Defluffing: Why "I believe, thus it's right for me" is wrong

[Gho the Girl]

Can I post this in my thread? It would help to ward off DearSX and his fluffy fuzzy wuzzy cuddly wuddly coochie coochie coo bunny bull.  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

Can I post this in my thread? It would help to ward off DearSX and his fluffy fuzzy wuzzy cuddly wuddly coochie coochie coo bunny bull.

Sure- just don't credit it to me.  

[Gho the Girl]

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

Can I post this in my thread? It would help to ward off DearSX and his fluffy fuzzy wuzzy cuddly wuddly coochie coochie coo bunny bull.

Sure- just don't credit it to me.

Sure. Should I credit it to someone else? I couldn't take credit for it.  

[Tirpse]

I've read this entire thread, but I still feel that, when faced with someone who is challenging your beliefs, the phrase "What I believe in is right for me, what you believe in is right for you" (or some variation) still works as a phrase, no matter how many different ways you can prove it to be self-contradictory.  

[TeaDidikai]

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

I've read this entire thread, but I still feel that, when faced with someone who is challenging your beliefs, the phrase "What I believe in is right for me, what you believe in is right for you" (or some variation) still works as a phrase, no matter how many different ways you can prove it to be self-contradictory.

Okay- then prove it is a valid statement.

Because here's the thing. If the only reason you want to cling to subjective reality is because it gives you warm fuzzies, you're in the wrong place.

This is one of the defining elements of a Fluff.

Reason demonstrates a position is incorrect. You cling to willful ignorance of these facts because it's what you want, not what's right.

Oh- by the way, raping little children is thrown into subjective morality on a regular basis by people who use the title of Wicca.

I guess you're in complete support of them as well huh?  

[Recursive Paradox]

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

I've read this entire thread, but I still feel that, when faced with someone who is challenging your beliefs, the phrase "What I believe in is right for me, what you believe in is right for you" (or some variation) still works as a phrase, no matter how many different ways you can prove it to be self-contradictory.

I think you're a little confused as to what is being said. People are claiming that there is no objective reality so that things that are definitely wrong can be used by them as correct or right.

That's very different from having a method or system that works for you and poorly for others. Which is what you're citing here correct? Like how some people use artistic rituals and others use spoken word and neither one is right or wrong? That's not what we're discussing here.  

[Gho the Girl]

Question: What Tea just said got me thinking. I've been believing in reincarnation for some time, but honestly, I chose that as it gave me the most comfort. It makes some amount of sense within my faith, but the idea that we all reincarnate to experience all things, that there is some goal we're all spiritually reaching for, I'm not sure this makes sense. In my cosmology, nearly everything has souls. Where do they all come from? Why is it that we have a growing number of souls on this planet? Why do these souls get both more complex and less complex? How do ghosts fit into this?

Gahhh, sorry, rambling. I'm not posing these questions to any but myself.  

[Tirpse]

TeaDidikai

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

I've read this entire thread, but I still feel that, when faced with someone who is challenging your beliefs, the phrase "What I believe in is right for me, what you believe in is right for you" (or some variation) still works as a phrase, no matter how many different ways you can prove it to be self-contradictory.

Okay- then prove it is a valid statement.

Because here's the thing. If the only reason you want to cling to subjective reality is because it gives you warm fuzzies, you're in the wrong place.

This is one of the defining elements of a Fluff.

Reason demonstrates a position is incorrect. You cling to willful ignorance of these facts because it's what you want, not what's right.

Oh- by the way, raping little children is thrown into subjective morality on a regular basis by people who use the title of Wicca.

I guess you're in complete support of them as well huh?

There is no need for you to be rude towards me when all I've done is express my opinion. I was not being rude in any way, and I would ask that you please show me that same respect the next time you reply to me. I do not support rape of any kind, to anyone, and I would appreciate you not making those assumptions about me.

I cannot prove that my statement is valid, only that it is my opinion, despite what has been discussed in this thread. I do not cling to subjective reality because it gives me warm fuzzies; my beliefs are my own, and they work for me. They may not work as well for another, and that's fine. That is what I am saying. The things I believe in are right for me. I can't say the same thing about another person. I don't see how that makes any other belief wrong. If this isn't what the topic of this thread is, I apologize, I must have misread things.  

[Gho the Girl]

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

TeaDidikai

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

I've read this entire thread, but I still feel that, when faced with someone who is challenging your beliefs, the phrase "What I believe in is right for me, what you believe in is right for you" (or some variation) still works as a phrase, no matter how many different ways you can prove it to be self-contradictory.

Okay- then prove it is a valid statement.

Because here's the thing. If the only reason you want to cling to subjective reality is because it gives you warm fuzzies, you're in the wrong place.

This is one of the defining elements of a Fluff.

Reason demonstrates a position is incorrect. You cling to willful ignorance of these facts because it's what you want, not what's right.

Oh- by the way, raping little children is thrown into subjective morality on a regular basis by people who use the title of Wicca.

I guess you're in complete support of them as well huh?

There is no need for you to be rude towards me when all I've done is express my opinion. I was not being rude in any way, and I would ask that you please show me that same respect the next time you reply to me. I do not support rape of any kind, to anyone, and I would appreciate you not making those assumptions about me.

She wasn't bein disrespectful towards you. She was pointing out a flaw in your argument. By extrapolating your argument, those who rape children in rituals for their faith have an element of validity, as your argument is "this is what works for me, so it's ok." This isn't necessarily to say that you do support these things, merely that the full consequences of such an argument are that such vile activities suddenly have this need to be respected.

