What would you do?

[MortSanglant]

Sorry, girl, but I agree with Rellik. Reading your story, I honestly thought you were in your early teens.

To react that way at age 20 is pretty immature.

I understand you want your family's support. Who doesn't? They're the ones who are supposed to stick by you no matter what, but there are certain ways to handle issues, and you did it poorly. Yes, poorly.

Your reaction will have instilled the notion - or further confirmed the notion, had he thought it prior to your outburst - that the way you dress and the way you act is merely rebellion. Most of the older generation see the gothic dress and gothic lifestyle as that: rebellion. For you to get so upset and scream at him like that will just continue that thought process.

I don't remember who said it, but you could have settled for wearing it around your neck.

Were it I, I would have taken the mask off to keep the peace - considering you were out in public. For Yevon's sake, at least wait till you're at home if you're going to cause a scene. Then if the issue was still hot with you, you could have discussed it in the privacy of your home. But you'll never get anywhere with your parents if you insist on acting like a child.

Like Rellik said, some things aren't acceptable. While it would be nice if everyone just accepted everyone else without a gripe or a moan, that's just not how things are. There's a thing called tact; there's a thing called maturity. You are hardly compromising who you are by opting not to dress a certain way for the sake of keeping the peace in a social setting.

The notion of "you should accept me for who I am" or "I don't care what other people think of me" is not noble. It's not a higher way of thinking. It doesn't set you apart. It makes you look selfish, immature, and bratty - this is a general statement for anyone who takes on that attitude.  

[Gothic Muffin of Doom]

Cyto

btw... n.n I am 20 so everyone knows the age.. LOL

This is something you shouldn't have said....
Now I agree with Rellik San and MortSanglant.  

[Rellik San]

MortSanglant

"I don't care what other people think of me" is not noble. It's not a higher way of thinking. It doesn't set you apart. It makes you look selfish, immature, and bratty - this is a general statement for anyone who takes on that attitude.

Depends with that one.

I mean you can still not care what people think without being bratty about it, like on the bus the other day, I was listening to some Hendrix, foxy lady came on, so of course I start doing the whole Waynes World bit, people looking at me like I'm crazy and some laughed at it. But their reactions did not for one instant bother me.

"I don't care what you think, I'm wearing this and you can't stop me. BAAAAWWWWW!" thats the bratty way to not care what people think.

"I don't really care what you think on the matter to be honest, I'm old enough to wear what I like, where I like if other people have issue with it its not my problem and to be honest it shouldn't be yours either." Thats more a calm well reasoned discussion on the matter, its not really bratty, its just blunt and matter of fact.  

[Rellik San]

Cyto

Really that was pretty rude if I do say so myself? I am very aware what is not excepted in today's norm. But like I said the mask was pretty harmless.. It wasn't out there, and it wasn't anything rude, like your shirt! I mean really who would think of wearing that shirt to a funeral anyway? That dear good sir, would truly be a cruel move.

Well you needed a rude awakening about the real world and society from the sounds of it. Yeah the mask is harmless, but you don't see people walking around wearing mask every day do you? And no... Japan does not count before you start citing VK as an example.

As for my shirt and the funeral, that never happened, I was using it to illustrate my point which is and on these subjects always has been "there is a time and a place". By the way, don't try to condescend to me about morality... ever... it won't be good for your brain.  

[MortSanglant]

Another point to be made here regarding the mask:

in this era of pandemic scares and disease, while you think it's a cute fashion statement, everyone else is likely looking at you thinking "okay, what does she have that I might catch?"

It's a blatant disregard for a legitimate concern of the people of today.

@Rellik:

Love that part! But that's entirely different. Being silly in public without concern that people might think you strange is a far cry from being a little immature brat with regards to the shallow topic of physical appearance - to which my statement referred. Though I see where it was too much of a blanket.  

[SC_Anubis]

Speaking of being childish, what the hell is wrong with you guys. Hauling off and nailing the poor woman with insults after uncalled for insults is wrong.

