I have a problem

[CuAnnan]

PrayThatThisEnds

Wow, god forbid i not know something

It's not that you not know something that's pissing me off. It's that as ignorant as you are you claim mastery.

PrayThatThisEnds

Thank you for letting me know the exception.

That is not the exception.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

CuAnnan

PrayThatThisEnds

Wow, god forbid i not know something

It's not that you not know something that's pissing me off. It's that as ignorant as you are you claim mastery.

PrayThatThisEnds

Thank you for letting me know the exception.

That is not the exception.

I never said i was a master and:

It is the exception as thats the only one I know of. You never listed others that do this so...  

[CuAnnan]

PrayThatThisEnds

I never said i was a master and:

Your behaviour on this guild forum has been reprehensible.
You have claimed, absolutely, several things where you are basing your claims upon personal experience.
You are not a master and, yet, you claim that your opinions are more valid than everyone else. I had assumed because of your attitudes that you must be a master. Only a master could claim with absolute authority that X is X.

PrayThatThisEnds

It is the exception as thats the only one I know of.

You know jack s**t.
You know nothing about the cultures that exist in other worlds. So big ******** deal. There is now an example of a lunar culture, there are others. You claim that magic is a solar thing but do not provide any sort of proof and when faced with a contraindication you claim that it is the only one because it is the only one you know of.
Shut the ******** up already.

PrayThatThisEnds

You never listed others that do this so...

So?
So I didn't list them, therefore they don't exist? I don't think so.
I think that the other cultures that are lunar oriented will continue to exist and have existed regardless of whether or not I list them.
Funny the way objective reality works.
You're the one claiming they're all solar.
Provide a ******** shred of proof.
Until then, you're a liar.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

CuAnnan

PrayThatThisEnds

I never said i was a master and:

Your behaviour on this guild forum has been reprehensible.
You have claimed, absolutely, several things where you are basing your claims upon personal experience.
You are not a master and, yet, you claim that your opinions are more valid than everyone else. I had assumed because of your attitudes that you must be a master. Only a master could claim with absolute authority that X is X.

PrayThatThisEnds

It is the exception as thats the only one I know of.

You know jack s**t.
You know nothing about the cultures that exist in other worlds. So big ******** deal. There is now an example of a lunar culture, there are others. You claim that magic is a solar thing but do not provide any sort of proof and when faced with a contraindication you claim that it is the only one because it is the only one you know of.
Shut the f**k up already.

PrayThatThisEnds

You never listed others that do this so...

So?
So I didn't list them, therefore they don't exist? I don't think so.
I think that the other cultures that are lunar oriented will continue to exist and have existed regardless of whether or not I list them.
Funny the way objective reality works.
You're the one claiming they're all solar.
Provide a ******** shred of proof.
Until then, you're a liar.

I'm a probationer of the G.'.D.'. . I don't follow Masters that claim to be the only true authority on anything. Maybe you should too. As for behavior... Get over it, this isn't the 1800s, and not the 1900s. We're dawning on a new Aeon.. I suggest you suit up for it.

Uhm... Whats the problem here about Lunar/Solar powers? Its clear most magickal paths are solar ebcause the sun rises and fades away - Most religions have a central god that dies and is reborn, a la the path of the Sun. The Moon regenerates and ebbs and flows eternally. Western culture is mostly based off of Egyptian viewpoints... with exceptions. What proof is there needed? Osiris, Mithras, Christ, covering Greece/the Balkans, Egypt, and the Middle East.

And i never said they were ALL solar, i was stating, up until you said otherwise, that to my KNOWLEDGE they were all solar.

God forbid i learn something, which seems to be somethign unforigvable here via the course of discussion.

I guess i'll be leaving the magicklly elite here, and i suggest others go elsewhere, lest they don't want to learn a thing.

Fr.L.e.L.  

[ShadowCatSoul]

Deoridhe

ShadowCatSoul

And as for tests, I don't know how to do tests to see what is what.

One way to test is to research different symbols which appeared in your dream, such as the moon, and find out what different cultural aspects constellate around them.

In my experience, however, there is a difference between dreams and visions. The former often contain religious and spiritual symbols, but are speaking to your psychological or self-development. The latter are calls to action or interaction. The dream sounds much more like commentary on things you were dealing with two years ago, and your relationships with our best friends, than anything necessarily deity-related.

I find your repeated mention of people telling you you "couldn't" worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods curious, though; not because that isn't likely the case, but because your inclusion of that seems to be carrying an unspoken demand that one back up your visions against those claims, so that you can go on to think and worship whom you chose without regard to research or effort.

This is disrespectful, both to those who did the work and have the background to worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods, and to the gods themselves, as you are essentially saying they aren't worth the effort to get to know them and their strictures, but instead they should dance attendance on you.

