop abusing the word theories.
Theories have evidence backing them up, beliefs and ideas don't need evidence. Theories are scientific in nature, beliefs and ideas aren't. The more you type, the more I'm enclined to agree with Sivirs.

wicked_faery

nor does she give a reason (so far as i can see) as to WHY they are wrong.

Nor, you forgot to add, is she obliged to. When challenging someone's ideas, beliefs and stand points (which is to be expected here, so as to prove that the proponent knows what they're talking about) when they put forward their beliefs, they are under obligation to protect them from their piers. I've had it done to me, I've done it to Nuri, Deoridhe and Tea (see the Metagenetics one for Tea's trial by fire). Drop the ******** "Martyr by proxy" syndrome.
The OP is well capable of taking care of themselves, and your having gotten upset on their behalf makes you look like you're a crusader.

wicked_faery

to me that is being pushy and a bit egotistical.

Ok, learn to speak English. I'm very seriously dyslexic and your "properly formed" sentences are really hard to understand but when you throw the rules of English out the window, I can't understand you at all.

wicked_faery

All i ask is that she at least explain herself & not oppose every single thing she reads in the way that she does.

You mean like on the thread about dealing with parents, where she completely agreed with me, or on the countless threads in M&R? This kind of baseless argument is really making you seem immature. Perhaps you ought to calm down a little when you're upset by something you read before you post. Then go back, re-read it and see if what you saw as offensive was actually offensive as opposed to common sense.

wicked_faery

But why do I bother explaining this to you?

Is that a rhetorical question or can I answer it?

wicked_faery

u look at my typing & see a 10 year old that's on crack.

No, I look at your typing and see a monkey on crack. My seven year old nephew can out type you.

wicked_faery

You're not listening to what i say but rather judging me by how i type.

Considering I contested your case point by point, I'd say that's pretty much wrong.

wicked_faery

which is quite unfair. & i NEVER demanded she leave. i merely suggested if she doesn't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all.

But, and this is the point your missing, by questioning people we get them to solidify their position in our minds. This is constructive.