Strange experience?

[Recursive Paradox]

maenad nuri

....why on Earth would she find "Roma" to be the offensive term?

I would hazard a guess that she isn't actually Rroma.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Collowrath

I think either you or she got some wires crossed somewhere. Preferring "gypsy" over "Rroma" is like me saying "Oh, I'm not a Slovak, we prefer honky."

Rroma is their name for themselves, along with the various names of the numerous nations that comprise the Rroma. If she were Rroma, I can't see why she would be offended by using her own language's name for herself. confused

Many times people are offended by strange things or prefer to be called a different name. I hate it personally if a person tries to address me in Yiddish when they discover I'm Jewish. I'm not a Germanic Jew, I'm a Scottish Jew. Yiddish is not the language of my people, though it is a valid language for some Jewish people. I dislike it when people use the term Semitic to describe me. I am not a Middle Eastern Jew either. I am a Scottish Jew. I am not offended by people using different terms, it's just not accurate and not my ideal. It's not a big deal to me, but it is to some people. Many people would probably be offended at the fact a dear friend of mine who is Japanese/English(biracial), refers to his race as "Jolly o' J*p" in informal settings, as it insults both stereotypes of British and uses a very insulting word for Japanese persons, which he himself personally thinks is a fine word to use, and prefers it to "People of the Rising Sun" as a teacher once referred to his race as in an attempt to not offend. Many people of European ancestry people dislike the term "White" and prefer Caucasian, or vv. I don't know if she speaks any languages other than English fluently, and it is is quite possible her ancestors upon coming to America, only spoke English to their children. I know many Scottish people who are offended to be called Gaelic, as they are Scots, not Gaels, and the same is true of the Irish. Many people of African Ancestry are very offended by the n word, even though that is the term that many of their people use, and have used to describe themselves, due to the many racist idiots who have used the word historically, and many prefer to reclaim what is generally considered an insult. However, if the g word is considered offensive in this guild, I will refrain from using it. It goes against those I know personally, and their preferences, but people do have different preferences for words to describe their culture. I mention my ancestor in regards to my family history, and I use the term he used, which, if it's offensive now, you must remember, he was writing over a hundred years ago. Back then, "negro" was a polite term for people of African Ancestry, and slavery was still legal in the US. The world has changed, and if the debate over the gword happened quite a while ago, many people may be trying to reclaim the word. The key point to the story is that my great grandmother wore an ankh that her ancestor had gotten from a random person in traveling in Europe, which the whole point of my 2nd post is to give a background to my family's religious histories.

It is also entirely possible that my peer isn't raised in the Rroma tradition, or knows very little about it(I doubt the latter more than the former.). She was raised in America, living in one place her whole life, and without a specific religion, and lives basically as a typical American teen. Does that make her not a Rroma person, even if it is her family's culture? Does it make me not a Jew because I don't go to temple and don't eat gelite fish?

Other than this debate over phrasing or wording of a culture, can anyone give me advice on who this goddess might actually be? Or at least some ideas so I can research each of them? I am asking for advice, not to be told I imagined her to exist, or that a specific goddess who is a hawk would not want me to worship her without telling me who she is. That is not helping me with my religious "quest" for the best religion for me. I come here asking for help, and advice. Not to be only judged on a choice of wording that I presumed was both correct and polite for most Rroma people(Based on those I know in person, and their reactions to teachers using words that they found rude or offensive.) in the modern world, but was also used historically in my ancestor's journal and letters.  

[Collowrath]

We're well aware that not everyone of ethnicity X is offended by racial slurs. Some people are desensitized to it. That doesn't make using the word okay, though. The issue that was taken with the friend of yours was that you told us she was offended by being called the Rroma's own word for themselves and preferred to be called by a foreign exonym that is more often than not used as a slur. I don't see this as much in the US, but certainly in huge swaths of Europe, "gypsy" and its local variations are an insult of choice and Rroma go nowhere alone lest they be murdered for having been born.