You might want to rethink your attitude.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You should really either shut your mouth or ask questions before making assumptions. Keeps you from looking a bit ridiculous.  

[Recursive Paradox]

PrayThatThisEnds

Uhm... Whats the problem here about Lunar/Solar powers? Its clear most magickal paths are solar ebcause the sun rises and fades away - Most religions have a central god that dies and is reborn, a la the path of the Sun. The Moon regenerates and ebbs and flows eternally. Western culture is mostly based off of Egyptian viewpoints... with exceptions. What proof is there needed? Osiris, Mithras, Christ, covering Greece/the Balkans, Egypt, and the Middle East.

What are you babbling about?

How can you make the completely unjustified claim that most magic paths are solar simply because of how the sun goes? Or a claim regarding religion that is not only entirely theistcentric but even ignores polytheistic systems?

Seriously, what the hell?

Are you just blind to the variations of paths? Like paths based on the interaction of elemental spirits, energy flow or symbols that have nothing to do with rebirth and death cycles?

Are you blind to the existence of atheistic religions and polytheistic religions?

It's like you believe that your own culture and the cultures you've personally experienced are the only ones that exist. How self absorbed can a person be? >.<  

[Recursive Paradox]

ShadowCatSoul

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You should really either shut your mouth or ask questions before making assumptions.

If you have no clue what she's talking about, then how can you claim she's making assumptions?

Quote:

Keeps you from looking a bit ridiculous.

Pot/Kettle/Blackness/Etc.  

[maenad nuri]

ShadowCatSoul

Deoridhe

ShadowCatSoul

And as for tests, I don't know how to do tests to see what is what.

One way to test is to research different symbols which appeared in your dream, such as the moon, and find out what different cultural aspects constellate around them.

In my experience, however, there is a difference between dreams and visions. The former often contain religious and spiritual symbols, but are speaking to your psychological or self-development. The latter are calls to action or interaction. The dream sounds much more like commentary on things you were dealing with two years ago, and your relationships with our best friends, than anything necessarily deity-related.

I find your repeated mention of people telling you you "couldn't" worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods curious, though; not because that isn't likely the case, but because your inclusion of that seems to be carrying an unspoken demand that one back up your visions against those claims, so that you can go on to think and worship whom you chose without regard to research or effort.

This is disrespectful, both to those who did the work and have the background to worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods, and to the gods themselves, as you are essentially saying they aren't worth the effort to get to know them and their strictures, but instead they should dance attendance on you.

You might want to rethink your attitude.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You should really either shut your mouth or ask questions before making assumptions. Keeps you from looking a bit ridiculous.

Actually, I thought Deo's response was really well put and straight forward. Mileage may vary, I suppose. Maybe a roadmap will be useful?

The first paragraph dealt with how to test your dream or vision. In this case the symbols and cultural constructs dealing with them.

The second was how to tell the difference between a dream and a vision. Deo suggested, based on information given, that your dream was in fact, a dream, and while possibly spiritual in nature -- not needfully deity related.

The third paragraph dealt with your mention that you were told that not being culturally Celtic, you could not worship Celtic gods, and the same with being Wiccan. In the paragraph she also mentioned that it seemed that you left it in so that we would have to say "yes, those are your gods" when you have no entitlement to them.

The fourth addressed that specific point, and how it awfully presumptuous and rude to do so, not just to the followers of that religion, but expecting the gods to drop their s**t to be with you.

The fifth was a call to action -- to look at that attitude and examine it.  

[error-dot-tar]

CuAnnan

The Gael placed no significance upon the sun. All of our festivals are lunar based. We planted seeds by the moon, we harvested by the moon, we hunted by the moon, we prayed by the moon. The moon is so sacred there is no word in our language for it.

That reminds me of a question that my mother had. She asked me to pass it on to you. Do Gael priests or priestesses (or what the term for it is, I honestly know nothing about it) use a crescent moon facing as such (straightened out, obviously) as a symbol?  

[error-dot-tar]

PrayThatThisEnds

It is the exception as thats the only one I know of. You never listed others that do this so...

Uh, no.

You know of others, you're just not paying attention to them.

One of them is Etherism, as has been pointed out to you time and time again. Another is Satanism (both LaVeyan and theistic forms from what I know). And hell, let's throw in Buddhism!  

[ShadowCatSoul]

maenad nuri

ShadowCatSoul

Deoridhe

ShadowCatSoul

And as for tests, I don't know how to do tests to see what is what.

One way to test is to research different symbols which appeared in your dream, such as the moon, and find out what different cultural aspects constellate around them.

In my experience, however, there is a difference between dreams and visions. The former often contain religious and spiritual symbols, but are speaking to your psychological or self-development. The latter are calls to action or interaction. The dream sounds much more like commentary on things you were dealing with two years ago, and your relationships with our best friends, than anything necessarily deity-related.

