But what if you can't believe?

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

For the record, there is no one place in the brain that deals with "the spiritual world." The theory is that the brain uses religion to organize complex bits of information that our world gives us, in order for us to stay sane (this is done mostly by the frontal lobe, but the whole brain works together). Having a more highly developed frontal lobe doesn't necessarily mean anything for religious belief (though it would be an interesting study .... -ponders-). There's another theory that says that the religions of the world have been created by human beings to fulfill certain needs that we have evolved as the human race has continued to adapt. Depending on the needs (spiritual, emotional, cognitive) that you have, you will be attracted to a certain religion that fulfills those needs. There are a few other theories out there, but they get increasingly complicated to explain, and also, I've forgotten the details of them. sweatdrop But yeah. Thought I'd clear that up. 3nodding  

[Priestley]

Ryan Russell

UGH!
No offense, but I have been very dissapointed with the Untarian Church in general lately.
I think you need to adress the real question: What is it that you REALLY have trouble believing?

If it is simply the existence of God, then here's Dr. Geisler's logical approach to god (I'll write it as well as I can remember it)

1. Everything that currently exists has a cause of existence(e.g. You're here because of your mother and father, the computer your using was assembled at a factory or by techies, etc, etc)

2. These causes have causes, and those causes have causes, etc(your parents' are here thanks to their parents, the factory that made your computer was created by construction workers, etc)

I follow so far.

Ryan Russell

3. There cannot be an infinite number of causes. There must be a first, uncaused cause.

Can't there? Must there? Why (not)?

Ryan Russell

4. This cause, which is the sole source of all that exists, must be eternal, all-knowing, and all-powerful.

Not necessarily. With regard to existence, there is the idea that the universe could have existed before the Big Bang if you take into account the idea that there could have been a previous Big Crunch into the singularity from which the universe expanded. This cycle of expansion and contraction might have been going on for eternity. With regard to knowledge, physical events have no knowledge of themselves nor require it in order to happen. With regard to power, the singularity at the Big Bang required only the necessary amount of energy (power) for the physical event to happen and, insodoing, release that energy into the system (the immediate vicinity, the earliest stages of the universe) upon expansion. It no longer holds that power.

Ryan Russell

5. This entity is appropriately called "God.".

Call it what you like, it doesn't change what it is.

Ryan Russell

-This is where the argument gets controversial-

6. This "God" meets the description of the living, personal deity described in the Bible.

This is the application of God's Biblically described characteristics to the assumed characteristics of the cause of the universe. It is not a true step in the process but rather the amendment of an already unnecessary step (step 4).

Ryan Russell

7. Thus, the God of the Bible exists.

The Bible still may not contain the most correct/accurate and fullest description of God. It may have got it completely wrong. However, this also rests on the assumptions made in step 4.

Ryan Russell

-However, I would like you to note that, while you call yourself a Unitarian Christian, I would suggest you reconsider your definition of both. My experience with unitarians is that even the church leaders are simply religous. Being a Christian is more than just being religous. It requires that you have accepted that God is master, that He sent His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the redemtion of man, and that you are imperfect and in need of this free gift of salvation.

THAT is what it means to be a Christian.
(note: I'm not bashing you. I'm just being straightforward because most people won't and i won't risk you not understanding this message, since your eternal destination rests solely on this concept)

Actually, his eternal destination rests solely on the Judgment of God, who is just.  