Quote:

It is also entirely possible that my peer isn't raised in the Rroma tradition, or knows very little about it(I doubt the latter more than the former.). She was raised in America, living in one place her whole life, and without a specific religion, and lives basically as a typical American teen. Does that make her not a Rroma person, even if it is her family's culture?

Where she was raised, the language she speaks, and the religion she has is of very little importance here. Admittance in Rroma culture hinges on participation within that culture and acceptance by pre-existing members of that culture. Rroma heritage does not make her Rroma. Being American and living within contemporary American culture wouldn't make her not Rroma.

Quote:

Other than this debate over phrasing or wording of a culture, can anyone give me advice on who this goddess might actually be?

I actually wouldn't know off the top of my head, but I can poke through some things and point you to some resources as soon as I get time. They'll be Hellenic in nature, if you don't mind. smile

Quote:

Not to be only judged on a choice of wording that I presumed was both correct and polite for most Rroma people(Based on those I know in person, and their reactions to teachers using words that they found rude or offensive.) in the modern world, but was also used historically in my ancestor's journal and letters.

Keep in mind though, that Rroma are not exactly a visible minority in the US in the same way GLBT, Latinos, Blacks, etc are. That makes them ripe for the picking for some people (and some families) to make themselves more interesting. For instance, I know a woman who calls herself "Hungarian gypsy," because her family is from "Eastern Europe and stuff." I also know people who call themselves Romany because they're from Romania (and even use Gypsy and Romanian as synonyms) - their connection to either heritage is so distant and mal-understood that they don't even know that there is a difference.

Not to mention, I have family in older generations who regularly have used our native word for Rroma people. I just recently found that aside from its unpleasant connotations, the etymology itself is linked to words such as "liar." Just because older generations of my family saw fit to use the word, does not make it okay for me to use it, now I know better.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Collowrath-I'd love the resources! Hellenic is fine, I have absolutely no idea what pantheon she is part of, if any, and it would be helpful to get any sort of idea about her.

I doubt she is lying about being Rroma, though it appears we have a slightly different definition of what it means to be part of a culture. To each their own about the terms, and teachers have often used the word Roma to describe people of this ethnicity, which has lead to her being offended when we were in school together. Her great grandmother was an American Immigrant, in an era where it was quite odd to state that you were even Jewish, so I take it it must have been a moderately important part of her culture. My great grandmother changed her name to make it sound less Jewish and less Scottish, as was common in the era, and many other Jewish people did the same. Jan was changed to John or Ian, Macsangetaggartfergeusendotyirkpeiettezitte(One example. I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce it, and it does not at all look like a standard Scottish name, or any sort of standard name at all. Only one ancestor chose to spell their name that way, once, and it is most likely that it was a joke name made up to annoy census takers. I am by no means claiming that that is a standard spelling of anyone's name, since the name also pops up as Taggart Fergusen.)(And various other very strange spelled names. I'm doing as rough a writing of one of my ancestor's names as I can persume it would be in standard Roman letters would be changed to Taggart(Which makes tracking family history very hard, as it looks to be a lot more incest than there was, due to name changes) was changed to McTaggert in some cases, or Mac-s'Taggert, and things such as that were very common in the 1700s-1800s. My family was not VERY openly Jewish till the 1940s or so, and was quiet about it without lying for about a hundred years before that. )

