demanding god/desses

[whiporwill-o]

ok, so no demands until initiation/dedication/etc.

how do you know for a down-right fact, without question that it is truly a god or goddess trying to get you as opposed to a thoughtform or just an overactive imagination. i have read on here that it is different for different people and different deities, and some of you give personal experiences, but really, really, how do you know. i mean i just dont understand how you just realize that you are being sought or pulled or whatever instead of being like, 'oh, i've seen 15 owls figures today so Athena must be calling me'... (just a hypothetical example, don't take it to heart)

i'm sorry, i am trying to make sense of all of this, but i just dont get it sweatdrop .  

[Bastemhet]

whiporwill-o

ok, so no demands until initiation/dedication/etc.

how do you know for a down-right fact, without question that it is truly a god or goddess trying to get you as opposed to a thoughtform or just an overactive imagination. i have read on here that it is different for different people and different deities, and some of you give personal experiences, but really, really, how do you know. i mean i just dont understand how you just realize that you are being sought or pulled or whatever instead of being like, 'oh, i've seen 15 owls figures today so Athena must be calling me'... (just a hypothetical example, don't take it to heart)

i'm sorry, i am trying to make sense of all of this, but i just dont get it sweatdrop .

I struggled with this same question. You should ask yourself if maybe you're expecting something that might be different from what you're actually receiving. Responses from the gods I contacted were not always obvious. Most were subtle, and some only noticed with hindsight bias, or confirming similar responses with other people's UPG, or reading the history or mythos surrounding that deity and comparing that with how they interact with you. Typically when I speak to them or offer something, if they're listening they might give me a feeling or emotion to let me know what they think, or drop some thoughts into my head out of the blue, or even create coincidences that end up being too strong and compelling to be coincidence.

In the end it will be faith, because I don't think the existence of god/desses can be scientifically verifiable. At least not right now, or to the extent that denying their existence would be contrary to fact.  

[TeaDidikai]

whiporwill-o

ok, so no demands until initiation/dedication/etc.

That wasn't how it worked for me. Keep in mind that some gods lay claim to mortals that aren't even born yet.  

[Gho the Girl]

whiporwill-o

i read in one post here that one's gods and/or goddesses demanded worship as opposed to just being worshipped just because one can (i understand that the poster was speaking from a personal standpoint and i have already forgotten who posted it {sorry whoever you are, i'm very tired} but i had to go ahead and post this question before i forgot to).

now my question is not about whether or not the god/dess you want to worship wants you, my question is more about if i do not feel like anything is being demanded of me then does that mean that no diety wants me?

if the answer is yes, then that does not bother me, it is more of a curiosity thing. i figure if i feel that no one is making demands of me then i have just not found my religious calling, if i even have one.

my appologies if my wording is difficult to understand, i am not very cohearent at the moment. *passes out*

God didn't so much call me. I didn't get visions, dreams, some sort of message. But I went to the right church, and God said "Welcome back."

If no god is calling you, maybe you're righting for the right one to welcome you.  

[whiporwill-o]

Sophist

In the end it will be faith, because I don't think the existence of god/desses can be scientifically verifiable. At least not right now, or to the extent that denying their existence would be contrary to fact.

that makes sense, but how do you properly question if your faith is justified or if its just all in your head? (this is open to anyone who can/will answer, thanks)  

[whiporwill-o]

TeaDidikai

whiporwill-o

ok, so no demands until initiation/dedication/etc.

That wasn't how it worked for me. Keep in mind that some gods lay claim to mortals that aren't even born yet.

how does one know if they are claimed before birth? i am 99.9% sure i was not, but for the sake of knowledge, how does that work? (if you don't mind, just let me know if i'm being too nosey)  

[whiporwill-o]

Gho the Girl

God didn't so much call me. I didn't get visions, dreams, some sort of message. But I went to the right church, and God said "Welcome back."

If no god is calling you, maybe you're righting for the right one to welcome you.

'welcome back' as in you had wandered, then returned and was received with open arms? that is wonderful, i wonder how many other gods and goddesses are that understanding (i, as i'm sure everyone has noticed, am not very well versed in myth and lore, sadly).  

[Bastemhet]

whiporwill-o

Sophist

In the end it will be faith, because I don't think the existence of god/desses can be scientifically verifiable. At least not right now, or to the extent that denying their existence would be contrary to fact.

that makes sense, but how do you properly question if your faith is justified or if its just all in your head? (this is open to anyone who can/will answer, thanks)

I think you might be placing a little too much emphasis on what the "correct actions when dealing with deities" are. What I would do is read up on the history, tradition, and mythos of whatever religion you're interested in. Find gods/goddesses you're interested in, and see what their followers deem a proper way to contact/offer to them. Then do it. If you don't feel anything compelling or feel like you're getting some kind of answer, then perhaps it's not the religion for you. I think if you get a response, you will know. Try not to let your cynicism get in the way. I'm all for critical thinking, but there's a point at which skepticism becomes total rejection without room for the supernatural. I felt a lot of this seeing as how I was atheist before I became Kemetic recon.  

[TeaDidikai]

whiporwill-o

how does one know if they are claimed before birth?

Depends on the tradition. YHVH for example holds people up to a certain number of generations after the first apostate, going as far to issue generational curses.

Within Shinto, tending specific Kami within their Shrines is often a family affair. Amongst my tradition, your family is often tied to specific beings and your role within the family can tie you to others.  