Have you forgotten what we all dealt with growing up? The things we were attacked for during high-school because it wasn't conforming to other people's standards? WTF is your problem? Seriously you've become that ugly thing that we all hated, the thing that drove us to tears at times.

Good job, you've become what we all hate. Have fun with that reality.

Cyoto, I know how you feel. I am threatened with being disowned by my parents for my choices in fashion and expression and I am 22. Your reaction is justified. You have become a woman and with that age comes the right to behave and express yourself in which ever way you choose. Your aren't a child, therefor your parents have no right to attack your style of fashion that way. I wouldn't have yelled in your situation, but I would've definitely made an issue of it. Chances are, the people in the store would've asked you to remove your mask anyway because people are paranoid, but then you just say you have the Swine Flu or something and they'll back off.

Every man and woman has the right to defend their beliefs and free forms of expression. Its a civil right that our forefathers have fought and died for. For anyone to try and take those rights away, or to attack a person for exercising that right is in violation of our rights as members of this Country and as human beings. Its disgusting, you should all be ashamed.

Cyoto I applaud you for standing up to your own father, no matter how old you are its not easy and these days we are taught that standing up for ourselves is wrong. Mad Kudos for you, I'd give you a medal if I had one! Though yelling isn't the best choice, its better then being walked on. I would suggest you do it calmly and logically next time. If you lay it down on him correctly he may even feel ashamed for doing what he did. I think he should be ashamed.

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't express yourself how you choose to and never let anyone tell you your sense of fashion is unacceptable. As long as its mass produced and there is a following for that culture, then your damn right its fashionable. Conform to your own sense of what should and shouldn't be, not someone else's. Never sell out, never back down.

Some things are worth dying for, personal freedom is one of them.  

[Necrodancer Ghost]

Looks like I'm gonna have to be the blunt guy as usual.
Cyto, you were, quite frankly, being a b***h.
Unless it got violent, you have no right to get bitchy about something as trivial as a friggin' face mask.

Vincent: Quit being such an assuming dumb ********. Not all of us share your experiences. We didn't all deal with the bullshit you dealt with. You see, this is why you post on a Life Issues forum; to ask for advice from others whose experience varies from yours.
My mom embraces goth completely; she introduced it to me for Greedo's sake.
Throughout my entire three years of high school(I dropped out over the summer), I've only been attacked once physically, in which case I ended up knocking the guy out. And that had nothing to do with my appearance; he was trying to steal my phone.
To my knowledge, I was never mocked or harassed by anyone, and was fairly popular despite making it obvious that I am a goth(and the only one at my school), and going to an urban school in the part of Miami with the highest crime rate.
I never conformed to anyone's standards, yet most people were quite tolerant, if not friendly, toward me.
The only times I was "driven to tears" in high school were the times when three friends of mine were killed at separate times, all of which were "jocks" or among the popular crowd. That's right, I was friends with the popular crowds despite being a goth.
Throughout my 18 years, I've never truly dealt with heat regarding my appearance, musical tastes, or aesthetic-driven choices. I was an outcast, yes, in that I stood out from the crowd, but I was never made to feel like an outcast by others.

So, you see, we didn't all deal with your issues growing up. At least I'm quite sure I didn't. And I'm quite sure there are others here that didn't.
The fact of the matter is, many of us feel that OP was being immature, and in my case I feel she was being a whiny and snotty b***h for putting up such a bitchfest over something as retarded and trivial as a mask.
If we think it, we will say it; especially if she puts herself out there so others can pass judgment on an anonymous forum website.

Tl;dr: Get your head out of your a** and grow up.

 

[SC_Anubis]

Okay I said "drove us to tears at times" meaning not all of you, maybe some. When I make a generalization, I do not make an assumption that everyone is the same. Learn to read.

Secondly, no one goes anywhere to be insulted or ridiculed for what they did Especially when they are asking for friendly advice. No one deserves that.

