Stealing

[Bastemhet]

kage no neko

I don't think she said that her friend thought of the stealing as something negative, only she does.

OH. Ok. lol

To the OP: It depends on your friend's ethics. If she believes there is no objective morality then you may just be projecting yours onto her actions. Notice the disconnect?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

TeaDidikai

Painful Accident

I'd think it would make your ritual items useless if you steal them, wouldn't it?

Why would your purview be universal?

Ishtar Shakti

If you wash the item with energy and thus break previous associations then it doesn't hold an imprint of the past energy.

Can I watch you tazer a candle please.

Quote:

You should constantly reaffirm the energy in order to make sure this doesn't happen...

I am so glad your privilege allows you to speak for all of magic and trump my cultures traditions.

Quote:

Am imprints power is directly proportionate to both the will and the intent so both would have to be factored in order to understand what actually would be imbued in the candle.

I would love to see your justification for this.

Sure... let me just break those nasty binds for you. Let the candle MELT! Usually psychic energy isn't as dense as physical objects thankfully and itsn't congruent with the actual physical structure of the item so getting rid of the binds aren't as difficult as melting and reshaping the candle. This would work as well though.

Its observation... Have you forgot you've done a spell and still seen it in affect at the same level of strength months latter? Usually they fade. Of course there are ways around this. Just generally speaking unless you know what your doing and you don't have the help of a being that knows more then you do this is what happens. Consistently.

Do you have any conjecture that actually goes against this? Rather then you know hollow sarcasm? I don't get why you seem soo mildly hostile and sarcastic on a consistent basis... or maybe I am misreading your sense of humor. I'm really too tired to try though.

Justification... Liken will to pressure or power or inertia. Intent is what gives will direction or shape. If you do not shape the current of energy then it won't have any affect. Like sound has no meaning unless you give it shape and sound wouldn't exist unless you had the will to speak it... etc. etc. etc.  

[TeaDidikai]

Ishtar Shakti

Its observation... Have you forgot you've done a spell and still seen it in affect at the same level of strength months latter?

Nope. But that's because I have an excellent memory.

Quote:

Just generally speaking unless you know what your doing and you don't have the help of a being that knows more then you do this is what happens. Consistently.

Again, stop arguing from ignorance.

Quote:

Do you have any conjecture that actually goes against this? Rather then you know hollow sarcasm? I don't get why you seem soo mildly hostile and sarcastic on a consistent basis... or maybe I am misreading your sense of humor. I'm really too tired to try though.

I don't approve of your racism. It isn't sarcasm. It's frustration at your arrogance and habit of demeaning others through your thoughtlessness.

Quote:

Intent is what gives will direction or shape.

Your proof by assertion is getting really old.
Not all traditions rely on will working. rolleyes

Quote:

Like sound has no meaning unless you give it shape and sound wouldn't exist unless you had the will to speak it... etc. etc. etc.

You keep making these assertions.

There are a number of traditions that say you're full of s**t. Traditions with sacred language concepts that, within those traditions, state that gods gifted words containing mysteries within them to mankind.

Norse, Irish and Hebrew languages come to mind.  

[patch99329]

TeaDidikai

Ishtar Shakti

Do you have any conjecture that actually goes against this? Rather then you know hollow sarcasm? I don't get why you seem soo mildly hostile and sarcastic on a consistent basis... or maybe I am misreading your sense of humor. I'm really too tired to try though.

I don't approve of your racism. It isn't sarcasm. It's frustration at your arrogance and habit of demeaning others through your thoughtlessness.

I think calling racism on this is a little harsh. Ok, very harsh.

She's making a stupid a** generalization, but it does not suggest she is a racist.  

[Alice Morbid]

I really don't find stealing acceptable. But, I've got many friends who steal to get what they NEED. In my opinion, it wouldn't make a ritual item useless at all.. If it's to be charged with positive energy or whatever. Think about it. Some people are thrilled about stealing. Some people are very happy when they do it. The positive energy could be immense based on that individual's belief. They could be thinking very happily about how they got away with it, they saved money, they risked themselves for their god(s), being reminded of how great it is to be free and alive. But. That's my opinion.. Although, I would never steal. I tried.. but couldn't. I put it all back ^^; It's just not in me to do something like that because it's happened to me a great deal of times. It doesn't feel good to lose your possessions when you already don't own very much. Even if you don't like material things. It sucks to lose what you've worked for.. and I'd much rather spread love than sadness. I rambled a bit, but, I think I may have gotten my point across  

[Ultramarine Violet]

Sophist

TeaDidikai

Sophist

If she did think stealing was wrong, why do it in the first place?