I find your repeated mention of people telling you you "couldn't" worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods curious, though; not because that isn't likely the case, but because your inclusion of that seems to be carrying an unspoken demand that one back up your visions against those claims, so that you can go on to think and worship whom you chose without regard to research or effort.

This is disrespectful, both to those who did the work and have the background to worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods, and to the gods themselves, as you are essentially saying they aren't worth the effort to get to know them and their strictures, but instead they should dance attendance on you.

You might want to rethink your attitude.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You should really either shut your mouth or ask questions before making assumptions. Keeps you from looking a bit ridiculous.

Actually, I thought Deo's response was really well put and straight forward. Mileage may vary, I suppose. Maybe a roadmap will be useful?

The first paragraph dealt with how to test your dream or vision. In this case the symbols and cultural constructs dealing with them.

The second was how to tell the difference between a dream and a vision. Deo suggested, based on information given, that your dream was in fact, a dream, and while possibly spiritual in nature -- not needfully deity related.

The third paragraph dealt with your mention that you were told that not being culturally Celtic, you could not worship Celtic gods, and the same with being Wiccan. In the paragraph she also mentioned that it seemed that you left it in so that we would have to say "yes, those are your gods" when you have no entitlement to them.

The fourth addressed that specific point, and how it awfully presumptuous and rude to do so, not just to the followers of that religion, but expecting the gods to drop their s**t to be with you.

The fifth was a call to action -- to look at that attitude and examine it.

First, she was assuming that I called them my gods, I did not. I merely said I prayed to them. Second she assumed that I have done no research on said gods. I've been doing research on various mythologies from Egyptian to Christian for the past 3 1/2 years. It's something I love to do. Dionysus and Bast are my favorites. I also have a fondness for Artemis and Cernunnos. I never claimed anything except for my dream vision, I merely asked questions.  

[maenad nuri]

ShadowCatSoul

First, she was assuming that I called them my gods, I did not. I merely said I prayed to them. Second she assumed that I have done no research on said gods. I've been doing research on various mythologies from Egyptian to Christian for the past 3 1/2 years. It's something I love to do. Dionysus and Bast are my favorites. I also have a fondness for Artemis and Cernunnos. I never claimed anything except for my dream vision, I merely asked questions.

With the information that you gave us, it was not an unreasonable assumption -- and based on the information you gave, she responded. Praying to a god is a fairly good indicator that you at least consider yourself entitled to pray to those gods.  

[Recursive Paradox]

How does one pray to gods that aren't theirs, exactly?  

[CuAnnan]

PrayThatThisEnds

I'm a probationer of the G.'.D.'.

Yes. You're a novice.
A beginner.
A foundling.

PrayThatThisEnds

I don't follow Masters that claim to be the only true authority on anything. Maybe you should too.

My Gods claim neither omnipotence nor authority over anything but their domains.
And you meant to have said "maybe you shouldn't either".

PrayThatThisEnds

Uhm... Whats the problem here about Lunar/Solar powers? Its clear most magickal paths are solar ebcause the sun rises and fades away

Most magical paths are not solar.

PrayThatThisEnds

Most religions have a central god that dies and is reborn

That sounds awfully like the Murray thesis that was proven to be fraudulent.

PrayThatThisEnds

The Moon regenerates and ebbs and flows eternally.

Yup. Definitely Murrayish.
The Moon doesn't confrorm to your archetype in Jewish magic, Gaelic magic, Gaulish magic, Chinese, Japanese, Persian, Britonic, Norse, Greek, Roman.... this list goes on.... would you like me to continue making you look uneducated or am I done exposing your ignorance for now?

PrayThatThisEnds

Western culture is mostly based off of Egyptian viewpoints

No. It isn't.

PrayThatThisEnds

to my KNOWLEDGE they were all solar.

No. You weren't.
You are a liar.  

[Maze]

Threads like this make me wish I actually liked popcorn.

Recursive Paradox

How does one pray to gods that aren't theirs, exactly?

The same way people whose gods they are pray to them? I mean, if you're going to be praying to gods that aren't yours, the least you can do is do some basic research to figure out how to talk to them..

Of course, doesn't mean the prayers will be listened to or cared for, I guess.

.. Hm. I guess if I were to do something like that, I'd start of paying tribute first. Just going in and asking for favours left and right is just going to get you shut out, I'm thinking..

How do you pay tribute to whatever gods you want to approach? Another point of research!

Oh, and it'd help if the gods you're trying to reach aren't, you know.. what's the word.. Like Tea's traditions. Closed to outsiders. Cause then you're likely just wasting your time.

.. Something like that, I guess?

Heck if I know.