[SavageDamsal]

Fushigi na Butterfly

For the record, there is no one place in the brain that deals with "the spiritual world." The theory is that the brain uses religion to organize complex bits of information that our world gives us, in order for us to stay sane (this is done mostly by the frontal lobe, but the whole brain works together). Having a more highly developed frontal lobe doesn't necessarily mean anything for religious belief (though it would be an interesting study .... -ponders-). There's another theory that says that the religions of the world have been created by human beings to fulfill certain needs that we have evolved as the human race has continued to adapt. Depending on the needs (spiritual, emotional, cognitive) that you have, you will be attracted to a certain religion that fulfills those needs. There are a few other theories out there, but they get increasingly complicated to explain, and also, I've forgotten the details of them. sweatdrop But yeah. Thought I'd clear that up. 3nodding

Sorry, I might have been unclear it what I was saying. I'm not a neural expert and I don't pretend to be. I was just offering up some information I'd heard. Here's, probably, a clearer representation of what I was talking about. http://www.horizonresearch.org/are-religious-experiences-real.html  

[Ryan Russell]

Quote:

Quote:

Ryan Russell Wrote:
-However, I would like you to note that, while you call yourself a Unitarian Christian, I would suggest you reconsider your definition of both. My experience with unitarians is that even the church leaders are simply religous. Being a Christian is more than just being religous. It requires that you have accepted that God is master, that He sent His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the redemtion of man, and that you are imperfect and in need of this free gift of salvation.

THAT is what it means to be a Christian.
(note: I'm not bashing you. I'm just being straightforward because most people won't and i won't risk you not understanding this message, since your eternal destination rests solely on this concept)

Actually, his eternal destination rests solely on the Judgment of God, who is just.

Are you, Priestly, saying that his eternal destination does NOT depend on his belief in God and trust in salvation through Christ? If that is your perspective, then your view on life is not Christian at all. (But I'm hoping that response was simply a misunderstanding)  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

SavageDamsal

Fushigi na Butterfly

For the record, there is no one place in the brain that deals with "the spiritual world." The theory is that the brain uses religion to organize complex bits of information that our world gives us, in order for us to stay sane (this is done mostly by the frontal lobe, but the whole brain works together). Having a more highly developed frontal lobe doesn't necessarily mean anything for religious belief (though it would be an interesting study .... -ponders-). There's another theory that says that the religions of the world have been created by human beings to fulfill certain needs that we have evolved as the human race has continued to adapt. Depending on the needs (spiritual, emotional, cognitive) that you have, you will be attracted to a certain religion that fulfills those needs. There are a few other theories out there, but they get increasingly complicated to explain, and also, I've forgotten the details of them. sweatdrop But yeah. Thought I'd clear that up. 3nodding

Sorry, I might have been unclear it what I was saying. I'm not a neural expert and I don't pretend to be. I was just offering up some information I'd heard. Here's, probably, a clearer representation of what I was talking about. http://www.horizonresearch.org/are-religious-experiences-real.html

The article you gave talks more about religious experiences in general (near death experiences, feeling the presence of God, etc.) rather than religion. But yeah, scientists like to pass off religious experiences as nothing but another chemical reaction in the brain. While I tend to agree with this view, I see it as more evidence for God, than anything else. smile  

[The Amazing Jabels]

Ryan Russell

Quote:

Quote:

Ryan Russell Wrote:
-However, I would like you to note that, while you call yourself a Unitarian Christian, I would suggest you reconsider your definition of both. My experience with unitarians is that even the church leaders are simply religous. Being a Christian is more than just being religous. It requires that you have accepted that God is master, that He sent His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the redemtion of man, and that you are imperfect and in need of this free gift of salvation.

THAT is what it means to be a Christian.
(note: I'm not bashing you. I'm just being straightforward because most people won't and i won't risk you not understanding this message, since your eternal destination rests solely on this concept)

Actually, his eternal destination rests solely on the Judgment of God, who is just.

Are you, Priestly, saying that his eternal destination does NOT depend on his belief in God and trust in salvation through Christ? If that is your perspective, then your view on life is not Christian at all. (But I'm hoping that response was simply a misunderstanding)

Whether or not non believers are damned to Hell is a point of debate. I can be well argued by both sides.  