It may have been easiest for a non native English speaker to refer to herself as the English word for her culture, and would have likely been considered the polite term. Many terms are found to be offensive, and I know many gay people call themselves, and prefer to be called by "F*ggot" as their term for their sexuality, or queer more commonly. If a Rroma person here prefers to be refered to by such, I will refer to them as such, but I will not discount what people IRL have told me they prefer to be called by, for their ethnic background. The Rroma in the US are not discriminated against, and that could be why the difference in which term is offensive or not to each person, depending on where they live. If it is used as a hateful term in a country, where a person of an ethnicity lives, it would be rare for them to use it to describe themselves. However, that does not change the fact that my Rroma/Gword friend, as she thinks of herself and considers herself raised roughly in, or at least with a grandmother who was raised in the culture, prefers the gword to Rroma. If people on this particular guild prefer the word Rroma to gword, I shall use that word here, and ask each Rroma person who I meet which they prefer if it comes up in conversation. If they prefer the R word to the G word, I'll use Rroma, and vv. I've known people to be offended at many things, and I ask the same phrasing wise of my friends of African Ancestry, as it does vary person to person.  

[Recursive Paradox]

Orchidsandfractals

I doubt she is lying about being Rroma, though it appears we have a slightly different definition of what it means to be part of a culture.

I wouldn't say she's lying without specific reason to believe so. I was more suggesting that she is grossly misinformed or wrong.

I haven't met many folk that lie about stuff like this. More that they simply didn't know and sometimes defend their ignorance because it isn't fun to be called out.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Recursive Paradox

Orchidsandfractals

I doubt she is lying about being Rroma, though it appears we have a slightly different definition of what it means to be part of a culture.

I wouldn't say she's lying without specific reason to believe so. I was more suggesting that she is grossly misinformed or wrong.

I haven't met many folk that lie about stuff like this. More that they simply didn't know and sometimes defend their ignorance because it isn't fun to be called out.

I'm just suggesting it's more probable that she does know about her culture to some degree(More so than many Americans do, at least. I know many Scottish American people who think that England is the same as Scotland.), and prefers a different term. There are people of African Ancestry who prefer the n word to African American(and many who will be VERY offended if you use the n word.), or who prefer "Black"(Which is often considered a racial slur by others, as one does not have a black skin tone, but a "brown" skin tone), and they know about their culture, and how the n word was used to perscute people. I prefer the word Pict(A racial slur at one point, the "tattoed people".) to Caladonians or some varient thereafter,even though Pict is not the word used by my people at any time. I prefer Jew to Isreali personally. I prefer white to Cacuasian and many people prefer the latter. My peer objected to a teacher using the word Roma, even though she knew what it meant(As she told the teacher to use the g word instead.), which to me speaks not of ignorance, but of a personal preference for a word to describe a culture. The word v****a orginally meant a sheaf for a sword. Not exacly a complement, and the c word meant that part of women's anatomy in other cultures, without any particularly insulting meaning attached. Now, the meanings have switched, but some feminists prefer the c word, despite the historical negative connotation to it. What is a word of hate to one person of a culture may be a term of endearment to a person of the same culture.  

[Kuroiban]

Orchidsandfractals

Recursive Paradox

Orchidsandfractals

I doubt she is lying about being Rroma, though it appears we have a slightly different definition of what it means to be part of a culture.

I wouldn't say she's lying without specific reason to believe so. I was more suggesting that she is grossly misinformed or wrong.

I haven't met many folk that lie about stuff like this. More that they simply didn't know and sometimes defend their ignorance because it isn't fun to be called out.

I'm just suggesting it's more probable that she does know about her culture to some degree(More so than many Americans do, at least. I know many Scottish American people who think that England is the same as Scotland.), and prefers a different term. There are people of African Ancestry who prefer the n word to African American(and many who will be VERY offended if you use the n word.), or who prefer "Black"(Which is often considered a racial slur by others, as one does not have a black skin tone, but a "brown" skin tone), and they know about their culture, and how the n word was used to perscute people. I prefer the word Pict(A racial slur at one point, the "tattoed people".) to Caladonians or some varient thereafter,even though Pict is not the word used by my people at any time. I prefer Jew to Isreali personally. I prefer white to Cacuasian and many people prefer the latter. My peer objected to a teacher using the word Roma, even though she knew what it meant(As she told the teacher to use the g word instead.), which to me speaks not of ignorance, but of a personal preference for a word to describe a culture. The word v****a orginally meant a sheaf for a sword. Not exacly a complement, and the c word meant that part of women's anatomy in other cultures, without any particularly insulting meaning attached. Now, the meanings have switched, but some feminists prefer the c word, despite the historical negative connotation to it. What is a word of hate to one person of a culture may be a term of endearment to a person of the same culture.

