Spoggly's corner // Try, try again.

[Errol McGillivray]

Hey Spoggly. Thanks for the suggestion with colour.

I notice you like to put a lot of detail in your lineart. That's great, but it can also hurt the level of interest people take in the image.

Here are some tips to keep it detailed, but not tedious:

Use black/white spotting.

Have some solid or mostly solid areas of black/white. It breaks up the tedium of detail lines, by giving the eye places to start, move to, and rest as they move over the image. Take my sig for example. The collar and the sides of the hat make you focus on the head. You can look at the details of the face, then rest your eyes.

Vary line weight.

If you double or thicken your lines, where the object is facing away from the light, it adds some depth. Surface details can be lighter, since they aren't separate forms. This will keep things looking like one piece and not chopped up where you have detail lines.  

[Spoggly]

Errol McGillivray

Hey Spoggly. Thanks for the suggestion with colour.

I notice you like to put a lot of detail in your lineart. That's great, but it can also hurt the level of interest people take in the image.

Here are some tips to keep it detailed, but not tedious:

Use black/white spotting.

Have some solid or mostly solid areas of black/white. It breaks up the tedium of detail lines, by giving the eye places to start, move to, and rest as they move over the image. Take my sig for example. The collar and the sides of the hat make you focus on the head. You can look at the details of the face, then rest your eyes.

Vary line weight.

If you double or thicken your lines, where the object is facing away from the light, it adds some depth. Surface details can be lighter, since they aren't separate forms. This will keep things looking like one piece and not chopped up where you have detail lines.

I've never actually tried varying my line width too much before, or tried black/white spotting, but those are great suggestions, I'll definitely try them out in some future pieces. 3nodding Thank you Errol!  

[Syrella]

Hey again,

Thanks for posting on my page too... xD Welcome to the guild by the way!

I think your art has a nice feel to it overall.

(But of course, there are always things to improve on...)

One main part that stands out to me is that your figures all look a bit static. Maybe stiff is a better word. Ways that you could improve that might be to practice gesture drawing a bit more. Sometime that I find myself doing often is that I use my hand in very tiny, tight strokes. The results it that the image comes out looking a bit too stiff and doesn't flow very well. Try using your entire arm and shoulder when you draw. If you have to, tie something around your wrist when you're in the "sketch" phase to help remind you.

The other main detail that I'd suggest working on is just how to convey volume in an image. Speaking from my own personal experience, it's a very difficult thing to do. But when you start really understanding it, it can make your drawings really pop out and come to life. Suggestions might be to practice drawing simple geometrical shapes like spheres, cylinders, or squares. Ask yourself -- what makes them appear 3D? Typically it's the way they are shaded. And what gives it the illusion of three-dimensionality is the way the highlights appear and the way shadows are cast. Once you get good at that, try changing up the light source. Finally, when you decide you want to work on people again, see if you can't use some of the techniques you've learned to really make it all stand out. ^_^

If you have any questions, feel free to let me know. I may just be spout off nonsense, but I won't know unless you tell me so. <3  

[Sat-AM_Reject]

I like how you have a much better grasp of anatomy than a LOT of artists I've seen here on Gaia (or on DA, or on FA, or in class...)

You could use a little work with it though, but nobody ever doesn't!

I might suggest doing gesture drawings to help loosen up your figures. As someone else stated, they seem stiff.

You seem to have a really heavy western influence, and I'm curious to see how well you would handle trying some fantasy art conventions by using detailed shading and such to convey form rather than lines. I might also be convinced to be much more interested if your lines were much thinner, but that's personal preference.  

[Spoggly]

syrella

Hey again,

Thanks for posting on my page too... xD Welcome to the guild by the way!

I think your art has a nice feel to it overall.

Thank you, I'm liking it here so far. ^^

syrella

One main part that stands out to me is that your figures all look a bit static. Maybe stiff is a better word. Ways that you could improve that might be to practice gesture drawing a bit more. Sometime that I find myself doing often is that I use my hand in very tiny, tight strokes. The results it that the image comes out looking a bit too stiff and doesn't flow very well. Try using your entire arm and shoulder when you draw. If you have to, tie something around your wrist when you're in the "sketch" phase to help remind you.

I've been getting the 'static pose' crit rather frequently, so I'll definitely have to work on that. Thanks for suggesting how to loosen up my lines though. <3

syrella

The other main detail that I'd suggest working on is just how to convey volume in an image. Speaking from my own personal experience, it's a very difficult thing to do. But when you start really understanding it, it can make your drawings really pop out and come to life. Suggestions might be to practice drawing simple geometrical shapes like spheres, cylinders, or squares. Ask yourself -- what makes them appear 3D? Typically it's the way they are shaded. And what gives it the illusion of three-dimensionality is the way the highlights appear and the way shadows are cast. Once you get good at that, try changing up the light source. Finally, when you decide you want to work on people again, see if you can't use some of the techniques you've learned to really make it all stand out. ^_^

If you have any questions, feel free to let me know. I may just be spout off nonsense, but I won't know unless you tell me so. <3

I'll probably try to practice coloring and shading landscape art and some still lifes more often.. I draw humans way too frequently compared to other things.

