Christo-Paganism, Syncretic Faiths, Mysticism and You

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

The missing component I think, in my case, is that I don't feel Christ is necessary.

There are Christian sects that agree with this position. Basically, Yeshua was an educator, prophet and example, not a Blood Sacrifice.

In fact, there are reconstructionists Christians who completely reject the idea on the basis that any element of humanity present in Yeshua (to say nothing of the fact that the Messiah isn't said to be part deity in the Tanakh) would have in and of itself voided the sacrifice since human sacrifice was strictly forbidden and that YHVH by his nature is not a deity given to direct falsehoods.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

The missing component I think, in my case, is that I don't feel Christ is necessary.

There are Christian sects that agree with this position. Basically, Yeshua was an educator, prophet and example, not a Blood Sacrifice.

In fact, there are reconstructionists Christians who completely reject the idea on the basis that any element of humanity present in Yeshua (to say nothing of the fact that the Messiah isn't said to be part deity in the Tanakh) would have in and of itself voided the sacrifice since human sacrifice was strictly forbidden and that YHVH by his nature is not a deity given to direct falsehoods.

I guess my criticisms only seem to apply to mainstream Christianity - which is part of my fence-sitting on Dveviere.

I had a big post typed out about it, but it boils down to: I'm confused. I'm not sure how Dveviere works in tandem with Christendom. My mind wants to separate Pagan and Christian, but neither of the two seem to want to cooperate, within the Slavic context specifically.  

[TeaDidikai]

My research has suggested that the very early forms of Dveviere were hard polytheistic, accepting the new god as just another to be worshiped along side the gods already present in the given Slavic groupings (on the familial, community and national level).

Two villages over might have a completely different pantheon with a bit of overlap amongst the major deities. The idea of introducing some other god into the mix wasn't that strange.

Yeshua's message of Agape isn't internally inconsistent and in a context where you are not one of the Lost Sheep of Israel whom Yeshua is here for directly.  

[Collowrath]

In which case, that is already internally consistent with my current practice. My Hellenic practice, my Slavic practice (which is limited), and my Slovak Catholic cultural practices are entirely separate.

This has led to a lot of confusion in my private life with the people close to me (not to mention, myself, at times). They don't understand how I can fast for Lent at the same time I give offerings to Greek deities and sacrifice Morena for Maslenica. My internal justification for it was just that various seasonal rituals for different, distinct deities happened to over lap.

The huge variety in ancient Slavic religion is hugely beneficial for me. My first hand experience is mostly through extended/adoptive family - see, they're American Indian, and my "aunt" is of Mexican extraction. Seeing how the Mexican Catholic/Native syncretism works first hand helps me a little in understanding my own ethnic practices. Unfortunately, there are times when it muddies the waters when trying to translate from one culture to another entirely unrelated one, though. Essentially, that variety among Slavs in the first place helps me to feel better when my own understanding doesn't necessarily line up with someone else's.  

[TeaDidikai]

Fair enough man.

Do you have any other elements from your practice that you could outline for the Lurkers?  

[Gho the Girl]

Collowrath

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

I have irreconcilable disagreements with Christian orthodoxy

Such as?

Well, foremost, I don't believe in the need for salvation of the soul, nor salvation through Christ. I disagree with Christian conceptions of deity.

I'm a heretical Christian, and I don't believe in salvation either.  

[saint dreya]

Illiezeulette

downside is that people practicing "Christian Wicca" aren't legitimately Wiccan, and even though i have pointed this out to them, one of them has claimed that "lineage doesn't mean knowledge." denotation-wise? sure. but within Wicca, isn't the knowledge of correct practice come through...oh, lineage? argh. there's also this "i am college-educated and therefore must know more than any of you other people" mentality going around. ick.

you mean they don't see the conflict with the fact that YHVH and the Lord & Lady each request to be first in worship?

i'm having trouble understanding how one can be called to be a priest to the Lord & Lady yet still be sheep to Yeshua...  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Fair enough man.

Do you have any other elements from your practice that you could outline for the Lurkers?

What elements would you like to hear about, exactly?  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

I'm a heretical Christian, and I don't believe in salvation either.

How are you defining salvation?

saint dreya

you mean they don't see the conflict with the fact that YHVH and the Lord & Lady each request to be first in worship?