While your explanation and statement is well thought out, I'm going to have to call Occam's Razor on this one.

While it is possible that your friend prefurs a pejorative term to the simple correct term, it just doesn't seem likely.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Kuroiban

Orchidsandfractals

Recursive Paradox

Orchidsandfractals

I doubt she is lying about being Rroma, though it appears we have a slightly different definition of what it means to be part of a culture.

I wouldn't say she's lying without specific reason to believe so. I was more suggesting that she is grossly misinformed or wrong.

I haven't met many folk that lie about stuff like this. More that they simply didn't know and sometimes defend their ignorance because it isn't fun to be called out.

I'm just suggesting it's more probable that she does know about her culture to some degree(More so than many Americans do, at least. I know many Scottish American people who think that England is the same as Scotland.), and prefers a different term. There are people of African Ancestry who prefer the n word to African American(and many who will be VERY offended if you use the n word.), or who prefer "Black"(Which is often considered a racial slur by others, as one does not have a black skin tone, but a "brown" skin tone), and they know about their culture, and how the n word was used to perscute people. I prefer the word Pict(A racial slur at one point, the "tattoed people".) to Caladonians or some varient thereafter,even though Pict is not the word used by my people at any time. I prefer Jew to Isreali personally. I prefer white to Cacuasian and many people prefer the latter. My peer objected to a teacher using the word Roma, even though she knew what it meant(As she told the teacher to use the g word instead.), which to me speaks not of ignorance, but of a personal preference for a word to describe a culture. The word v****a orginally meant a sheaf for a sword. Not exacly a complement, and the c word meant that part of women's anatomy in other cultures, without any particularly insulting meaning attached. Now, the meanings have switched, but some feminists prefer the c word, despite the historical negative connotation to it. What is a word of hate to one person of a culture may be a term of endearment to a person of the same culture.

While your explanation and statement is well thought out, I'm going to have to call Occam's Razor on this one.

While it is possible that your friend prefurs a pejorative term to the simple correct term, it just doesn't seem likely.

To each their own. It's for you to decide if my peer is a "real" Rroma or not in your minds. I personally consider her to be one, but if a person here does not, it's their own choice. People prefer strange terms all the time. I am simply trying to explain why she might prefer that term, based on what she's told me and logic filling in any blank spots. The fact is, she prefers that term, and I do know for a fact that in the era when my ancestor wrote, he was NOT trying to be racist by refering to whoever gave him an ankh as a gword. It was the common mode of speech at the time. Of course, my grandmother thinks the word "negro" is the politest term to use for African people(Or of African Ancestry), so I suppose modes of speech do change, and in some parts of the world, it is the least offensive word to use. My peer has not faced discrimination due to her culture, which is probably why she uses that term. I have also listed numerous cases of people prefering to style their ethnicity with what may be considered an insult to many. Must I list more?

Also, Occam's razor is that the simplest explaintion wins, not the most correct(Given current science) explantion wins.

3rdly, this thread is NOT about the gword and modes of speech, it is about hawk goddess and goddesses that have been known to appear as such, as that is WHAT I am asking for advice about. Not what my peers prefer to style themselves as and find to be the least offensive term, or what my ancestor wrote in a journal years ago. I mention my ancestor's religions and such so that if there is a closed group, I can know if I qualify for it or not. I mention how my ancestor obtained an ankh as a backstory as to where my great grandmother got her necklace that she wore daily.  

[TeaDidikai]

Orchidsandfractals

See above. I do not claim to know the means of the Goddess in contacting me.