Needed/wanted the item. For the thrill of it. Any number of reasons.

There are those reasons. And then there's the consequences of adopting an ethical system to do magic and then actively negating it. She would have had to consciously do what she deemed a negative act knowing that it would affect her spellworking. confused Which leaves me confuzzled. I mean why bother to adopt a system that she doesn't seem to really believe in in the first place? Or maybe I'm missing something here?

That's assuming that all magic requires some kind of ethical system to be involved. Which, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't.

On-topic - The person doing the stealing may be mis-applying something she's read somewhere. Or she's read something written by someone who couldn't explain it properly, or didn't know what they were talking about. I know that I've read of some herbs that they're more effective for their respective ritual uses if they're stolen. Maybe it's something like that.

Off-topic edit: Why do I always feel like I spam the hell out of this community whenever I come in here? sweatdrop  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

Cyrus the Elder

kage no neko

TeaDidikai

Can I watch you tazer a candle please.

I have no clue what this is supposed to mean, but it sounds like fun.. ninja

It doesn't sound like fun to me! gonk

Tazers are simple ways to direct energy.

Though I suppose by Ishsha's reasoning, holding the object above the ground would work too, via cleansing with potential energy over electric.

Maybe we could just throw the item in question and cleanse it via kenetic energy.

Maybe it's the sloth vice coming out, but I'd just put it on a table. Let the table do the holding.
It only takes a couple of joules to knock it off the edge, but I guarantee you (E = 1/2mv^2) that it'll have a lot more energy by the time it hits the ground. Potential energy doesn't require you to hold it, you're just being wasteful with your energy cleansing. Wasting all that energy in your hand when you could trust in the nature of reality to provide it for you.
Next you'll tell me you perform your electric cleansing by spinning the magnets rather than stripping wires from electric appliances* and licking the object you want to cleanse. Or that you you create a sun rather than lighting a match for your thermal energy. Or that you hand make atoms for chemical energy rather than burning some paper.


*Wing REALLY advises VERY STRONGLY against this. Obvious satire should be obvious.  

[Satyr Prince]

Ultramarine Violet

That's assuming that all magic requires some kind of ethical system to be involved. Which, to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't.

exactly! the magic i practice has no "ethics" so to speak. if a customer wants a hex or a love spell, i will make it for them.  

[CuAnnan]

Ishtar Shakti

Usually psychic energy isn't as dense as physical objects

Energy is the ability to do work.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Any use other than this is wrong.
Energy does not have density in the same way matter does.
Matter density is due to the mass/volume parity of properties.
Energy has no mass.
Ergo energy has no physical density.  

[Fiddlers Green]

CuAnnan

Ishtar Shakti

Usually psychic energy isn't as dense as physical objects

Energy is the ability to do work.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Any use other than this is wrong.
Energy does not have density in the same way matter does.
Matter density is due to the mass/volume parity of properties.
Energy has no mass.
Ergo energy has no physical density.

Incidentally why I use the term Vis, which might imply matter (or rather, configured atomic bonds) or energy. There is a long explanation of likeness and covalent bond energy application, however, that is very long winded.
I wonder where Ether falls on that scale, Poe, you reading? ninja

On topic, stealing is dangerous in an immediate sense as it's (usually) sorta illegal. Beyound that, I hate using other people's tools when propperly handed over. Snagging something from someone who may have been in the middle of using it for something... well, that worries me. Like stealing a cog for my clock from the locking mechanisms of a nuclear reactor. It just seems like it might have some residue, or what goes wrong from my interference may not be worth the expediency of the theft. Again, I strongly suggest knowing what one is disturbing and how it will react before disturbing it. sweatdrop  

[Maze]

Fiddlers Green

CuAnnan

Ishtar Shakti

Usually psychic energy isn't as dense as physical objects

Energy is the ability to do work.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Any use other than this is wrong.
Energy does not have density in the same way matter does.
Matter density is due to the mass/volume parity of properties.
Energy has no mass.
Ergo energy has no physical density.

Incidentally why I use the term Vis, which might imply matter (or rather, configured atomic bonds) or energy. There is a long explanation of likeness and covalent bond energy application, however, that is very long winded.
I wonder where Ether falls on that scale, Poe, you reading? ninja

Where would I be able to find a long explanation of likeness and covalent bond energy application?

Or rather, one that explains it the way you mean it. Or can I just look up the covalent bond energy application and then attempt to attach it to the subject?