Thanks for the crits! =)  

[Spoggly]

Sat-AM_Reject

I like how you have a much better grasp of anatomy than a LOT of artists I've seen here on Gaia (or on DA, or on FA, or in class...)

You could use a little work with it though, but nobody ever doesn't!

I might suggest doing gesture drawings to help loosen up your figures. As someone else stated, they seem stiff.

You seem to have a really heavy western influence, and I'm curious to see how well you would handle trying some fantasy art conventions by using detailed shading and such to convey form rather than lines. I might also be convinced to be much more interested if your lines were much thinner, but that's personal preference.

Thank you for your suggestions. I haven't tried other lineart techniques yet but maybe I will at some point in the future (maybe after mastering this current one).  

[Spoggly]

Made some new artworks.. Hope to get your suggestions/crits on these:

1) Lineart



2) One of my colored pieces

 

[mistalina13]

I took a look through your artblog and I really love your use of colors. Your pieces have really nice choices of palettes and they aren't too bright or too harsh.

I'd be curious how you would handle a piece with a full background. You seem to good grasp of lighting and texturing surfaces without it being overwhelming.

In addition to what others have said about posing: I find the expressions in some of your character pieces rather somber as well. It could just be the pose impacting it and the fact that I don't know how these people see their avatar personas.

One of my favorites from your blog is the art of KatraaWien. The pose is very simple, but that expression livens it up. That smirk makes her seem like she's out to make things interesting one way or another.  

[Spoggly]

mistalina13

I took a look through your artblog and I really love your use of colors. Your pieces have really nice choices of palettes and they aren't too bright or too harsh.

I'd be curious how you would handle a piece with a full background. You seem to good grasp of lighting and texturing surfaces without it being overwhelming.

In addition to what others have said about posing: I find the expressions in some of your character pieces rather somber as well. It could just be the pose impacting it and the fact that I don't know how these people see their avatar personas.

One of my favorites from your blog is the art of KatraaWien. The pose is very simple, but that expression livens it up. That smirk makes her seem like she's out to make things interesting one way or another.

Thanks for your suggestions Mistalina! =D

To be honest, I'm afraid of backgrounds. XD I haven't tried really making one because I'm afraid of perspective, and lineweights in the background, etc, etc. But I agree with you, I'm also curious how it will turn out when I try. I probably will sometime this year; I've already started browsing some nature books with a lot of beautiful landscapes. Wish me luck.

And thank you for pointing out the somber expressions! I only realized now that I've been repeating all those serious faces! 0__0 I fell into the trap of artistic comfort and probably drew faces like that as a formula. I'll consciously try to add some variety now.  

[mistalina13]

Your welcome Spoggly. Glad I was helpful.


I'm scared of backgrounds too, which is why mine more often than not are dreadfully simple. With your style you might be able to manage backgrounds that look more like a painting than showing more defined linework at least to start off with.  

[Spoggly]

New WIP. I took the plunge and drew a background. What do you guys think? Crits/redlines/suggestions are all loved. n__n

 

[Syrella]

Good work trying to draw a background! Most of the main details and everything seem okay to me, but what I think you'd benefit most from is studying perspective and also composition.

Composition is important because it helps lend a sense of interest to the piece. You can create nice focal points, allowing the eye to "discover" the details in the piece. It also makes sure that your viewer doesn't get "bogged down" in the wrong spots. It can help both when trying to create a dynamic scene or one that is calm and peaceful. Not to mention most everything in the middle...

Perspective is more the technical side, mainly what happens when objects get farther away from one another, recede to vanishing points, etc. When skillfully employed, it can also be a tool to aid in the piece's overall composition and feel.

What I'd suggest is looking over a few tutorials. Here's a link to one of my favorites...
http://fox-orian.deviantart.com/art/Perspective-Composition-Pt-1-118068853

Even if this is all review to you, looking it over again will certainly help. ^_^ Good luck!  

[Yamiko]

I applaud your efforts to work on backgrounds. They're tough! You are able to add nice details to your work, but I'm confused about the perspective.

I'll give a shot at redlining and write explanations later when I can collect my thoughts.

Some stuff to keep in mind

When drawing, try to focus more on the form of what you are drawing rather than details.
Your eyes can pick up errors if you take a step back at the structure of your drawing without details to distract your eyes.
Redline attempt

On the left in green, I roughly traced over the planes in your drawing. It's good to eyeball how your figures look roughly without the details, just to make sure the forms register correctly from afar. Sometimes your eyes can pick-up something strange when you step back.