You're skipping a step. What evidence do you have that it is a goddess and not a delusion. Your responses have all hinged on an argument from ignorance- you cannot fathom that you would be inclined to delude yourself, thus you have not deluded yourself.

That really doesn't cut it.

Quote:

Just as we humans do not understand each other, there is no way to know what another supernatural being may think of me, or why she would contact me. Perhaps she is looking for converts. Christianity often uses the idea of their God contacting people to save them from sin and hell.

Please stop confusing the initentions of Christians with the intentions of their god.

It's a Strawman at best.

Further, your inability to understand others does not extend to others inability to understand each other.

Quote:

Then I would like to know which Goddess it is so that if I research and discover her, I know it is not she(There aren't exactly a lot of Hawk Goddesses out there.), and do not insult said goddess by worshiping her if I am unclean, and insult my own Goddess by mistaking her for another.

You can't research her without being aware of the fact you are unclean. So really, it's a moot point.

Quote:

Certainly, but it doesn't make me less of a Jew, or deny that I was raised to some degree in a Jewish religion, abit very poorly. I am a Jewish person, of the Jewish faith, of my own interepretation of it, regardless of if that means to worship a false idol. The Black Mass in Catholicism would be similar to a Jewish pagan. I am choosing to worship a different Goddess than the Judaochristian God.

Stop. For a start, any perversion of the Mass would warrant excommunication. You are either not theologically Jewish but remain culturally so, or you are theologically Jewish and are in breech of your covenant.

Quite frankly, I tend to take a very dim view of people who break covenants simply because they feel like it.

Quote:

She considers herself to be a Rroma, and was the person who told me of that term and how she personally finds it offensive, as it's attempt to be too PC as opposed to what she actually is.

Then she isn't Rroma. Period. The word has nothing to do with Political Correctness. It has to do with linguistics. If she doesn't get it, my suspicion is that she's about as Rroma as your left testicle.

Quote:

From my understanding, it's similar to the difference between African American and black for people of African Ancestry in the USA in which term is used, except she finds Rroma to be much more offensive than African American is considered by people of African Ancestry in the US. If you so strongly object to what I have been told by people who consider themselves part of a culture, even if they are foremost American(Just as I am American, then Scottish, then Jewish culturally.), please explain what you think being "Rroma"(I have only seen it spelled Roma, but I will presume that that is what you consider to be the correct spelling.), is about. She is more so a Roma than I am a Jew, because she has more practicing ancestors who have been involved more heavily in the culture than my ancestors have been in mainstream Jewish culture.

My suspicion is that she isn't Rroma at all. Everything you are stating about her perspective directly contradicts the very essence of the cultural laws we abide.

I'd fathom she's actually less Rroma than you are a Jew based on your own words. After all, being a Jew is culturally expressed differently in different regions- as you address below with the comments about Yiddish. If your friend has opted to be American above and beyond adhering to the purity laws, then she's as unclean as you are.

Orchidsandfractals

Many times people are offended by strange things or prefer to be called a different name. I hate it personally if a person tries to address me in Yiddish when they discover I'm Jewish. I'm not a Germanic Jew, I'm a Scottish Jew.

You're mistaken, in so much that being Scottish is about living in Scotland. Your ancestors may have spent time in Scotland, but that doesn't make them culturally Scottish.

Quote:

I dislike it when people use the term Semitic to describe me.

Semitic is a description of the ancestry. If you are Jewish, then your lineage is that of Shem's.

Quote:

I am not a Middle Eastern Jew either.

This has nothing to do with the fact that the term Semitic is accurate.

Quote:

I am not offended by people using different terms, it's just not accurate and not my ideal.

It's perfectly accurate. confused

Quote:

Many people of European ancestry people dislike the term "White" and prefer Caucasian

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually come from the area around the Caucasus Mountains myself.

Quote:

I don't know if she speaks any languages other than English fluently, and it is is quite possible her ancestors upon coming to America, only spoke English to their children.

