Starting fresh, all over again

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

I feel it's trivial, essentially, because if fluff-i-fied, space-cased, flake-a-zoids can get results praying to a non-existant parking space god then, in all reality, whether South is Fire or Water is somewhat non-essential; it's the focus, drive, and determination of the person involved.

Are they getting results or are they getting coincidence.

See, there are two types of coincidence, things that coincide because of causation- one causes the other, and then there are things that coincide because statistics say that if you spend your whole life jumping up and down on one foot, one day while jumping up and down on one foot, you'll find a dollar on the ground. Jumping up and down wasn't what caused you to find the dollar though.

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However, I have no desire to steal, butcher, and debauch anything...but I'm never quite certain what is time-honored tradition and what is open to interpretation.

It's only really an issue when you're working with specific traditions. Until you find a tradition, the details won't matter because there won't be any context.

You don't worry about how you eat your bread and drink your water on a daily basis. But if you're in an LDS Temple, the context is very different from daily life. Until you're there, it doesn't matter because you aren't in a position to practice.

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Yes, but when it comes to more ethereal matters, I really feel like I lack a good set of tool for testing the material. So it's really a lack of feeling capable rather then desire.

Tool sets for testing include source material for the given tradition, others you work with spiritually, a good BS detector, and self awareness. The last one is important because it's easy to fool oneself until you learn the difference between yourself and the world around you.

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Everytime I want to go with the flow and just see what works, the more function and organizational side of me wants everything to fit into nice neat rows before I start.

Needless to say it's a big, pain in the a**, personality flaw.

I don't consider it a personality flaw. It looks more like the flow of the creative process.

Think of writing ritual like writing a story. You get a general idea of what you want to write about- this is the goal of your spiritual working.

Then you get additional ideas that flesh out the basic idea.

You then add on description and dialogue- these are the details and the why's of what you are doing.

Finally, you read, re-read, revamp, edit, re-read, step away, come back, reread etc until you have a piece that your editor says it ready to go to the presses.

In place of actual editors, you could for all intents and purposes bounce it off someone you trust spiritually for feedback- or hell, post it in the guild for open comment.

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Damn, nice metaphor.

So, in other words, if I have no established tradition....anyway that makes sense will be right and I won't be stepping on anyone's toes?

Pretty much. Be mindful of where you lift things from, but save for that- have at it.

The editor etc will help put things in perspective.

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I think a lot of my problems stem from just being afraid to get it wrong in the first place, so I get gun shy of starting anything at all.

If it makes you feel any better, I mispronounced the names of some key figures in my religion for the better part of my youth.  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

(everything)

Thanks....that all helps a whole lot. biggrin  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

TeaDidikai

(everything)

Thanks....that all helps a whole lot. biggrin

Welcome.  

[Kuroiban]

I thought of some addendums and additional thoughts...

TeaDidikai

Are they getting results or are they getting coincidence.

See, there are two types of coincidence, things that coincide because of causation- one causes the other, and then there are things that coincide because statistics say that if you spend your whole life jumping up and down on one foot, one day while jumping up and down on one foot, you'll find a dollar on the ground. Jumping up and down wasn't what caused you to find the dollar though.

I thought about this one a lot over the last day or two.

Belief can influence the world around us. That is one major theory in (I believe so at least) a majority of magical and ritualistic systems. Granted, their fluffy idiots, but they don't believe they're fluffy idiots.

Now they can believe anything they want....that doesn't make it so of course. However how much belief would it take to vacate a parking spot for five seconds? Just a thought.

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If it makes you feel any better, I mispronounced the names of some key figures in my religion for the better part of my youth.

Wanted to comment on this in particular; yes, it actually makes me feel a lot better because I'm ALWAYS worried about mispronouncing things. sweatdrop  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

However how much belief would it take to vacate a parking spot for five seconds?

Enough to conquer the overwhelming drone of everyone else wishing to have that parking spot, including the desire for the individual whose care is there to remain on their scheduled course.

Is someone having a momentary desire going to suddenly pull dozens of people from their business? Are teens going to move like zombie hordes through the mall to their cars on a Saturday afternoon just because someone wants them to move their car?

The day that belief alone will actually effect objective reality is the day all those Nutters watch YHVH manifest and begin the End Times.

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Wanted to comment on this in particular; yes, it actually makes me feel a lot better because I'm ALWAYS worried about mispronouncing things. sweatdrop

I'll PM you some info about it.  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

Kuroiban

However how much belief would it take to vacate a parking spot for five seconds?

Enough to conquer the overwhelming drone of everyone else wishing to have that parking spot, including the desire for the individual whose care is there to remain on their scheduled course.

Is someone having a momentary desire going to suddenly pull dozens of people from their business? Are teens going to move like zombie hordes through the mall to their cars on a Saturday afternoon just because someone wants them to move their car?

The day that belief alone will actually effect objective reality is the day all those Nutters watch YHVH manifest and begin the End Times.

