Tarot?

[rmcdra]

Collowrath

dittolovebug

Aino Ailill

Tarot originated as a game, correct? If so, where could one find instructions on how to play?

Tarot is a divination tool not a 'toy' despite the use of simple playing cards at times instead of one of the more elaborate decks.

Actually, tarot cards did originate as playing cards (toys!). It wasn't uncommon in the Renaissance to use playing cards for divination.

That said, Aino, I don't know what game/s they played with them.

It still exist. There is a French Card game called Tarot. It's a trump-catching game kinda like Spades. I've never played it first hand but that's how the game was explained to me.  

[TeaDidikai]

Nines19

I was wondering if the "standard deck" of Tarot cards is the only common deck?

There are three "standards" within proper Tarot. There's the Rider-Waite, the Visconti-Sforza and the Thoth deck.

Rider-Waite is credited with the easy to read mass produced deck we're familiar with. The Visconti-Sforza deck is one of the oldest if not the actual oldest deck there is and features a minor arcana that depicts the number of items for the proper suit. Crowley had some opinions on the relation between Tarot and the paths between the Sephera within his brand of mysticism and as a result he swapped some things around, moving the Star and other major arcana cards to different places within his deck.

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Are there any unusual decks with interesting cards you've come across or heard of?

What do you consider "unusual"?

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What are some opinions on making your own sets and/or coming up with your own card designs?

I've been working on my oracle deck for a good deal of time now. I have to redo some of the cards. They draw largely from cultural folklore.

As for a tarot deck for myself, I would likely apply a similar art style from my oracle deck to the major arcana and hand carve blocks for a Visconti-Sforza styled minor arcana with perhaps some subtle images in the background.

demisara

and just about all tarot decks follow that format of suits and arcanas,

Except of course for the scores of decks that do not follow the Rider Waite format.

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My go-to deck for general inquiries is the Victoria Regina by Sarah Ovenall and Georg Patterson, because it's very good at being blunt and telling me exactly what I need to hear.

It's a piece of paper with ink on it. What makes you think the deck has any skill at all?

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A deck that's made to answer your questions, if you make it well and willfully, will "try harder" or be more "powerful" than a store-bought deck, even if just because it means more to you.

Again, why is this a reflection of the deck and how do you know that it won't simply reverberate back it's creator's expectations in a shallow mimicry of what is expected of it?

dittolovebug

I prefer my Rider-Waite deck though which is was my first Tarot set.

I'm pretty sure the person who colored the original Rider Waite deck was colorblind.

Horrible color scheme.

Collowrath

I see a lot of decks, one which I thought was interesting replaced the Major Arcana with figures from Russian folklore.

Which one? Have you seen the Tarot of St. Petersburg?

dittolovebug

Tarot is a divination tool not a 'toy' despite the use of simple playing cards at times instead of one of the more elaborate decks.

Rather ignorant and insulting of you. I've used my divination decks as common card decks many times.

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To Learn how to use a Tarot deck and and the picture meanings within can be done with many books out there (you can usually find a deck that has it's own book)

I find that most books give the author's understandings and impressions without addressing the key factor for any given reader. Themselves.

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but as I mentioned above it isn't a toy and if used as such will not work properly you would at best get confused results and or simply a neat party trick to play on your friends.

Oddly enough, I have never, ever found this to be the case. What is your support for this assertion?

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Tarot takes time and patience and an open mind in order to use the standard interpretations in the book and your own "intuition" to elaborate on the cards arranged before you. Otherwise you'll be telling your best friend "She'll be running off with a dark haired man tomorrow and swimming in tomato soup that weekend."

Bold words for someone who hasn't taken into account anyone else's experiences.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

I see a lot of decks, one which I thought was interesting replaced the Major Arcana with figures from Russian folklore.

Which one? Have you seen the Tarot of St. Petersburg?

That would be the one.  

[whiporwill-o]

i've owned a few tarot decks over the years and my favorite is the mythic tarot deck by juliet sharman burke and liz greene. i'm not that well versed in the cards yet, but i find the artwork to be beautiful and it is based on greek mythos, which i find to be interesting.

i'm not particularly a fan of the rider-waite deck, i just dont 'feel' it, ya know.  

[ColetteCatastrophe]

I boutght the Deviant Moon Tarot deck it's pretty interesting as far as looks go. I saw it at Barnes and Noble sweatdrop not quite sure if thats good or bad.
[sorry about anything that doesnt make sense I have a killer headache]

Edit: I just realized I spelled bought wrong sweatdrop  

[TeaDidikai]

ColetteCatastrophe

I saw it at Barnes and Noble sweatdrop not quite sure if thats good or bad.