Everything in perspective depends on your eye level (aka horizon) as if you were in the scene you're drawing.
I assumed that the horizon/eye level was above the bookshelf because I can see the top surface area of the shelf and the top surface area of the desk. However, the individual shelves and the objects in the shelves, do not reflect the receding effect towards the horizon. If your eye level is above the shelf, then you can see the top areas of each individual shelf too.

Before drawing the individual objects, it's best to plan out the platform the objects are sitting on first. I tried to illustrate this with the purple outlines. Once you have that down, you can make cross sections, as if you had x-ray/CT scan vision, for each individual object sitting on that platform.

Further critiques

-The area of the desk looks off to me. It appears to be too small because the guy's forearm takes up nearly the whole (length?) of the desk. I think it should be bigger because it's also able to accommodate the lady sitting on the desk.

-The guy's knuckles (for the hand resting on the desk) may need more emphasis to suggest that arc where the middle knuckle is the highest.

-I don't think the girl's foot will be showing because I think the top surface of the desk will cover it.

Other notes to add

On the right in blue, I roughly traced over what changes I thought should be changed. It helps to draw things in cubes and cross-sections sometimes to help putting a form in perspective.

Err...sorry if I sound harsh and/or confusing with the critiques, but I hope it helps.

Here is a reference which may help with perspective for the meantime. --> Perspective book link  

[Spoggly]

syrella

Good work trying to draw a background! Most of the main details and everything seem okay to me, but what I think you'd benefit most from is studying perspective and also composition.

Composition is important because it helps lend a sense of interest to the piece. You can create nice focal points, allowing the eye to "discover" the details in the piece. It also makes sure that your viewer doesn't get "bogged down" in the wrong spots. It can help both when trying to create a dynamic scene or one that is calm and peaceful. Not to mention most everything in the middle...

Perspective is more the technical side, mainly what happens when objects get farther away from one another, recede to vanishing points, etc. When skillfully employed, it can also be a tool to aid in the piece's overall composition and feel.

What I'd suggest is looking over a few tutorials. Here's a link to one of my favorites...
http://fox-orian.deviantart.com/art/Perspective-Composition-Pt-1-118068853

Even if this is all review to you, looking it over again will certainly help. ^_^ Good luck!

My perspective's really wonky since I haven't ever tried my hand at it seriously, but that tutorial will send me happily on the way to getting better at it. Thanks for the link syrella! =D (that artist's gallery is amazing as well!)

Yamiko

I applaud your efforts to work on backgrounds. They're tough! You are able to add nice details to your work, but I'm confused about the perspective.

I'll give a shot at redlining and write explanations later when I can collect my thoughts.

Some stuff to keep in mind

When drawing, try to focus more on the form of what you are drawing rather than details.
Your eyes can pick up errors if you take a step back at the structure of your drawing without details to distract your eyes.
Redline attempt

On the left in green, I roughly traced over the planes in your drawing. It's good to eyeball how your figures look roughly without the details, just to make sure the forms register correctly from afar. Sometimes your eyes can pick-up something strange when you step back.

Everything in perspective depends on your eye level (aka horizon) as if you were in the scene you're drawing.
I assumed that the horizon/eye level was above the bookshelf because I can see the top surface area of the shelf and the top surface area of the desk. However, the individual shelves and the objects in the shelves, do not reflect the receding effect towards the horizon. If your eye level is above the shelf, then you can see the top areas of each individual shelf too.

Before drawing the individual objects, it's best to plan out the platform the objects are sitting on first. I tried to illustrate this with the purple outlines. Once you have that down, you can make cross sections, as if you had x-ray/CT scan vision, for each individual object sitting on that platform.

Further critiques

-The area of the desk looks off to me. It appears to be too small because the guy's forearm takes up nearly the whole (length?) of the desk. I think it should be bigger because it's also able to accommodate the lady sitting on the desk.

-The guy's knuckles (for the hand resting on the desk) may need more emphasis to suggest that arc where the middle knuckle is the highest.

-I don't think the girl's foot will be showing because I think the top surface of the desk will cover it.

Other notes to add

On the right in blue, I roughly traced over what changes I thought should be changed. It helps to draw things in cubes and cross-sections sometimes to help putting a form in perspective.

Err...sorry if I sound harsh and/or confusing with the critiques, but I hope it helps.

Here is a reference which may help with perspective for the meantime. --> Perspective book link

Your critique was crystal clear and very helpful Yamiko, thank you! ^^ I especially appreciate the redlining you did. I'll be redoing the sketch as soon as I can with your suggestions in mind.