Mythological Revisionism

[Fiddlers Green]

Slightly off topic, and I should, mayhaps, make a thread of it...
but why is Oath-breaking so often construed as something divinities either don't or can't do?  

[CuAnnan]

Fiddlers Green

Slightly off topic, and I should, mayhaps, make a thread of it...
but why is Oath-breaking so often construed as something divinities either don't or can't do?

In some cases it's because the Oaths are backed by Geas, or a culturally contextually similar concept.
In others they can and do  

[saint dreya]

CuAnnan

Fiddlers Green

Slightly off topic, and I should, mayhaps, make a thread of it...
but why is Oath-breaking so often construed as something divinities either don't or can't do?

In some cases it's because the Oaths are backed by Geas, or a culturally contextually similar concept.
In others they can and do

3nodding

Fiddler: Tyr can be an example of a deity that "broke" an oath, although he fully complied with a consequence to it. Depending on who you speak to, though, he still fulfilled the oath because he agreed that if they didn't release Fenrir, his hand could be bitten off (which he allowed when they didn't). It's a grey area between heathens on that account.

Cu, in the case of Geas, is it a guaranteed foreshadowing that they will break it? In the stories I remember, it seems that all the heroes would defy it in some way.  

[CuAnnan]

saint dreya

Cu, in the case of Geas, is it a guaranteed foreshadowing that they will break it?

No.

saint dreya

In the stories I remember, it seems that all the heroes would defy it in some way.

Many heroes break their Geas.
Gods know better.  

[Collowrath]

My impression is that the stories are demonstrating through the heroes the quality of a geas and the ramifications of breaking it. Essentially, it's an oath that you pledge your life to uphold - not upholding it makes your life forfeit; retaining the stories of heroes who broke the oath serves as a reminder to not make their mistake.  

[TeaDidikai]

CuAnnan

Fiddlers Green

Slightly off topic, and I should, mayhaps, make a thread of it...
but why is Oath-breaking so often construed as something divinities either don't or can't do?

In some cases it's because the Oaths are backed by Geas, or a culturally contextually similar concept.
In others they can and do

This is where I come down.

I know of many mythological traditions that show gods breaking oaths.
Within my tradition, I can usually check to see if someone's claims that they have been engaged by my gods is true with a very simple test.  

[Deoridhe]

Fiddlers Green

Slightly off topic, and I should, mayhaps, make a thread of it...
but why is Oath-breaking so often construed as something divinities either don't or can't do?

I've thought about it a lot, and I think this might be a hang-on from the concept that gods are/should be benevolent which has it's roots in modern Christianity.

Many of my gods are benevolent... to themselves. ninja Some might even condescend to be benevolent to me, if it didn't muck up their plans too much.

In interacting with a lot of neo-pagans (and newagers) I've found there is a strong thread of "The Universe is a wonderful place that is good and fair and loves you" which is hugely out of step with actual historical spiritual/religious beliefs but which is in step with some strands on Evangelical Christianity.

Makes me giggle, to be honest.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

I've thought about it a lot, and I think this might be a hang-on from the concept that gods are/should be benevolent which has it's roots in modern Christianity.

Many of my gods are benevolent... to themselves. ninja Some might even condescend to be benevolent to me, if it didn't muck up their plans too much.

In interacting with a lot of neo-pagans (and newagers) I've found there is a strong thread of "The Universe is a wonderful place that is good and fair and loves you" which is hugely out of step with actual historical spiritual/religious beliefs but which is in step with some strands on Evangelical Christianity.

Makes me giggle, to be honest.

I can see that.

And it confuses the ******** out of me- especially amongst Asatru Fluffs. I'm usually left thinking... "Dude, Tyr's missing a ******** hand!" gonk  

[IH_Zero]

I think every pantheon that is even remotely well known gets the "Everything is sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles!" treatment from the fluffs. I know the Kemetic deities get it something fierce. Especially Aset and Bast. And people ignoring the stories that involve brothers chopping each other up, sexual molestation, tricking someone into eating their own semen, and the fact that the afterlife can involve you ceasing to exist entirely.  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

I think every pantheon that is even remotely well known gets the "Everything is sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles!" treatment from the fluffs. I know the Kemetic deities get it something fierce. Especially Aset and Bast. And people ignoring the stories that involve brothers chopping each other up, sexual molestation, tricking someone into eating their own semen, and the fact that the afterlife can involve you ceasing to exist entirely.