[whiporwill-o]

TeaDidikai

whiporwill-o

how does one know if they are claimed before birth?

Depends on the tradition. YHVH for example holds people up to a certain number of generations after the first apostate, going as far to issue generational curses.

Within Shinto, tending specific Kami within their Shrines is often a family affair. Amongst my tradition, your family is often tied to specific beings and your role within the family can tie you to others.

thanks biggrin  

[whiporwill-o]

Sophist

I think you might be placing a little too much emphasis on what the "correct actions when dealing with deities" are. What I would do is read up on the history, tradition, and mythos of whatever religion you're interested in. Find gods/goddesses you're interested in, and see what their followers deem a proper way to contact/offer to them. Then do it. If you don't feel anything compelling or feel like you're getting some kind of answer, then perhaps it's not the religion for you. I think if you get a response, you will know. Try not to let your cynicism get in the way. I'm all for critical thinking, but there's a point at which skepticism becomes total rejection without room for the supernatural. I felt a lot of this seeing as how I was atheist before I became Kemetic recon.

will the mythos provide that type of insight? i am very interested in the greek lore, yet my knowledge is still very grade school and limited, and that is my own fault, i just havent made the trip to the library yet.

i am not trying to sound cynical, i just want to cover all of my bases, i apologize for sounding negative.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

whiporwill-o

how does one know if they are claimed before birth?

Depends on the tradition. YHVH for example holds people up to a certain number of generations after the first apostate, going as far to issue generational curses.

Within Shinto, tending specific Kami within their Shrines is often a family affair. Amongst my tradition, your family is often tied to specific beings and your role within the family can tie you to others.

Also, I've seen among some heathen traditions the idea that your Gods can be tied to your ancestry - Norse Gods for people of Scandinavian blood, Slavic Gods for people of Slavic blood (as if there really is such a thing, in both cases).

It's another of those things in the "I'm not so sure about this" pile. *shrug*  

[Bastemhet]

whiporwill-o

Sophist

I think you might be placing a little too much emphasis on what the "correct actions when dealing with deities" are. What I would do is read up on the history, tradition, and mythos of whatever religion you're interested in. Find gods/goddesses you're interested in, and see what their followers deem a proper way to contact/offer to them. Then do it. If you don't feel anything compelling or feel like you're getting some kind of answer, then perhaps it's not the religion for you. I think if you get a response, you will know. Try not to let your cynicism get in the way. I'm all for critical thinking, but there's a point at which skepticism becomes total rejection without room for the supernatural. I felt a lot of this seeing as how I was atheist before I became Kemetic recon.

will the mythos provide that type of insight? i am very interested in the greek lore, yet my knowledge is still very grade school and limited, and that is my own fault, i just havent made the trip to the library yet.

i am not trying to sound cynical, i just want to cover all of my bases, i apologize for sounding negative.

I think it depends on what tradition you're looking into. Now if you had a more specific question about Kemetic Recon, I could definitely help you with that. I don't know much about Greek lore, but there are a couple of people on this forum that'll probably pipe up about this and be of much more help than I.

No need to apologize, I just think that the idea of what's proper can vary depending on what you're interested in. It can be hard to pinpoint what would be the proper way of doing things when the answer can't be much more cohesive than "do your homework." 3nodding Also, communicating with gods can only be understood fully by doing it. It's definitely experiential.  

[TeaDidikai]

whiporwill-o

will the mythos provide that type of insight? i am very interested in the greek lore, yet my knowledge is still very grade school and limited, and that is my own fault, i just havent made the trip to the library yet.

In many cases, there are descriptions about key concepts. For example, there are illusions to what makes things pure and impure in the tales I heard growing up. But then, I have a living cultural tradition that expands upon them.

In the case of the Hellenics, a number of the Maxims can be found reflected within the different sources of lore.

Collowrath

Also, I've seen among some heathen traditions the idea that your Gods can be tied to your ancestry - Norse Gods for people of Scandinavian blood, Slavic Gods for people of Slavic blood (as if there really is such a thing, in both cases).

It's another of those things in the "I'm not so sure about this" pile. *shrug*

The problem with both of those examples is that these are two groups that don't have any such lore to support it.

The Gael and the Rroma have oaths within the mythology that are the source of this perspective. It's just not present in the lore of the Slavs or the Norse.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

Also, I've seen among some heathen traditions the idea that your Gods can be tied to your ancestry - Norse Gods for people of Scandinavian blood, Slavic Gods for people of Slavic blood (as if there really is such a thing, in both cases).

It's another of those things in the "I'm not so sure about this" pile. *shrug*

The problem with both of those examples is that these are two groups that don't have any such lore to support it.

The Gael and the Rroma have oaths within the mythology that are the source of this perspective. It's just not present in the lore of the Slavs or the Norse.

That's why it's in the unsure pile. I see a lot of groups in Europe and some in America that mix religion and nationalism in this way, but it just isn't there in the lore. On the other hand, so many people find their way back to ancestral Gods that there might be something to it - just not in the exclusivist way some groups might portray it as.

The Gael and the Rroma are different in that the mythology and their Gods make it quite clear who is welcome and who isn't, whether it's based on a historical attachment (conquest of Ireland and the oaths and treaties agreed to afterward) or because of a purity standard that outsiders just aren't going to live up to.