Your Path and Ancestor Worship

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

You have several things. heart

You have trinkets for me? heart

saint dreya

I think I need further information on this. I think I remember hearing what this action was, but don't quite recall with the best of clarity.

gonk

Asatru tradition of spilling mead or other drink out onto the ground (or drinking it) in a toast to honor ancestors. Often done in formal groups within ritual, though as Deo suggests, more personal/private things can be done.

Fiddlers Green

Save that I don't display mine, I keep them locked away, safe.
I'm a selfish git like that.

Or smart.

I have some I keep to hand. I have some in a safe deposit box. Sorry, but a battered journal that saw it's better years before I was born does not belong on my book shelf to be knocked lovingly by other texts.  

[saint dreya]

TeaDidikai

Asatru tradition of spilling mead or other drink out onto the ground (or drinking it) in a toast to honor ancestors. Often done in formal groups within ritual, though as Deo suggests, more personal/private things can be done.

I have, as a general, however don't know what my great grandparents drank, and don't feel comfortable with too many alcohols for the boys...I could give some apple juice on their one year, though.

Otherwise, it's more edible stuff. My GG loved chocolate covered cherries. My Papa always tried smoking a pipe but never got the hang of it. So, I'll occasionally buy a box of the former, share a few with her, and buy some pipe tobacco and burn that for him.

Now that I think, I should probably write a poem for GG, too. She had written a poem for 3 of her Great Grandchildren.  

[Collowrath]

saint dreya

Otherwise, it's more edible stuff. My GG loved chocolate covered cherries. My Papa always tried smoking a pipe but never got the hang of it. So, I'll occasionally buy a box of the former, share a few with her, and buy some pipe tobacco and burn that for him.

My baba was a smoker. Sometimes, when I feel her presence, I share a cigarette with her. smile  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

saint dreya

Otherwise, it's more edible stuff. My GG loved chocolate covered cherries. My Papa always tried smoking a pipe but never got the hang of it. So, I'll occasionally buy a box of the former, share a few with her, and buy some pipe tobacco and burn that for him.

My baba was a smoker. Sometimes, when I feel her presence, I share a cigarette with her. smile

Nice. Both of you.

It does also give me pause for thought... might have to make a new thread.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

In Kemetic Orthodoxy we're supposed to have an Akhu shrine, either above the shrine for the gods or somewhere communal and lively like the kitchen or dining room. Pictures of the ancestors can be placed with images of Nut or Wesir, along with a candle or several. Honoring them generally involves lighting a candle for them, offering them cool water, speaking a blessing for them, or sharing a meal. We're not supposed to eat or drink anything that has been offered to the Akhu, although I know some people don't agree and do it anyway and don't have any problems, and dispose of it separately from anything else.

I don't actually have anything. I want to put up a shelf above our kitchen table with pictures and things but don't have the supplies yet, for either shelf or pictures. I don't know my predeceased family members very well. I can't recall ever meeting great-grandparents, and I only remember meeting my mother's father while I was a kid, and after that my mother stopped speaking to him and we never saw him again. I know we have pictures of an older woman who is a relative of my father's with me and my brother when we were quite small, but I don't know if that's my grandmother or a great-aunt or someone else entirely. For years I thought my mother's brother had died fairly young, and the man I called "Uncle" was my godfather but unrelated, but apparently he really is my uncle, as well as my godfather, and still alive in both capacities.

Akhu don't have to be blood relatives. They can be family members, or friends, or role models, or important people in the history of one's profession, hobbies, state, or nation. A coworker from a few years ago whom I was close to died this summer after a struggle with breast cancer, and I will put her picture up when I can get my shrine together.

My mother's parents were Kabalarian Philosophers so I don't really know how they would feel about it. I don't know about my dad's parents, but I think they were Lutheran or Episcopalian. I think I would feel comfortable honoring them in this way because I don't see it as "worship"...I have problems when I try to worship people, living or dead, and have learned to reserve that for god. But I can honor them by learning about and remembering them, and if they are somewhere that isn't conducive to communing with the living then that's fine, and if they are but they don't want to eat the food then that's fine too.

There's somewhat of a debate about whether we should honor Akhu who were not the most pleasant of people while alive. One viewpoint is that the dead are different; the weighing of the heart, or other rite of passage into an afterlife of some kind, changes/purifies them in important ways and they may be better people as Akhu than they were during their earthly life, and the living whom they wronged should forgive them and try to repair the relationship. Another viewpoint is that a person might have been deeply hurt in many ways by the Akh while they were alive, and the deeds done and the feelings created and the hurt and animosity don't just go away because the other person died. If you were abused in some way by a relative, for example, does that person deserve honor from you after death just because they died?

It's an interesting conundrum. My mother's father apparently had untreated bipolar disorder and was cruel and violent towards all three of his wives during bad spells (and probably his children, although my mom hasn't mentioned it)—which is why my mother eventually cut off contact. So I have mixed feelings about possibly displaying his picture in such a position of honor—let alone asking my mother for one!  

[TeaDidikai]

TheDisreputableDog

In Kemetic Orthodoxy we're supposed to have an Akhu shrine,

Out of pure curiosity, where is this drawn from?  