That would mean she isn't Rroma, just FYI.

Quote:

I know many Scottish people who are offended to be called Gaelic, as they are Scots, not Gaels,

Which is most fair.

Quote:

Many people of African Ancestry are very offended by the n word, even though that is the term that many of their people use, and have used to describe themselves, due to the many racist idiots who have used the word historically, and many prefer to reclaim what is generally considered an insult.

One cannot reclaim that which one never owned.

Quote:

However, if the g word is considered offensive in this guild, I will refrain from using it. It goes against those I know personally, and their preferences, but people do have different preferences for words to describe their culture.

By the words you have used, what your friend is amounts to another pretender. Not unlike Buckland.

Quote:

I mention my ancestor in regards to my family history, and I use the term he used, which, if it's offensive now, you must remember, he was writing over a hundred years ago. Back then, "negro" was a polite term for people of African Ancestry, and slavery was still legal in the US. The world has changed, and if the debate over the gword happened quite a while ago, many people may be trying to reclaim the word.

Note above how one cannot reclaim that which they did not own to begin with.

Quote:

It is also entirely possible that my peer isn't raised in the Rroma tradition, or knows very little about it(I doubt the latter more than the former.). She was raised in America, living in one place her whole life, and without a specific religion, and lives basically as a typical American teen. Does that make her not a Rroma person, even if it is her family's culture? Does it make me not a Jew because I don't go to temple and don't eat gelite fish?

For her, yes. That's exactly what it makes her. It makes her not Rroma, but someone who may have had Ancestors who were Rroma.

For you- I cannot comment. I'm not as familiar with cultural concepts amongst the tribes of Israel.

Quote:

Other than this debate over phrasing or wording of a culture, can anyone give me advice on who this goddess might actually be? Or at least some ideas so I can research each of them? I am asking for advice, not to be told I imagined her to exist, or that a specific goddess who is a hawk would not want me to worship her without telling me who she is. That is not helping me with my religious "quest" for the best religion for me.

Part of your problem is that you're going about your seeking in a flawed way. You're not critically analyzing the situation so you have no clue if there is any goddess contacting you to begin with.

You want advice: Confirm it is a goddess and not a delusion before you start trying to figure out who it is.

Orchidsandfractals

I doubt she is lying about being Rroma, though it appears we have a slightly different definition of what it means to be part of a culture.

Hi. The big issue here is that non-Rroma don't get to define what it is to be part of our culture. Well, they try, and thus they turn themselves into Racists who rely on their privilege to assert their position over that of the people in question. ~shrugs~

Quote:

To each their own about the terms, and teachers have often used the word Roma to describe people of this ethnicity, which has lead to her being offended when we were in school together. Her great grandmother was an American Immigrant, in an era where it was quite odd to state that you were even Jewish, so I take it it must have been a moderately important part of her culture

Unless of course she's a liar. Or maybe her great grandmother was.

Quote:

If a Rroma person here prefers to be refered to by such, I will refer to them as such, but I will not discount what people IRL have told me they prefer to be called by, for their ethnic background.

You also seem to be more than a little unwilling to question your friend's entitlement to the term.

Quote:

The Rroma in the US are not discriminated against,

WHAT THE ******** DO YOU KNOW ABOUT IT!?

I will give you one chance at this. Take that unfounded asinine claim back.

Quote:

and that could be why the difference in which term is offensive or not to each person, depending on where they live. If it is used as a hateful term in a country, where a person of an ethnicity lives, it would be rare for them to use it to describe themselves. However, that does not change the fact that my Rroma/Gword friend, as she thinks of herself and considers herself raised roughly in, or at least with a grandmother who was raised in the culture, prefers the gword to Rroma. If people on this particular guild prefer the word Rroma to gword, I shall use that word here, and ask each Rroma person who I meet which they prefer if it comes up in conversation. If they prefer the R word to the G word, I'll use Rroma, and vv. I've known people to be offended at many things, and I ask the same phrasing wise of my friends of African Ancestry, as it does vary person to person.