[The Amazing Jabels]

Ryan Russell

-However, I would like you to note that, while you call yourself a Unitarian Christian, I would suggest you reconsider your definition of both. My experience with unitarians is that even the church leaders are simply religous. Being a Christian is more than just being religous. It requires that you have accepted that God is master, that He sent His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the redemtion of man, and that you are imperfect and in need of this free gift of salvation.

A key belief of the Unitarian church is that the Bible was inspired by God and written by man, and men are imperfect. Therefore, although the Bible contains much wisdom and truth, it is not infalliable. Therefore common sense trumps the Bible every time. Perhaps that is why we seem merely spiritual.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

But common sense is so subjective. confused How can anyone decide who is right?  

[The Amazing Jabels]

Fushigi na Butterfly

But common sense is so subjective. confused How can anyone decide who is right?

You can't. You decide who you THINK is right, and go from there.

On a lighter note,
 

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

So if you're just going by who you think is right, how can you be sure you're doing anything by God's standards? That is the goal of a Christian life: to be like Christ, and do things by His standards. If people are picking and choosing which parts of Jesus' teachings are fallible and which aren't, then no one can ever know if they're actually doing what God expects. confused  

[Priestley]

Ryan Russell

Quote:

Quote:

Ryan Russell Wrote:
-However, I would like you to note that, while you call yourself a Unitarian Christian, I would suggest you reconsider your definition of both. My experience with unitarians is that even the church leaders are simply religous. Being a Christian is more than just being religous. It requires that you have accepted that God is master, that He sent His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the redemtion of man, and that you are imperfect and in need of this free gift of salvation.

THAT is what it means to be a Christian.
(note: I'm not bashing you. I'm just being straightforward because most people won't and i won't risk you not understanding this message, since your eternal destination rests solely on this concept)

Actually, his eternal destination rests solely on the Judgment of God, who is just.

Are you, Priestly, saying that his eternal destination does NOT depend on his belief in God and trust in salvation through Christ? If that is your perspective, then your view on life is not Christian at all. (But I'm hoping that response was simply a misunderstanding)

No, I didn't say that. What I said was that it is ultimately God who decides who gets into heaven and who doesn't, not our own belief that we will. You can believe you're going to heaven all you like but we don't decide for ourselves where we go.  

[The Amazing Jabels]

Fushigi na Butterfly

So if you're just going by who you think is right, how can you be sure you're doing anything by God's standards? That is the goal of a Christian life: to be like Christ, and do things by His standards. If people are picking and choosing which parts of Jesus' teachings are fallible and which aren't, then no one can ever know if they're actually doing what God expects. confused

This is true. I simply do what I believe Jesus would want, and hope I'm right.  

[The Ultimate Soul Reaper]

The Amazing Jabels

I tried reading the Bible, but it makes me LESS sure of Christianity. I mean, have you actually read that thing? It makes no sense, and seems to make God sound like a rather violent person.

I have read the whole thing many times, I cant stop reading it, the old and the new. I love them both, many laws are stated in the old, the new revises some laws but not all of them, its important to read the old if you can just to see, many people just follow the new testament. you need to follow the whole Bible. laws not restated in the new testament still stand in the old testament.  

[RekaG]

Maybe it all that homework you have been doing, Knowledge of and about is way different than belief and having faith in him.
God loves you a lot.  

[DustNymph]

So, you're having trouble believing in Christianity. Why not try something else?

Have you ever considered a form of polytheism? Whether hard polytheist or soft polytheist, 10 out of 10 Hellenic(Greek) Recons agree it's a great way to go! Or perhaps you like your gods a little less tangible and imminent. There's always various forms of deism! Now, personally, I prefer some nice, nature-based transcendentalism, but that's just me.

What my advice boils down to is this: poke around a little, do some research, and find out what clicks with you. Maybe after trying out a few other things, it'll hit you that Christianity was where you wanted to be all along. Or maybe not. Maybe you'll never be one-hundred-percent sure what you believe, but at least you'll be more knowledgeable, right?