[IH_Zero]

TeaDidikai

TheDisreputableDog

In Kemetic Orthodoxy we're supposed to have an Akhu shrine,

Out of pure curiosity, where is this drawn from?

I can't speak for the Kemetic Orthodoxy, but I'd imagine the idea comes from the concept of second death. This can happen if the person is forgotten entirely, and ancestors names were honored/worshipped (it's rather ambiguous as to which it actually was) to prevent this.

It doesn't take into account that there exist ritual spells to prevent second death, or that it was commonly understood that one could become Akh only if their body was preserved (mummified).  

[TeaDidikai]

I'm simply curious about the source.

Having an established tradition like that seems interesting, but I'm wondering where it came from. Archeological/Anthropological sources or...?  

[IH_Zero]

TeaDidikai

I'm simply curious about the source.

Having an established tradition like that seems interesting, but I'm wondering where it came from. Archeological/Anthropological sources or...?

As far as I know, a lot of the traditions in the KO come from UPG on the part of Rev. Siuda. Possibly SPG, through other KO members. But then, I'm not KO, so DD will be able to answer that one far better than I am able to.

ETA:
Writing by Rev. Siuda on the tradition.  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

TeaDidikai

I'm simply curious about the source.

Having an established tradition like that seems interesting, but I'm wondering where it came from. Archeological/Anthropological sources or...?

As far as I know, a lot of the traditions in the KO come from UPG on the part of Rev. Siuda. Possibly SPG, through other KO members. But then, I'm not KO, so DD will be able to answer that one far better than I am able to.

ETA:
Writing by Rev. Siuda on the tradition.

Interesting... I don't see a source. ninja

Also? She is not old enough to be my mother.  

[IH_Zero]

TeaDidikai

Interesting... I don't see a source. ninja

Also? She is not old enough to be my mother.

Not old to be mine either, unless she had me as a very young teen. If that was written in 2005 (being the most recent, and the last copywrite is 2005, I assume it was), she'd had have been 14 to be my mother.

And she seems to fail to realize that as Nesu-Bit/Pharaoh, what she says is gospel. Seeing as she's supposed to be the earthly incarnation of Heru, and all.  

[Collowrath]

AngryRobotsInc.

TeaDidikai

Interesting... I don't see a source. ninja

Also? She is not old enough to be my mother.

Not old to be mine either, unless she had me as a very young teen. If that was written in 2005 (being the most recent, and the last copywrite is 2005, I assume it was), she'd had have been 14 to be my mother.

And she seems to fail to realize that as Nesu-Bit/Pharaoh, what she says is gospel. Seeing as she's supposed to be the earthly incarnation of Heru, and all.

Seems to me like she's not quite the pharaoh then. :/  

[scorplett]

I don't tend to keep images, but I do keep keepsakes... strange little curios that belonged to or were used by the ancestor I knew... Sometimes I visit places associated with them, their graves, their homes or their homeplace. Visiting the Island is a very important part of my ancestor work.

Regardless of having known them or not, I was raised to have a dumb supper on All Hallows/ Halloween / Samhain and prepare the best cut of the meal for the ancestors plate.

Perhaps it's this cultural tradition that has influenced my primary means of ancestor worship, which is one of offering and libation.
I never ask of or for anything from ancestors, I see my job as simply acknowledging, honouring and accepting whatever they deem approriate.

There are other specifics with relation to other traditions, but my cultural traditions are stronger for me with regards to ancestors.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Tea & AngryRobotsInc.,

With the caveat that I am not actually a KO member—after two-and-a-half years of interacting with them, I'm interested but am still not sure I really want to officially join—it's hard to tell sometimes where their traditions come from. It's not exactly Kemetic recon; some things are drawn from historical research, some things are kind of meshed in from Rev. Siuda's other spiritual backgrounds which are more in the Afro-Caribbean traditions, and some things are devised by Rev. Siuda according to her as inspired by the gods or in order to create a more cohesive modern faith.

So, for example, I have no idea whether it was a tradition in any area or period of ancient Egyptian history to do ritual possessions of priests by the gods, but KO does this. Most of the prayers and such that I have acquaintance with are either Rev. Suida's own translations of ancient texts, or new writings by members including Rev. Siuda. Honestly, I suck at this kind of research so most of the things I do are UPG, but many of the priests are either Egyptologists or do a lot of research into language, culture, and history on their own time.

To the Akhu shrine specifically, I don't know for sure. My instinct is that it probably has a few aspects that are derived from ancient sources, blended with Voudou inspiration, Rev. Siuda's personal tastes, instructions from the gods, and alterations based on differences between ancient Kemet and modern KO. Senut, for example, is inspired by ancient state temple rituals and incorporates Rev. Siuda's transliterations of some ancient texts but was never practiced historically; it was created because the religion is small and far-flung, there is only one temple, and most adherents only have a chance to physically come together with others a few times a year or not at all, so an individual ritual was created to stand in for going to your town's temple to get the priests to make an offering for you.

My hope is that more of these things are explained in the Beginner's Class which I have yet to take. I've kind of stuck with KO so far because I've made friends with many of the members, it gives me Kemetic pagan people to talk to, and the other Kemetic recon groups I've managed to find on the internet at least are nearly inactive and I don't have any local ones...some of the things they do still have me confused.  

[TeaDidikai]

Fair enough. Thanks.