Suicide

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

Hmmm... im going to consult my Catechism on this one *pages flipping Aha! heres what it says

SUICIDE

LUTHER'S SMALL CATECHISM. Question 52. What does god forbid in the Fifth comandment?

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.
Jer. 31:3 The lord appeared to us in the past, saying:
"I have loved you with a everlasting love; i have drawn
you with loving kindness."
Deut. 32:39 See now that i myself am he! there is
no god besides me. i put to death and i bring to life, I
have wounded and i will heal, and no one can deliver
out of my hand

 

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Hmmm... im going to consult my Catechism on this one *pages flipping Aha! heres what it says

SUICIDE

LUTHER'S SMALL CATECHISM. Question 52. What does god forbid in the Fifth comandment?

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.
Jer. 31:3 The lord appeared to us in the past, saying:
"I have loved you with a everlasting love; i have drawn
you with loving kindness."
Deut. 32:39 See now that i myself am he! there is
no god besides me. i put to death and i bring to life, I
have wounded and i will heal, and no one can deliver
out of my hand

I am having a little trouble finding reference to suicide in that quote.  

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

Priestley

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Hmmm... im going to consult my Catechism on this one *pages flipping Aha! heres what it says

SUICIDE

LUTHER'S SMALL CATECHISM. Question 52. What does god forbid in the Fifth comandment?

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.
Jer. 31:3 The lord appeared to us in the past, saying:
"I have loved you with a everlasting love; i have drawn
you with loving kindness."
Deut. 32:39 See now that i myself am he! there is
no god besides me. i put to death and i bring to life, I
have wounded and i will heal, and no one can deliver
out of my hand

I am having a little trouble finding reference to suicide in that quote.

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.

Deut. 32:39 See now that i myself am he! there is
no god besides me. i put to death and i bring to life, I
have wounded and i will heal, and no one can deliver
out of my hand
 

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

My Catechism zooms through Suicide its very brief but to the point.  

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Priestley

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Hmmm... im going to consult my Catechism on this one *pages flipping Aha! heres what it says

SUICIDE

LUTHER'S SMALL CATECHISM. Question 52. What does god forbid in the Fifth comandment?

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.
Jer. 31:3 The lord appeared to us in the past, saying:
"I have loved you with a everlasting love; i have drawn
you with loving kindness."
Deut. 32:39 See now that i myself am he! there is
no god besides me. i put to death and i bring to life, I
have wounded and i will heal, and no one can deliver
out of my hand

I am having a little trouble finding reference to suicide in that quote.

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.

Deut. 32:39 See now that i myself am he! there is
no god besides me. i put to death and i bring to life, I
have wounded and i will heal, and no one can deliver
out of my hand

This says that God has ultimate control over life and death, i.e. if something is dead, God can bring it to life and if it lives, God can kill it. It says nothing of the sinfulness or righteousness of suicide.  

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

My Catechism zooms through Suicide its very brief but to the point.

In this case, it unfortunately misses the mark.  

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

*Sigh* your not getting it


my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.

no one can deliver out of my hand

i put to death

this says God is the only one that should claim lives this goes for suicide to you cannot claim your own life. Government is the only exeption they can kill criminals for their crimes against God and humanity.  

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

my own life is a gift of god to be ended only by him.

It does not say this. It makes no mention of "gift of God". You are inserting your opinion into what it is saying.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

no one can deliver out of my hand

Deliver (senses 2, 7, 8 ):

• to give into another's possession or keeping; surrender: to deliver a prisoner to the police; to deliver a bond.
  
• to set free or liberate: The Israelites were delivered from bondage.
  
• to release or save: Deliver me from such tiresome people!

The powers and authorities of life and death are in God's possession. God is able to do them and is limited neither by death nor life.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

i put to death

So do we. This is not unique to God.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

this says God is the only one that should claim lives this goes for suicide to you cannot claim your own life.

Point me to where in the Bible it says that suicide is condemned.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Government is the only exeption they can kill criminals for their crimes against God and humanity.

Well done. You have just undone your own argument.

"God is the only one that should claim lives."
"Government ... can [in the sense of 'are permitted to'] kill criminals ..."

Try harder.  

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

I know there is a verse that says the government has the right to kill criminals and its not about if we kill its about if its right for us to kill and no i am not inserting my own opinion im inserting Martin Luthers opinion.and is says suicide is able to be condemed in the very fifth comandment it says humans are not to take the life of another human there you go suicide is killing yourself and assisted suicide is suicide to the person that wants it done to him and murder to the one assisting him. and on you catechism comment earlier you said it misses the point thats because it is covered in large context in Luthers Large Catechism. and with your dictionairy thing God did not use deliver like we do he used it to mean the delivering of ones soul to heaven or hell.  

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

I know there is a verse that says the government has the right to kill criminals and its not about if we kill its about if its right for us to kill

You had better get to finding it.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

no i am not inserting my own opinion im inserting Martin Luthers opinion.

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Martin Luther's opinion may still be incorrect, no matter how much of a devout Christian he was.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

and is says suicide is able to be condemed in the very fifth comandment it says humans are not to take the life of another human there you go suicide is killing yourself and assisted suicide is suicide to the person that wants it done to him and murder to the one assisting him.

It's the sixth commandment, actually, the first five being "God is the only God", "no idols", "no misusing God's name", "remember the Sabbath" and "honor father and mother". I digress.

Suicide is not murder. Incidentally, warfare is not murder either. This means that killing is not necessarily murder.

The technicalities are open to discussion.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

and on you catechism comment earlier you said it misses the point thats because it is covered in large context in Luthers Large Catechism.

You said that your catechism zooms over the subject of suicide. Now you're saying it contains a large amount of material on the subject. I suggest you quickly zoom to a quote in that material that mentions something about suicide.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

and with your dictionairy thing God did not use deliver like we do he used it to mean the delivering of ones soul to heaven or hell.

I dodge your strawman argument. I never used it in that sense. I pointed directly to the senses of deliver that related to something being in one's possession, such that I inferred that God must have life and death in His possession for it to be or not be "delivered from [His] hand".

Tell me: in what sense did God use the word 'deliver'?  

[piercing_golden_eyes]

Suicide and assisted suicide are both against the teachings of the Bible because although you are not killing anybody else, you are still ending a human life.

This same principle apples to abortion and even driving a friend to an abortion clinic. You are not personally killing the baby, but you are helping with it.

I hope this clears things up.  

[Priestley]

piercing_golden_eyes

Suicide and assisted suicide are both against the teachings of the Bible because although you are not killing anybody else, you are still ending a human life.

Which teachings?  

[Rsnbl Faith]

Suicide=Selfish, the bible does not preach selfishness, and i agree we are Gods, and what right do we have to take what is Gods, so what right do we have to take life, even our own?  

[Priestley]

Kain1334

Suicide=Selfish

What makes it selfish other than that the meaning of the word being literally "related to self, the act of killing"?

Incidentally, Jesus used people's selfishness as a reference from which people could understand his message: "Love your neighbour as you love yourself". For some people, even the task of loving oneself enough to want to continue living is difficult, seemingly impossible.  

[Rsnbl Faith]

what makes it selfish Priestley is the fact that during the act they think not of the possibility of someone around them being saddened by their death.(even though i know one of the thoughts that goes through their head is 'no one cares for me') that does not change the fact the act itself still hurts others, and it is up to us to show them that there are ppl that care, and that they have a use(which their other thought is usually 'i am useless' which is sometimes a cause of the first i mentioned)