Is this the case? I ask because to the best of my knowledge, the Wica become dedicated to the Lord and Lady, but there isn't a mandate on who is to be served before whom- only that within the rituals of the Wica, it is the Wica alone that are worshiped there.

Quote:

i'm having trouble understanding how one can be called to be a priest to the Lord & Lady yet still be sheep to Yeshua...

Gardner talked about people who served the gods of the witches, yet were Christian. He didn't understand it either. But then, our inability to fathom something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Collowrath

What elements would you like to hear about, exactly?

Have you found any place wherein the overlap provides a crystallization point for gnosis?

Do you find some practices can take the place of others wholesale? Any overlap in your sacramentals?  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

What elements would you like to hear about, exactly?

Have you found any place wherein the overlap provides a crystallization point for gnosis?

Do you find some practices can take the place of others wholesale? Any overlap in your sacramentals?

What do you mean by "crystallization point for gnosis?"

Some practices definitely take the place of others. As I said before, I'm not a Christian, but I do maintain some Christian, specifically Catholic, practices throughout the year. I fast for Lent. There are a number of food traditions within Slovak culture that are tied to Catholic feasts, particularly in the realm of cookies and nut rolls. smile These practices are cultural and supplanted by religious practices often. For instance, another cultural feast falls during Lent - Maslenica.

Often Maslenica is celebrated before the onset of Lent. I celebrate it on the Spring Equinox. It commemorates the end of winter, the return of Bieloboh. The end of winter is solidified with the sacrifice of Morena, Jarilo's twin sister. We make pisanky and bury them for luck and abundance. My family has a big meal, some cultural foods, some other favorites. We leave a plate for our loved ones who have passed on.

The next day, at least for this year, I went right back to fasting for the last week of Lent.

On top of cultural and Slavic pagan traditions, Hellenic ones will take precedence. Hellenic deities are very sensitive to bodily purity, and so I maintain that to the best of my ability. I'm probably more sensitive to it than most Hellenics that I know of. Most of my daily, or even monthly, practice is devoted to Hellenic gods - lately, to Hermes. I follow the Hellenic Month Established Per Athens and those festivals that pertain to me. Many of these practices are very private, and nobody among my family or friends take part.

I try to maintain the Hellenic practice separate from others, unless it violates my bodily purity.  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

What do you mean by "crystallization point for gnosis?"

Sorry, I keep forgetting people don't have the same mental imagery that I do.

I keep meaning to get back to this, and I promise that I will in more detail, but I would like to thank you for what you have shared thus far.  

[Fiddlers Green]

My religion was very nearly wiped out by raving packs of Shem's followers.
Is it right to adjucate a deity using the actions of it's followers?
Or does it merely reflect on how impotent/unconcerned the divinity is?

For my part, I've seen much more Crystal Dragon Jesus than actual theological mergings.
Altho I do find it curious which "heretical" Christian sects became considered "pagan" after the ecumenical councils had their way with the religion as a whole.

A part of me wants to blame the Hermetics for their liberal use of Universal Unitarian ideals, but I can't in good conscience. Especially with the assimilation sprees that had happened all over Europe for centuries. confused  

[DruidWitch82]

There's also (neo) Gnosticism, which, in modern-day practice, separates the True God from the creator lesser deity, and views Jesus more as a Buddha-like wayshower who comes from the True God.  

[rmcdra]

insanedramatic

There's also (neo) Gnosticism, which, in modern-day practice, separates the True God from the creator lesser deity, and views Jesus more as a Buddha-like wayshower who comes from the True God.

If anything it goes to show that "pagan" is a bad term to describe a religion considering that technically gnosticism stems from pre-Christianity  

[Recursive Paradox]

The fact that worship of any being is implicitly (not explicitly anymore mostly because worship is a squishy defined word) forbidden in Etherism makes it a little hard to mix with Christianity.

However, I'm perfectly capable of acknowledging YHVH as a being. I'm not terribly inclined to want to work with him or his followers, mostly because I cut ties rather abruptly (through oathbreaking including cutting ties post Confirmation in the Catholic faith). Then there's also the fact that I'm not terribly sure he would be okay with a barter relationship of energy work for energy work, which is the only type of relationship I would likely consent to with a deity.