Gods and Godesses: real entitys or representatives?

[Gho the Girl]

The REAL easter bunnuh

guardian_rose

The REAL easter bunnuh

Gho the Girl

@Guardian Rose:
You're applying limited concepts to an entity that is potentially limitless, if we are talking about YHVH. Ants do not comprehend the social lives of humans. A mitochondria cannot begin to understand the complexity of quantum physics.

Further, who says anything about running?

@OP: So I think you're asking if deities, should they exist, do they exist independant of creation, or do they exist because of creation?

i.e. is Thor just the God of Thunder? Or does he exist independant of his "sphere of influence"?

I sense some Jungian dilemna here.

GHO I enjoy your response.

im not sure what Jungian is though and so I am off to google!

Jungian refers to Psychoanalyst Carl Jung. Its in reference to the topic and dream interpretation.

oh...all righty then

Jung spoke to more than that though.
He did much work categorizing symbols and archetypes. He found that many societies, religions, etc. had common archetypes and symbols. In polytheistic religions, many have a god of war, a god of the sea, a god of nature, etc. Part of the dilemna created by his work is that the gods became less a group of individuals and more symbolic figures that held certain traits. Loki, for instance, is the fool, has traits of trikery, deception, mayhaps luck.

So what I'm sensing here is that question of, are these gods merely representation of ideas and/or conceptions that exist in nature and the collective unconscious, or are these gods actually real individuals, and if so, how do they relate to the spheres of influence that so many have assigned to them?  

[The REAL easter bunnuh]

Gho the Girl

The REAL easter bunnuh

guardian_rose

The REAL easter bunnuh

Gho the Girl

@Guardian Rose:
You're applying limited concepts to an entity that is potentially limitless, if we are talking about YHVH. Ants do not comprehend the social lives of humans. A mitochondria cannot begin to understand the complexity of quantum physics.

Further, who says anything about running?

@OP: So I think you're asking if deities, should they exist, do they exist independant of creation, or do they exist because of creation?

i.e. is Thor just the God of Thunder? Or does he exist independant of his "sphere of influence"?

I sense some Jungian dilemna here.

GHO I enjoy your response.

im not sure what Jungian is though and so I am off to google!

Jungian refers to Psychoanalyst Carl Jung. Its in reference to the topic and dream interpretation.

oh...all righty then

Jung spoke to more than that though.
He did much work categorizing symbols and archetypes. He found that many societies, religions, etc. had common archetypes and symbols. In polytheistic religions, many have a god of war, a god of the sea, a god of nature, etc. Part of the dilemna created by his work is that the gods became less a group of individuals and more symbolic figures that held certain traits. Loki, for instance, is the fool, has traits of trikery, deception, mayhaps luck.

So what I'm sensing here is that question of, are these gods merely representation of ideas and/or conceptions that exist in nature and the collective unconscious, or are these gods actually real individuals, and if so, how do they relate to the spheres of influence that so many have assigned to them?

yes! THAT! thats exactly what im asking biggrin  

[Fiddlers Green]

I am a person, a discrete being, yet I am also a part of my community, my circle of friends, my nation, my political affiliation, the greater organic processes of my planet, and numerous other greater wholes.

That is the crux of the matter to me, can anything be completely it's own entity without also being part of something else?

For my part, until asked to offer address in a different form, I always prefer to er on the side of assuming individuality rather than aspectdom. I've found it causes rarer offense. It is a courtesy I would prefer, and thus, attempt to render.  

[TeaDidikai]

The REAL easter bunnuh

like how there is gods of nature.

Part of the fundamental problem is that you're suggesting that there is anything amongst the description in the sources for paganism that suggests that a deity is their patronage.  

[guardian_rose]

Reminds me of an old adage. "No matter how big and bad you think you are, there is always someone bigger."  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

Fiddlers Green

That is the crux of the matter to me, can anything be completely it's own entity without also being part of something else?

That is a good point to ponder.... (pov of one who is at work and half out of it) As humans we are a part of the universe, thusly having a part to play in the workings of the universe for cosmic and/or chaos; no matter how infinitesimal or immense of a role, whether it is apparent or not.

As to the question at hand... I have always had a poly view on deities, beings, etc. I don't see any of the divine spirits as representations of anything other then themselves. Individuals with their own interests (usually what they are known to protect/oversea/deal with) and temperaments (yes I feel deities can have their cranky days).

One of my peeves is when people call all goddesses the same goddess under different names (yes I've heard that come out of the mouth of a wiccan priest acquaintance of mine, he actually told his student that Lilith, Hekate, Brighid and Damnu were all the goddess so didn't matter the name the person called her o_O).  

[TeaDidikai]

Kashaku-Tatsu

One of my peeves is when people call all goddesses the same goddess under different names (yes I've heard that come out of the mouth of a wiccan priest acquaintance of mine, he actually told his student that Lilith, Hekate, Brighid and Damnu were all the goddess so didn't matter the name the person called her o_O).

This is called Soft Polytheism.

I'm curious as to what lineage this Priest held, since this isn't a doctrine of The Wica.  