Most of the commercially available tarot decks are published by US Games Systems Inc.
Everyone from local bookshops to Borders buys from them since they have over a hundred decks published within their company and they have low minimum order requirements.  

[ColetteCatastrophe]

TeaDidikai

ColetteCatastrophe

I saw it at Barnes and Noble sweatdrop not quite sure if thats good or bad.

Most of the commercially available tarot decks are published by US Games Systems Inc.
Everyone from local bookshops to Borders buys from them since they have over a hundred decks published within their company and they have low minimum order requirements.

Makes sense 3nodding  

[TeaDidikai]

ColetteCatastrophe

TeaDidikai

ColetteCatastrophe

I saw it at Barnes and Noble sweatdrop not quite sure if thats good or bad.

Most of the commercially available tarot decks are published by US Games Systems Inc.
Everyone from local bookshops to Borders buys from them since they have over a hundred decks published within their company and they have low minimum order requirements.

Makes sense 3nodding

There are other smaller publishers as well. But US Games Systems Inc is the big one. I loved placing orders with them- I just wish they didn't do so many exclusive Book and Deck combos. I hate those with a passion.  

[FlySammyJ]

TeaDidikai

demisara

and just about all tarot decks follow that format of suits and arcanas,

Except of course for the scores of decks that do not follow the Rider Waite format.

Of course there are exceptions, but the Rider-Waite deck is synonymous with tarot, really. If you want to talk about the Toth deck, you have to specify. I'm not a huge fan personally, but I do think it's the gold standard. Scores of anomalies versus hundreds of RW-style decks kind of speaks to that.

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It's a piece of paper with ink on it. What makes you think the deck has any skill at all?

Personal experience. When I go to this deck with a question, it tells me exactly what I need to know, no more and no less, without sugarcoating anything. I don't rule out the possibility that my little brain associates Victorian images with practicality or something of that nature (when this deck really wants something said, though, it's hard to misread), and I'm certainly not saying that all Victoria Regina decks speak the same way. I don't know how it happens that my favorite deck has no tact, but that doesn't change the fact.

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A deck that's made to answer your questions, if you make it well and willfully, will "try harder" or be more "powerful" than a store-bought deck, even if just because it means more to you.

Again, why is this a reflection of the deck and how do you know that it won't simply reverberate back it's creator's expectations in a shallow mimicry of what is expected of it?

$0.02 bolded for emphasis. I'm also somewhat animist, and I apply this to made things. An airplane loves to fly, a pen loves to write, and a deck loves to divine. Of course the diviner is the most important aspect of divination - the best deck in the world can't do anything for a poor interpreter.

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Horrible color scheme.

Oh here I agree with you.  

[chaoticpuppet]

I bought the Dragon Tarot years back, but never had much luck with it and pretty much stopped using it. Although, being that it was the first deck and had no real clue what I was doing, it was mostly my lack of understanding.  

[TeaDidikai]

demisara

Of course there are exceptions, but the Rider-Waite deck is synonymous with tarot, really.

And depending on tradition, so are the other to major kinds of cards. Really what Rider Waite is synonymous with is "quick and easy" tarot cards. Not all decks are such.

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If you want to talk about the Toth deck, you have to specify. I'm not a huge fan personally, but I do think it's the gold standard. Scores of anomalies versus hundreds of RW-style decks kind of speaks to that.

Not Toth, Thoth, as in the deck conceptualized by Crowley. The one he wrote a book on even before an artist made the deck itself.

See, that's part of the problem. I really don't have to specify. Tarot decks commonly fit one of three patterns. Rider-Waite, Thoth- by Crowley, and the Visconti-Sforza. It's not "just about all", it's one group amongst three that have a common pattern. Do you follow?

That's like saying "Just about all Asians are Chinese". rolleyes Yeah, you're right- if you ignore India, the Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Japanese, the Thai... etc.

Yes, there is a huge percentage that are Chinese. There's a huge percentage that are Indian too. In the analogy, these would be the Visconti-Sforza and Rider-Waite based groups respectively. Then you get into smaller populations- such as the Thoth, which is still a good number of decks- but are more commonly used in specific traditions where the changes make sense in context than amongst the general population. After that you get into some of the more unique designs and independent numerological justifications for changes in the decks.

In short- saying "just about all" doesn't make you right.