~chuckles~ I swear... every time I see this kind of s**t it takes away a little bit of the hope I have for humanity.

Your friend could well be wrong. You haven't checked. You likely wouldn't be able to- since it would be dependent on you being able to use familial contacts in order to verify her claims. Since she is the only one you know- this is clearly not possible for you.

Recursive Paradox

I haven't met many folk that lie about stuff like this. More that they simply didn't know and sometimes defend their ignorance because it isn't fun to be called out.

I've met people who lie about it. They do it because it's "cool" and "exotic". rolleyes

Orchidsandfractals

My peer objected to a teacher using the word Roma, even though she knew what it meant(As she told the teacher to use the g word instead.), which to me speaks not of ignorance, but of a personal preference for a word to describe a culture.

Since it completely ignores the language, it smacks of ignorance to me.

Nuri for example knows of people who call themselves by the slur. And if I were to ever meet them, I would likely have a long conversation about their choice. That said, to my knowledge they do not consider the term Rroma offensive.

Orchidsandfractals

It's for you to decide if my peer is a "real" Rroma or not in your minds.

No. It's not. It's for us, the Rroma to decide. Based on your description, I say no. I say she is resting on the same sense of entitlement that so many Americans fall on when they claim to be Irish, Scottish or any other nationality.

Quote:

I personally consider her to be one,

How charmingly racist of you.
I'm glad to know that your expert opinion on what it is to be Rroma takes precedence over our culture.

Quote:

I do know for a fact that in the era when my ancestor wrote, he was NOT trying to be racist by refering to whoever gave him an ankh as a gword.

I'm curious- how do you know this for a fact. What detailed explanation about the culture and the person who provided the item to him do you think excludes his comment from possible racism?

Quote:

Also, Occam's razor is that the simplest explaintion wins, not the most correct(Given current science) explantion wins.

That's not what Occam's Razor states. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem .
Roughly, "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

Ocham's Razor states the most correct model is the correct one, and that we do not make models needlessly complicated.  

[Kuroiban]

Orchidsandfractals

To each their own. It's for you to decide if my peer is a "real" Rroma or not in your minds. I personally consider her to be one, but if a person here does not, it's their own choice. People prefer strange terms all the time. I am simply trying to explain why she might prefer that term, based on what she's told me and logic filling in any blank spots. The fact is, she prefers that term, and I do know for a fact that in the era when my ancestor wrote, he was NOT trying to be racist by refering to whoever gave him an ankh as a gword. It was the common mode of speech at the time. Of course, my grandmother thinks the word "negro" is the politest term to use for African people(Or of African Ancestry), so I suppose modes of speech do change, and in some parts of the world, it is the least offensive word to use. My peer has not faced discrimination due to her culture, which is probably why she uses that term. I have also listed numerous cases of people prefering to style their ethnicity with what may be considered an insult to many. Must I list more?

Also, Occam's razor is that the simplest explaintion wins, not the most correct(Given current science) explantion wins.

3rdly, this thread is NOT about the gword and modes of speech, it is about hawk goddess and goddesses that have been known to appear as such, as that is WHAT I am asking for advice about. Not what my peers prefer to style themselves as and find to be the least offensive term, or what my ancestor wrote in a journal years ago. I mention my ancestor's religions and such so that if there is a closed group, I can know if I qualify for it or not. I mention how my ancestor obtained an ankh as a backstory as to where my great grandmother got her necklace that she wore daily.

Firstly, fair enough.

Secondly, I know what it means. My statement is that is this; Is it more likely that someone is using a term that is recognized by a vast majority of the people of that culture as pejorative and views the more correct name given to that culture as pejorative instead, or is it more likely they got something wrong along the lines. Between the two the later appears more simple to me, though your mileage may vary.