[Gho the Girl]

TeaDidikai

Kashaku-Tatsu

One of my peeves is when people call all goddesses the same goddess under different names (yes I've heard that come out of the mouth of a wiccan priest acquaintance of mine, he actually told his student that Lilith, Hekate, Brighid and Damnu were all the goddess so didn't matter the name the person called her o_O).

This is called Soft Polytheism.

I'm curious as to what lineage this Priest held, since this isn't a doctrine of The Wica.

I'm hethenotheist. Am I soft polytheist?  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Kashaku-Tatsu

One of my peeves is when people call all goddesses the same goddess under different names (yes I've heard that come out of the mouth of a wiccan priest acquaintance of mine, he actually told his student that Lilith, Hekate, Brighid and Damnu were all the goddess so didn't matter the name the person called her o_O).

This is called Soft Polytheism.

I'm curious as to what lineage this Priest held, since this isn't a doctrine of The Wica.

I'm hethenotheist. Am I soft polytheist?

Debatable.
It'll help if you answer this question for me:
Is YHVH the Lord of the Isles?  

[Deoridhe]

Gho the Girl

Jung spoke to more than that though.
He did much work categorizing symbols and archetypes. He found that many societies, religions, etc. had common archetypes and symbols. In polytheistic religions, many have a god of war, a god of the sea, a god of nature, etc. Part of the dilemna created by his work is that the gods became less a group of individuals and more symbolic figures that held certain traits. Loki, for instance, is the fool, has traits of trikery, deception, mayhaps luck.

He actually found that the Western (largely Roman influenced) representation of different societies, religions, etc... had common archetypes and symbols. According to one of my professors, who WILL give up the references once I have the time and energy to pin him down and shake them out of him, Jung actually took the shocking step of GOING TO OTHER CoUNTRIES and discovered that maybe the reports he got on all those gods & stuff were a tad bit misrepresented due to projection (yay shadow!).

Unfortunately, it's his later works, and a lot of them aren't translated. Grrrr. But I wants them, my precious. I wants to squeeze everything useful out of his dead brains and then make the world anew!  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Gho the Girl

Jung spoke to more than that though.
He did much work categorizing symbols and archetypes. He found that many societies, religions, etc. had common archetypes and symbols. In polytheistic religions, many have a god of war, a god of the sea, a god of nature, etc. Part of the dilemna created by his work is that the gods became less a group of individuals and more symbolic figures that held certain traits. Loki, for instance, is the fool, has traits of trikery, deception, mayhaps luck.

He actually found that the Western (largely Roman influenced) representation of different societies, religions, etc... had common archetypes and symbols. According to one of my professors, who WILL give up the references once I have the time and energy to pin him down and shake them out of him, Jung actually took the shocking step of GOING TO OTHER CoUNTRIES and discovered that maybe the reports he got on all those gods & stuff were a tad bit misrepresented due to projection (yay shadow!).

Unfortunately, it's his later works, and a lot of them aren't translated. Grrrr. But I wants them, my precious. I wants to squeeze everything useful out of his dead brains and then make the world anew!

Thought about hiring a translator yourself and then having the two of you split the profits from any of the Self Publishing companies when you sell the books?  

[Gho the Girl]

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Kashaku-Tatsu

One of my peeves is when people call all goddesses the same goddess under different names (yes I've heard that come out of the mouth of a wiccan priest acquaintance of mine, he actually told his student that Lilith, Hekate, Brighid and Damnu were all the goddess so didn't matter the name the person called her o_O).

This is called Soft Polytheism.

I'm curious as to what lineage this Priest held, since this isn't a doctrine of The Wica.

I'm hethenotheist. Am I soft polytheist?

Debatable.
It'll help if you answer this question for me:
Is YHVH the Lord of the Isles?

Um, no, not really.  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Kashaku-Tatsu

One of my peeves is when people call all goddesses the same goddess under different names (yes I've heard that come out of the mouth of a wiccan priest acquaintance of mine, he actually told his student that Lilith, Hekate, Brighid and Damnu were all the goddess so didn't matter the name the person called her o_O).

This is called Soft Polytheism.

I'm curious as to what lineage this Priest held, since this isn't a doctrine of The Wica.

I'm hethenotheist. Am I soft polytheist?

Debatable.
It'll help if you answer this question for me:
Is YHVH the Lord of the Isles?

Um, no, not really.

Not a soft polytheist.  

[Yukroneanninja]

AngryRobotsInc.

Ignoring the god and goddess aspect, why can't it be both? Deities as independent entities, but also as aspects of something higher.

Yup. That's what I think. A bit of both.
Thanks for wording it for me mrgreen  

[TeaDidikai]

Yukroneanninja

AngryRobotsInc.

Ignoring the god and goddess aspect, why can't it be both? Deities as independent entities, but also as aspects of something higher.

Yup. That's what I think. A bit of both.
Thanks for wording it for me mrgreen

Usually this is known as Monistic Hard Polytheism, or Hard Polytheism with an Emanation Mythos.