Separation of Church and State

[Priestley]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Fushigi na Butterfly

The Establishment Clause is the separation of church and state.

My bad, lol. smile

But when did they decide that meant things like schools.
I mean the government has been around for 200+ years, only in the last 50 really have people made a whole deal out of this.

Well, it's simply that government-run schools operate as an extension of the government and staff working in such schools are educating on the government's behalf. One would be breaking the Establishment Clause if one were to practice freedom of religion while working in a governmental capacity.

Also, I quoted the Establishment Clause. stare  

[Romjacks]

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.  

[Edith Puthie]

Spike Zantren

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.

Teachers, even between classes, are not allowed to talk about their believes. They cannot start a conversation on thier beliefs, and cannot answer most questions about their beliefs. Basically, teachers are supposed to be seen as like... not religious AT all. xP  

[Priestley]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Spike Zantren

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.

Teachers, even between classes, are not allowed to talk about their believes. They cannot start a conversation on thier beliefs, and cannot answer most questions about their beliefs. Basically, teachers are supposed to be seen as like... not religious AT all. xP

They are still 'on the clock' (working) between classes and at breaks. The only times they are 'off the clock' (not working) are before school and after school. They can say and do what they like in their own time.  

[Edith Puthie]

Priestley

Paranormal Zombiiie

Spike Zantren

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.

Teachers, even between classes, are not allowed to talk about their believes. They cannot start a conversation on thier beliefs, and cannot answer most questions about their beliefs. Basically, teachers are supposed to be seen as like... not religious AT all. xP

They are still 'on the clock' (working) between classes and at breaks. The only times they are 'off the clock' (not working) are before school and after school.

Actually with the way things are now days, its more of they can't do it while on school property.

I had a few teachers who got talk to, because they joined in the student lead prayer around the flagpole, 30 mintues before school started.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

Paranormal Zombiiie

Spike Zantren

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.

Teachers, even between classes, are not allowed to talk about their believes. They cannot start a conversation on thier beliefs, and cannot answer most questions about their beliefs. Basically, teachers are supposed to be seen as like... not religious AT all. xP

They are still 'on the clock' (working) between classes and at breaks. The only times they are 'off the clock' (not working) are before school and after school. They can say and do what they like in their own time.

In the United States, this is not the case. Teachers are allowed to discuss their personal beliefs, even during class, so long as it is made clear they are personal beliefs.

School administration may instruct them not to, but the law allows it.  

[Aachren]

The divide between what is the State's business and the Church's is a controversy that has raged since the beginning.
I'm going to only go...oh, a couple of centuries back.
(I would mention Rome's emperors and their struggle with religion, but I lack the necessary details. My understanding is too general for my purposes.)

We could take the example of Henry VIII.
He wanted...well, many things, but he got in a fight with the Pope about the appointment of the Bishopric of Cantebury (the highest church office in England).
The Pope said, 'I'll excomunicate you if you don't listen to me!'
Dear old apoplectic (though to be fair, he wasn't the last two yet) Henry said, 'Well, I'll be the head of my own church!'
Yes, it was all very mature and took longer than all that, but there you have an example of the secular and the sacred interfering with each other.

On to a closer to home example, the Puritans!
Contrary to popular belief, these fine upstanding souls did not come to the wilderness for religious freedom.
They came for the sole purpose of establishing their own religion!
Massachusetts has provisions in its State Constitution for the public support of religion...after the signing of the Constitution.

Ack! I just realized the time here! I have to work tomorrow morning! I'll be back to post the rest later...  

[Edith Puthie]

zz1000zz

Priestley

Paranormal Zombiiie

Spike Zantren

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.

Teachers, even between classes, are not allowed to talk about their believes. They cannot start a conversation on thier beliefs, and cannot answer most questions about their beliefs. Basically, teachers are supposed to be seen as like... not religious AT all. xP

They are still 'on the clock' (working) between classes and at breaks. The only times they are 'off the clock' (not working) are before school and after school. They can say and do what they like in their own time.

In the United States, this is not the case. Teachers are allowed to discuss their personal beliefs, even during class, so long as it is made clear they are personal beliefs.

School administration may instruct them not to, but the law allows it.

It's a bit different with all the school I have gone to (like... 7 my whole life.) It might be an oregon law, but if teachers express personal beliefs, and a student doesn't like it, the teacher can get in trouble.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Might I suggest the book Religious Literacy? Very, very good book that deals with this topic in a very unbiased way. I think it would help you out alot. 3nodding  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

Priestley

Paranormal Zombiiie

Spike Zantren

It's not wrong for a teacher to express their opinion, as it's impossible to control all of the teacher's actions. Classes don't really start until the bell rings and the door's shut, so teachers should be able to talk freely inbetween classes. I don't know about the U.S., but that's the way it is in my school. confused

But yeah, Priestley's right. Teachers aren't allowed to discuss their own beliefs during classes when they're teaching, and they're not allowed to use the government funds given to the school to endorse any single religion.

Teachers, even between classes, are not allowed to talk about their believes. They cannot start a conversation on thier beliefs, and cannot answer most questions about their beliefs. Basically, teachers are supposed to be seen as like... not religious AT all. xP

They are still 'on the clock' (working) between classes and at breaks. The only times they are 'off the clock' (not working) are before school and after school. They can say and do what they like in their own time.

In the United States, this is not the case. Teachers are allowed to discuss their personal beliefs, even during class, so long as it is made clear they are personal beliefs.

School administration may instruct them not to, but the law allows it.

Ah, this is interesting. I remember when I worked as a barista for a coffee shop. The coffee shop's policy was that we weren't allowed to show the uniform in public unless we were actually working, due to anything that we would do while showing the uniform reflecting badly upon the coffee shop.  

[Edith Puthie]

Ahh, I finally grasp where the term Seperation of Church and State comes from...

Another form of it was said in Jeffersons Letter to a Church, "Wall of Separation."  

[Priestley]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Ahh, I finally grasp where the term Seperation of Church and State comes from...

Another form of it was said in Jeffersons Letter to a Church, "Wall of Separation."

So it was.

The letter was written after the amendment was ratified, though, so the term is merely a description of the idea.

It's actually all really interesting! I can't believe I'm getting excited by a bunch of laws. sweatdrop