Good point.

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Wanted to comment on this in particular; yes, it actually makes me feel a lot better because I'm ALWAYS worried about mispronouncing things. sweatdrop

I'll PM you some info about it.

Cool!  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

Good point.

I can't begin to fathom what it would be like if mere belief could change objective reality. burning_eyes  

[Kuroiban]

So....update.

I've looked into various reconstructionalisms while coming up with something to serve purposes until the time comes to devote myself to something in earnest.

Problem comes that I've poked around limitedly with "The Poetic Edda" and "The Prose Edda" and have almost no idea what I read. Reading up on other recon paths has seem to harvest equally cement-dense fruit. So I'm sorta at a loss. I don't know enough to walk away from the orchard, but I have no idea how to crack open the fruits that sit before me.

Any advice?  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

Problem comes that I've poked around limitedly with "The Poetic Edda" and "The Prose Edda" and have almost no idea what I read. Reading up on other recon paths has seem to harvest equally cement-dense fruit. So I'm sorta at a loss. I don't know enough to walk away from the orchard, but I have no idea how to crack open the fruits that sit before me.

Any advice?

In this very specific case (this is by no means a general endorsement) I would start off by using a second hand source for the cultural myths you want to investigate. Instead of using a direct translation, read a modern retelling of the myths in order for you to get your bearings.

Keep a few dozen salt licks handy and be prepared to unlearn and relearn the material from a more accurate source at a later date. Also plan to start a thread wherein you ask people who are familiar with the source texts to explain things you don't understand and where able, offer personal insight based on their research.

Also plan to revisit the source texts at a later date.

This is usually the last thing I would suggest for someone, but I have a fair amount of faith in you and I think that if you developed an overarching understanding of the myths, you would be able to apply your BS detector and the scholarly information and educated opinions of others to undo some of the misrepresentation that you may end up with after going through the cultural filters and personal perspectives of the authors who penned the retellings.  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

In this very specific case (this is by no means a general endorsement) I would start off by using a second hand source for the cultural myths you want to investigate. Instead of using a direct translation, read a modern retelling of the myths in order for you to get your bearings.

Keep a few dozen salt licks handy and be prepared to unlearn and relearn the material from a more accurate source at a later date. Also plan to start a thread wherein you ask people who are familiar with the source texts to explain things you don't understand and where able, offer personal insight based on their research.

Also plan to revisit the source texts at a later date.

This is usually the last thing I would suggest for someone, but I have a fair amount of faith in you and I think that if you developed an overarching understanding of the myths, you would be able to apply your BS detector and the scholarly information and educated opinions of others to undo some of the misrepresentation that you may end up with after going through the cultural filters and personal perspectives of the authors who penned the retellings.

Good idea. Never would have thought of that. Thanks! mrgreen  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

Good idea. Never would have thought of that. Thanks! mrgreen

Welcome.

Now- which groups of mythos are you looking at currently. Maybe we can offer some advice about which retellings to start off with.  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

Kuroiban

Good idea. Never would have thought of that. Thanks! mrgreen

Welcome.

Now- which groups of mythos are you looking at currently. Maybe we can offer some advice about which retellings to start off with.

Well, I've been trying to do some research on Norse/Astaru, but that was a gigantic failure at ye local Barnes and Nobles today....one damn book on Vikings was all I could find. Nothing about the mythology or creation story specifically. I found a depressing number of books on pirates, and holy crap are there a lot of books on Celtic lore! On Norse however I couldn't find a damn thing, so a pointer in the right direction there would be much appreciated.

Incidentally, the same trip yielded a book on I Ching that I bought without almost no thought; my old book has a sort of literal translation, with no real meat and bones context to really sort anything out. The new book is 800 pages of raw material, with about 10-15 pages per hexagram. BLISS!

Anyhoo, I'm also interested in doing some research on Roman and Greek Reconstruction, which I'm to understand are different but I really no nothing about. I took your advice and did a little research on Slavic recon, but found nothing I was particularly interested in there.

At this point, I'm trying to stay open minded though; I'm not striking anything out. I'm looking for something to set off some spirtual/mental fireworks to kind of lead me in the right direction. I found the Eddas very stirring, even though I was only getting the very barest gist of what the hell was going on, so Norse Recon has my the greatest portion of my attention right now.  

[TeaDidikai]

This would basically be Norse Myth lv 97

When you're ready to transition, this one might be useful.

Which region of Slavic Myth did you investigate?

Not the best for Hellenic, but I can't find the other title I was thinking of  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

This would basically be Norse Myth lv 97

When you're ready to transition, this one might be useful.

Which region of Slavic Myth did you investigate?

Not the best for Hellenic, but I can't find the other title I was thinking of

Good starts for me it would seem. Come next paycheck I'll have to spend some time with Amazon.com...  

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

Good starts for me it would seem. Come next paycheck I'll have to spend some time with Amazon.com...

Could support local businesses instead... ninja