*has a Google*  

[Recursive Paradox]

Fiddlers Green

CuAnnan

Ishtar Shakti

Usually psychic energy isn't as dense as physical objects

Energy is the ability to do work.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Any use other than this is wrong.
Energy does not have density in the same way matter does.
Matter density is due to the mass/volume parity of properties.
Energy has no mass.
Ergo energy has no physical density.

Incidentally why I use the term Vis, which might imply matter (or rather, configured atomic bonds) or energy. There is a long explanation of likeness and covalent bond energy application, however, that is very long winded.

I had heard some things from some folk who know more about physics than me that matter could be describe as a form of energy (i.e. a wave where the wavelength is so small as to make it solid) but I dunno how much truth is to that.

Quote:

I wonder where Ether falls on that scale, Poe, you reading? ninja

The Ether is an umbrella term for all spiritual and material energy and matter and other stuff. Literally all of it. Generally Ether is used as a catchphrase for just the Spiritual Reflection of the Mirror (energy and matter and stuff of the spiritual side) cuz well, we're used to the physical so we tend to take it for granted (which really is kind of stupid, corporeality is fleeting.)

The stuff on that end can be energy (which is exactly the same as energy here), I theorize matter (formative things that aren't the ability to do work and have given properties they follow and does appear to have something resembling mass) and ...something else. I don't have a name for it. It's a base sort of interconnective "tissue" that makes up reality on that side. It has no mass, no density (although it does possess other properties) Only it isn't just ability to do work, it uses energy, converts it (down and up) and can be adjusted and changed through energy channeling in ways that boggle me. I seriously am at a loss to describe it. *shrug*

And my experiences are iffy at best on this weird stuff. More UPG testing is needed. I also have only small amounts of evidence of matter being on the spiritual side, it's possible that I'm confusing this weird stuff for matter or vice versa.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Maze

Where would I be able to find a long explanation of likeness and covalent bond energy application?

Or rather, one that explains it the way you mean it. Or can I just look up the covalent bond energy application and then attempt to attach it to the subject?

*has a Google*

Covalent bonds may be a good place to start. Ionic bonds are already sorta a type of energy anyway. What with the Electron donation rather than sharing.
I'm loathe to (but probably will eventually) post a ~grimaces at the term~ Magic Theorey thread. It has very little to do with religion, and thus is at best tangentially appropriate to the guild. However, it comes up enough that I likely aught info dump it.

Recursive Paradox

I had heard some things from some folk who know more about physics than me that matter could be describe as a form of energy (i.e. a wave where the wavelength is so small as to make it solid) but I dunno how much truth is to that.

That is a very good summation. Like all summations, it is incomplete, but that is probably the best space to explanation ratio for this moment.

Recursive Paradox

The Ether is an umbrella term for all spiritual and material energy and matter and other stuff. Literally all of it. Generally Ether is used as a catchphrase for just the Spiritual Reflection of the Mirror (energy and matter and stuff of the spiritual side) cuz well, we're used to the physical so we tend to take it for granted (which really is kind of stupid, corporeality is fleeting.)

The stuff on that end can be energy (which is exactly the same as energy here), I theorize matter (formative things that aren't the ability to do work and have given properties they follow and does appear to have something resembling mass) and ...something else. I don't have a name for it. It's a base sort of interconnective "tissue" that makes up reality on that side. It has no mass, no density (although it does possess other properties) Only it isn't just ability to do work, it uses energy, converts it (down and up) and can be adjusted and changed through energy channeling in ways that boggle me. I seriously am at a loss to describe it. *shrug*

And my experiences are iffy at best on this weird stuff. More UPG testing is needed. I also have only small amounts of evidence of matter being on the spiritual side, it's possible that I'm confusing this weird stuff for matter or vice versa.

Thank you. 3nodding

If anyone wants more details about this off-topicy stuff from me, please PM, or create a topic that is directly regarding it and send me there. I don't mean to be terse, but I want to keep sorta on task here. sweatdrop  

[CuAnnan]

Recursive Paradox

I had heard some things from some folk who know more about physics than me that matter could be describe as a form of energy (i.e. a wave where the wavelength is so small as to make it solid) but I dunno how much truth is to that.

E=mc^2
There's the Higgs field, but that's about it.  

[Recursive Paradox]

CuAnnan

Recursive Paradox

I had heard some things from some folk who know more about physics than me that matter could be describe as a form of energy (i.e. a wave where the wavelength is so small as to make it solid) but I dunno how much truth is to that.

E=mc^2
There's the Higgs field, but that's about it.

Okies.

Fiddlers Green

That is a very good summation. Like all summations, it is incomplete, but that is probably the best space to explanation ratio for this moment.

Twitter has forced me to learn the power of concise speech. XD