Quote:

I cannot prove that my statement is valid, only that it is my opinion, despite what has been discussed in this thread.

So, do you admit that the opinion is logically and mayhap theologically flawed, or is this an example of "I don't care what you say, I do what I want?"

Quote:

I do not cling to subjective reality because it gives me warm fuzzies; my beliefs are my own, and they work for me.

That's seems a little contradictory, depending upon what you mean.

Quote:

They may not work as well for another, and that's fine. That is what I am saying. The things I believe in are right for me. I can't say the same thing about another person. I don't see how that makes any other belief wrong. If this isn't what the topic of this thread is, I apologize, I must have misread things.

Here's the issue with that line of thought:

"I have non-consensual sex with bound children as a ritual to my fertility gods"

"But, that's horrible! That's awful! That's wrong!"

"My ritual may not work as well for you, and that's fine, this thing I believe and do is right for me, I can't say the same thing about anyone else, but I don't see how that makes what I'm doing wrong."

Do you see the full implications of your statements?  

[Recursive Paradox]

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

I do not cling to subjective reality because it gives me warm fuzzies; my beliefs are my own, and they work for me. They may not work as well for another, and that's fine. That is what I am saying.

I think you're confused. We're discussing people who claim their beliefs are correct (i.e. they represent reality) through making claims of a subjective reality. Say if someone thought that all gods were literally one god-combination. They claimed that said belief is true, despite there being instances of contradictory gods and gods that are incompatible and all the beliefs that go against that claim and used reality being subjective as a basis. This is what this topic is on.

But it does extend itself to your topic just a little. Just because a set of beliefs work for you and not others doesn't mean they're necessary a good thing. For some people, the belief that killing people and eating their hearts will give them their strength is a major part of their worldview. One can not simply say, "well killing them and eating their hearts just isn't for you, so don't get upset about it"

I damn well will get upset about someone running around murdering people and then cannibalizing their victims. Some beliefs are simply not acceptable by any system of workable ethics.

It doesn't matter if those beliefs are good for someone else. If they are unjustifiably damaging to others then they are bad beliefs and need to be struck down.

So in both cases the phrase "it's right for me and not right for you" doesn't really justify anything if there is a major ethical issue with a belief or the belief is patently contradictory or incorrect.  

[Tirpse]

Gho the Girl

*snip*

So, do you admit that the opinion is logically and mayhap theologically flawed, or is this an example of "I don't care what you say, I do what I want?"

Quote:

I do not cling to subjective reality because it gives me warm fuzzies; my beliefs are my own, and they work for me.

That's seems a little contradictory, depending upon what you mean.

Quote:

They may not work as well for another, and that's fine. That is what I am saying. The things I believe in are right for me. I can't say the same thing about another person. I don't see how that makes any other belief wrong. If this isn't what the topic of this thread is, I apologize, I must have misread things.

Here's the issue with that line of thought:

"I have non-consensual sex with bound children as a ritual to my fertility gods"

"But, that's horrible! That's awful! That's wrong!"

"My ritual may not work as well for you, and that's fine, this thing I believe and do is right for me, I can't say the same thing about anyone else, but I don't see how that makes what I'm doing wrong."

Do you see the full implications of your statements?

Yes, I see the implications now. I hadn't thought of any of that before, same with Recursive Paradox's example. My opinion is flawed. I haven't ever given it much thought past figuring, "Who am I to judge? If this method of worship (or what have you) works for you and fulfills you, who am I to place the blame?" I see now where this viewpoint isn't enough.

Thank you :]  

[Gho the Girl]

Nutmeg the Nerdfighter

Gho the Girl

*snip*

So, do you admit that the opinion is logically and mayhap theologically flawed, or is this an example of "I don't care what you say, I do what I want?"

Quote:

I do not cling to subjective reality because it gives me warm fuzzies; my beliefs are my own, and they work for me.

That's seems a little contradictory, depending upon what you mean.

Quote:

They may not work as well for another, and that's fine. That is what I am saying. The things I believe in are right for me. I can't say the same thing about another person. I don't see how that makes any other belief wrong. If this isn't what the topic of this thread is, I apologize, I must have misread things.

Here's the issue with that line of thought:

"I have non-consensual sex with bound children as a ritual to my fertility gods"

"But, that's horrible! That's awful! That's wrong!"

"My ritual may not work as well for you, and that's fine, this thing I believe and do is right for me, I can't say the same thing about anyone else, but I don't see how that makes what I'm doing wrong."

Do you see the full implications of your statements?

Yes, I see the implications now. I hadn't thought of any of that before, same with Recursive Paradox's example. My opinion is flawed. I haven't ever given it much thought past figuring, "Who am I to judge? If this method of worship (or what have you) works for you and fulfills you, who am I to place the blame?" I see now where this viewpoint isn't enough.

Thank you :]

You're very welcome, glad I could be of some use. 3nodding  

[Recursive Paradox]

Another person saved by PFRC fast intervention! <3  

[TatteredAngel]

Here's a question I don't have a good answer to, maybe y'all can help me out.

Where do you go when logical argument has failed? For some people who strongly believe in something, even if that something is monstrously wrong, how do you combat it after they've rejected logic? Is there anything left, or do you just have to chalk it up as a loss?  

[Gho the Girl]

Recursive Paradox

Another person saved by PFRC fast intervention! <3

We should get tee shirts.

Or rather Tea shirts.

Mwahahaha