Good for you, you didn't have the negative stuff happen. You were spared the hells of those experiences. Maybe thats why you are so quick to attack and insult. You must not know too much about what this kind of pain is like. So maybe that also means you have no room to speak here either. The same goes for the rest of you. If you don't know what your talking about, or do not share the experience, maybe you shouldn't be talking.

Again, there is no need for personal attacks and insults here. If you are telling people to grow up, eat those words. No one grows up unless they experience the Hells and Heavens of this life first hand and choose to learn from it. Oh yes, I will eat these words too because despite how 'above it all' I may think I am, I am still humble enough to say I still have growing to do as well.

We all need to grow up. By the way, using such vulgarity in your insults along with the manner of your insults doesn't show maturity, but signs of a complete lack of good education. Think on that one, seeing as how it applies to you directly, Mr Spirit.

Furthermore, I think there is enough opinions in this thread so far to give Cyto a good answer for her questions. Continue the exchange if you must, but throwing around knives in the form of words is simply repulsive and I wash my hands of it.  

[Necrodancer Ghost]

Quote:

Have you forgotten what we all dealt with growing up? The things we were attacked for during high-school because it wasn't conforming to other people's standards? WTF is your problem? Seriously you've become that ugly thing that we all hated, the thing that drove us to tears at times.

Good job, you've become what we all hate. Have fun with that reality.

In those short sentences, you spoke as if everyone in the goth subculture has suffered such persecution four times.
Generalization or not, it still shows a level of ignorance, as it does come across as a half-assed assumption.

She asked if she did the right thing or not, everyone replied with either a "yes" or "no", and then subsequently explained their reasoning for why they stood on either side, in many cases giving their opinion of her attitude.
All this happened on a public forum, where there is a guarantee on clashing opinions.
The fact of the matter is, many of us believe she acted immaturely and therefore wish to tell her where she went wrong in her actions, again, after she asked for others' opinions; so because they did this, they're childish, and there's something wrong with them?
I'm sorry, but if you act like an idiot, you're going to be told as such.
What's that old saying? Two wrongs don't make a right?

Whether we share experiences or not is completely irrelevent. The point is, she asked what others believed of her actions in a public forum, and therefore any post anyone makes after that, that is still on-topic mind you, is completely justified. If she only wanted a response from those who share her experiences, she'd have posted on a non-public forum made for those who share such experiences.
In short, if you're going to ask a whole public community its opinion, don't b***h about what is said; you brought it on yourself.

Also, someone who uses "WTF" in a literate forum probably shouldn't speak about a lack of good education, lest he look like a hypocrite.
Either way, I was raised with the single principle that if you don't tell it exactly how you feel, you're nothing short of a liar. I'm a blunt man, always have been, always will be. If it makes me look uneducated, well cocks to that; as long as I feel it gets my point across, I don't give a ********>  

[SADERR]

I also agree with Relik here. You're a grown woman, you should have just tooken off the mask and put it on after. Masks make society uncomfortable most the time, take others into consideration.


We all have our right to freedom and expression, but this shouldn't be selfish. Accept the social standards of others. Just as a gangster wearing a bandana on their face causes paranoia to some people, as does anyone wearing a mask. I would also be worried of the hidden identity.

Please respect others in your freedom, at least.  

[zz1000zz]

Rellik San

You're 20... that was kind of a bratty thing to do and say then, when I read it I thought you were about 13... 15 at the most.

I mean grow up already, certain things just aren't socially acceptable, you don't see me wearing my "Jesus is a c**t" shirt and finger gaurds at my grandfathers funeral. There are just certain societal norms that have to be conformed too, maybe YOU want to make a massive statement about who you are by the way you dress, but at least have some consideration for those around you. I actually agree with your father on this, you should have taken the mask off and then put it back on again when you left if you wanted to wear it that badly.

You don't *have* to compromise. You don't *have* to conform. You choose to, nothing more.

Mugen

You can make all the excuses you want. But you're the one who decides how to live your life.

 

[Rellik San]

Vincent_Anubis

Speaking of being childish, what the hell is wrong with you guys. Hauling off and nailing the poor woman with insults after uncalled for insults is wrong.