Thirdly....here is the thing about this guild. We see a lot, and I do mean a lot of cultural rape and abuse, blatant ignorance, and stubborn adherence to what is logically and systematically refuted. Seeing as that is what this guild is largely here to combat, a lot of us tend to jump upon it with due diligence.

Which isn't to say that I, or anyone else for that matter, is. What I will say is that you are not the first person to come along here and make assertions about the G~ word, having done so to a large amount of people who done a considerable amount of research on the term, one of whom is Roma themselves.

You see, when we see a misconception we jump on and attempt to fix that first. We're not sure where and when that misconception could come up again and we'd rather have the foundation secure as opposed to the alternative. That all having been said, realize that while not everything may appear to be directed towards your original line of questioning, we're just doing the job that the guild is out there to do.

Now, as to your original question; I know about as much of specifics of Gods and Goddesses in general as I do about nuclear fission. That being said I can give you some broad suggestions that may put you in the correct direction.

First off, when you have these visions and dreams, write down as much detail as you can as quickly as you can. This will not only aid in research on the topic but will allow you to check for consistency. Record ANYTHING that you notice. Colors, smells, sensations. These will help in the next step

Second, use what you get from the records to do research on the topic at hand. Research hawks. Research Goddesses. Research Hawk Goddesses. Research the areas around where Hawks live, and what cultures venerated them, and how. Did you smell something like lavender, jasmine, or strawberries? Research those fruits and find out what cultures used those plants, scents, and fruits and why they did. Be exhaustive, because you have no idea where useful information may turn up.

Thirdly, if possible, meditate on the circumstances of your visions and dreams to perhaps glean more details. Hope that meager advice helped. sweatdrop

Edit: fixing quotation mistake sweatdrop sweatdrop  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban, you kinda missed a step.

See- I myself have had amazing and interesting dreams that could easily be ascribed to deities based on common correspondence charts and cultural research.

But they weren't prophetic dreams. Without verifying their validity- there's no point in working with the assumption that it is a deity.  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

Kuroiban, you kinda missed a step.

See- I myself have had amazing and interesting dreams that could easily be ascribed to deities based on common correspondence charts and cultural research.

But they weren't prophetic dreams. Without verifying their validity- there's no point in working with the assumption that it is a deity.

I'm no good with catching those sorts of things, which is why I, typically, leave the debunking and varied logic to more skilled hands. My skill, if anything, is at explaining that debunking and varied logic to the debunked.

Oops. redface  

[Aino Ailill]

TeaDidikai

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually come from the area around the Caucasus Mountains myself.

Is that the only thing that determines whether one is a Caucasion? One may have a Caucasoid skull structure without being of the Caucasus mountains. It would seem to me that, like to the bone structure, the term has been expanded to describe a group of people beyond the narrow origins.  

[TeaDidikai]

Aino Ailill

TeaDidikai

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually come from the area around the Caucasus Mountains myself.

Is that the only thing that determines whether one is a Caucasion? One may have a Caucasoid skull structure without being of the Caucasus mountains. It would seem to me that, like to the bone structure, the term has been expanded to describe a group of people beyond the narrow origins.

I have a Caucasoid skull structure. I assure you, I am not Caucasian.  

[Aino Ailill]

TeaDidikai

Aino Ailill

TeaDidikai

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually come from the area around the Caucasus Mountains myself.

Is that the only thing that determines whether one is a Caucasion? One may have a Caucasoid skull structure without being of the Caucasus mountains. It would seem to me that, like to the bone structure, the term has been expanded to describe a group of people beyond the narrow origins.

I have a Caucasoid skull structure. I assure you, I am not Caucasian.

It wasn't my intention to say that the skull structure determined if one was Caucasian. Rather, that the term 'Caucasian' might hold a more broad meaning than 'of the Caucus Mountains' due to how it has evolved in usage, as 'Caucasoid' does not refer merely to the bone structure of those of the Caucus Mountains.