And then you'll get into this weird dichotomy wherein the Ruling deity will become YHVH and the gods who give him s**t will become The Devil and it's all Christian Revisionism that is carried forward by pagans.  

[Wrath of Ezekiel]

AngryRobotsInc.

I think every pantheon that is even remotely well known gets the "Everything is sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles!" treatment from the fluffs. I know the Kemetic deities get it something fierce. Especially Aset and Bast. And people ignoring the stories that involve brothers chopping each other up, sexual molestation, tricking someone into eating their own semen, and the fact that the afterlife can involve you ceasing to exist entirely.

Set and Horus. That story stuck in my mind so much that whenever I hear: Egypt, gods, and sex in the same sentence, I think about that one. gonk

I understand that in school, they can't teach children about incest and sex, but try reading a children's version of Greek mythology and then reading one intended for adults or teenagers. ******** again for me a few years ago. xD  

[saint dreya]

True Colours of Destiny

AngryRobotsInc.

I think every pantheon that is even remotely well known gets the "Everything is sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles!" treatment from the fluffs. I know the Kemetic deities get it something fierce. Especially Aset and Bast. And people ignoring the stories that involve brothers chopping each other up, sexual molestation, tricking someone into eating their own semen, and the fact that the afterlife can involve you ceasing to exist entirely.

Set and Horus. That story stuck in my mind so much that whenever I hear: Egypt, gods, and sex in the same sentence, I think about that one. gonk

I understand that in school, they can't teach children about incest and sex, but try reading a children's version of Greek mythology and then reading one intended for adults or teenagers. ******** again for me a few years ago. xD

Hel, the children's version, or at least the Fourth Grade one, still picks apart the sanctity of marriage, encourages being "the other woman" and then overly harps on petty jealousies.

The rape...well, that was implicit if only because of my understanding of the world.  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

I've thought about it a lot, and I think this might be a hang-on from the concept that gods are/should be benevolent which has it's roots in modern Christianity.

Many of my gods are benevolent... to themselves. ninja Some might even condescend to be benevolent to me, if it didn't muck up their plans too much.

In interacting with a lot of neo-pagans (and newagers) I've found there is a strong thread of "The Universe is a wonderful place that is good and fair and loves you" which is hugely out of step with actual historical spiritual/religious beliefs but which is in step with some strands on Evangelical Christianity.

Makes me giggle, to be honest.

I can see that.

And it confuses the ******** out of me- especially amongst Asatru Fluffs. I'm usually left thinking... "Dude, Tyr's missing a ******** hand!" gonk

Yeah, well.... there's a reason scholarship is valued in Asatru. The tendencies to come to the new religion trying to keep everything that made you feel good from the last, and only see what makes you feel good in the new, is really insidious.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Yeah, well.... there's a reason scholarship is valued in Asatru. The tendencies to come to the new religion trying to keep everything that made you feel good from the last, and only see what makes you feel good in the new, is really insidious.

Generalization... fluffy Asatru scare me more than fluffy IRAB Wiccans. Most of those IRAB Wiccans still have something that boils down to Agape to keep them in check. gonk  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

Yeah, well.... there's a reason scholarship is valued in Asatru. The tendencies to come to the new religion trying to keep everything that made you feel good from the last, and only see what makes you feel good in the new, is really insidious.

Generalization... fluffy Asatru scare me more than fluffy IRAB Wiccans. Most of those IRAB Wiccans still have something that boils down to Agape to keep them in check. gonk

Fluffy Asatru are scary; there's a reason why many of the responsible of us are as bald and solidly condemning of racism as we are. I stand by the Niddstang against racism in the names of the gods, and had I the means I would erect one of my own, not just because racism is wrong but also as a means of setting myself - ourselves - apart from those who did murder in the name of ancestral pride.