Have you forgotten what we all dealt with growing up? The things we were attacked for during high-school because it wasn't conforming to other people's standards? WTF is your problem? Seriously you've become that ugly thing that we all hated, the thing that drove us to tears at times.

Good job, you've become what we all hate. Have fun with that reality.

I find that not only insulting but incredibly condescending. What if she doesn't get a job because of the way she dresses, its all very well spouting personal freedoms and other kinds of bullshit, but the real world doesn't work like that. You say you're 22, I went through hell growing up, but you know what, I didn't take it as an attack on my freedoms, I took it as life lessons and expecting someone in their 20's to apply those same life lessons isn't unreasonable, all I said was to dress appropriatly for the situation, if you can't handle that, have fun working retail your whole life, I have a nice cushy desk job and high salary with my name on it and all I had to do was tone it down. So don't attack me because you still have childish notions of the world.

Vincent_Anubis

Every man and woman has the right to defend their beliefs and free forms of expression. Its a civil right that our forefathers have fought and died for. For anyone to try and take those rights away, or to attack a person for exercising that right is in violation of our rights as members of this Country and as human beings. Its disgusting, you should all be ashamed.

Oh and I lol'd.

First up not everyone here is American, next up, an American preaching about civil liberties... to a British guy.... you are aware because of your ******** up country I have no civil liberties anymore? Oh we were fine when you guys were funding the terrorists, that was ok, but now the terrorists YOU funded have attacked, we have listening devices in street lamps, out internet traffic is governmentally monitored, they have a huge database with all our registered info on it, did you know, if I was to run for a buse because I was a bit late for it, I'd probably get tackled, held by the police for 40 days without charge and questioned like a terrorist, because of what your country insisted mine does.

You want to talk to me about personal liberties, you'd better bring more then you self rightuous optimism, because if you'd said that to me in person, I'd have hit you and you wouldn't be getting up after it.

zz1000zz

You don't *have* to compromise. You don't *have* to conform. You choose to, nothing more.

Mugen

You can make all the excuses you want. But you're the one who decides how to live your life.

You're right we all decide how to live our own lives, but that still doesn't excuse her behaviour or her reactions, that was not the behaviour or the reaction of an adult, even one as young as 22.  

[Necrodancer Ghost]

Heheh. I always found that funny about my country, Rellik. We ******** up and everyone pays the price.

 

[zz1000zz]

Rellik San

zz1000zz

You don't *have* to compromise. You don't *have* to conform. You choose to, nothing more.

Mugen

You can make all the excuses you want. But you're the one who decides how to live your life.

You're right we all decide how to live our own lives, but that still doesn't excuse her behaviour or her reactions, that was not the behaviour or the reaction of an adult, even one as young as 22.

That is completely irrelevant. I responded to one specific part of your post. It is silly to respond to me as though I was discussing something else.

When you quote someone and respond to them, address what they said.

Rellik San

First up not everyone here is American, next up, an American preaching about civil liberties... to a British guy.... you are aware because of your ******** up country I have no civil liberties anymore? Oh we were fine when you guys were funding the terrorists, that was ok, but now the terrorists YOU funded have attacked, we have listening devices in street lamps, out internet traffic is governmentally monitored, they have a huge database with all our registered info on it, did you know, if I was to run for a buse because I was a bit late for it, I'd probably get tackled, held by the police for 40 days without charge and questioned like a terrorist, because of what your country insisted mine does.

Where do you get off blaming the United States for your country's problems? The United States may have wanted your country to do certain things, but it was your country which choose to do them. The United States didn't force it.

If anything, your country just used the United States as an excuse to do what it always wanted to do.

Rellik San

You want to talk to me about personal liberties, you'd better bring more then you self rightuous optimism, because if you'd said that to me in person, I'd have hit you and you wouldn't be getting up after it.

Internet tough guy whining and blaming his problems on other people? And I thought Cyto was bad.