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Personal experience. When I go to this deck with a question, it tells me exactly what I need to know, no more and no less, without sugarcoating anything. I don't rule out the possibility that my little brain associates Victorian images with practicality or something of that nature (when this deck really wants something said, though, it's hard to misread), and I'm certainly not saying that all Victoria Regina decks speak the same way. I don't know how it happens that my favorite deck has no tact, but that doesn't change the fact.

Of course it could simply be your reading style and you're projecting your expectations onto the tool in your hand. What have you done to eliminate that possibility?

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$0.02 bolded for emphasis. I'm also somewhat animist, and I apply this to made things.

This is highly selective animism. stare

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An airplane loves to fly, a pen loves to write, and a deck loves to divine.

How about those that don't? What next? You'll be saying that black people love to play Basketball? Shallow animism if the only extension of self to the objects is what you expect of them.

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Of course the diviner is the most important aspect of divination - the best deck in the world can't do anything for a poor interpreter.

Which would suggest your assertions are flawed.  

[patch99329]

I have never used Tarot decks. I'd like to learn how though.

My divination of choice is divining with playing cards. Damn good results.  

[TeaDidikai]

patch99329

I have never used Tarot decks. I'd like to learn how though.

My divination of choice is divining with playing cards. Damn good results.

I have a kind of playing card deck I like to read with.
Quite fond of Pippoglyph.  

[patch99329]

TeaDidikai

patch99329

I have never used Tarot decks. I'd like to learn how though.

My divination of choice is divining with playing cards. Damn good results.

I have a kind of playing card deck I like to read with.
Quite fond of Pippoglyph.

Those are nice!

I use a tiny deck I found years ago. I saw some really nice greek themed decks in crete, and some other nice decks in a local collectables shop...but actually, I'm just really attached to my tiny crappy tattered deck.
I don't think I could actually replace it with another one. I trust it and know it well.

I have a few systems in place; some standardized ones, and a couple of my own. As time had gone on, I've come to associate certain cards with certain gods.  

[FlySammyJ]

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Not Toth, Thoth, as in the deck conceptualized by Crowley. The one he wrote a book on even before an artist made the deck itself.

I know, thank you, it was a typo.

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See, that's part of the problem. I really don't have to specify. Tarot decks commonly fit one of three patterns. Rider-Waite, Thoth- by Crowley, and the Visconti-Sforza. It's not "just about all", it's one group amongst three that have a common pattern. Do you follow?

That's like saying "Just about all Asians are Chinese". rolleyes Yeah, you're right- if you ignore India, the Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Japanese, the Thai... etc.

Okay, so I overgeneralized a bit...I seem to be doing that a lot lately. I'm wondering if you have any numbers, though. I'm only going on observations, but I'd be willing to bet that out of all the decks in actual use in the states, RW and RW-style decks are pretty dominant, and have been for long enough to make an impression. So I guess I meant contemporary (pop culture) standard.

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Of course it could simply be your reading style and you're projecting your expectations onto the tool in your hand. What have you done to eliminate that possibility?

Well I've used several other decks with very different results. I've also let others use this one, but quite frankly I'm the best with the cards out of my close friends (they still use the LWB), and I wouldn't let anyone I'm not close to get their paws all over it. Also, when I read for someone, I try to let them make some of their own conclusions before I add my input, and I get a pretty consistent response. Something like, "Wow, that's not exactly the answer I was looking for, but I'll be damned if it isn't true." Do you have any suggestions for variables that I can eliminate?

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$0.02 bolded for emphasis. I'm also somewhat animist, and I apply this to made things.

This is highly selective animism. stare

Well, this is just one aspect of it. An application of a theory that has many applications in my life.

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An airplane loves to fly, a pen loves to write, and a deck loves to divine.

How about those that don't? What next? You'll be saying that black people love to play Basketball? Shallow animism if the only extension of self to the objects is what you expect of them.

A well made tool does carry an impression of its maker, so in a sense it is an extension of self, no less than a painting is. Of course the object is also whole of itself, with its own expression. The spirit of a made thing is different from the spirit of a natural thing in a way that I find very difficult (and am not often asked) to describe. I'll go think on it and see if I can clarify. I also find the parallel to racism kind of unnecessary.

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Of course the diviner is the most important aspect of divination - the best deck in the world can't do anything for a poor interpreter.

Which would suggest your assertions are flawed.

How so? I see the relationship between the deck and the reader as like that between the fiddle and the player. Both have their own qualities and strengths, and the music is where the two meet.