Wicca

[TeaDidikai]

The Burning Times are usually mocked because the individuals citing them have little to no understanding of the historical concepts behind the pop-pagan persecution mythos.

The Burning Times has become synonymous with the "Witch Hunts" of Europe and America.

The usual claims involve an ancestor of the individual being burned for witchcraft.

Some of the things we need to note in reference to this phenomenon is that:

1) The numbers reported by Fluffies are highly exaggerated- often times upwards of Nine Million- often limiting it to women.

2) Witchcraft charges were few and far between. More Muslims, Practicing Jewish Craftsmen and Christians were killed than any people we would consider pagan.

3) This is typically used as a condemnation of Christendom and a banner of oppression- the problem is that most of the executions were carried out by secular authorities.  

[Taliah]

I think I see now.

Since many of the people prosecuted were often considered of the religion that was condemning them, then saying it was -only- the pagans who were burned is more or less wrong. Not only that, but their numbers don't usually add up, or range too far apart to really have much merit.

Sound about right?  

[TeaDidikai]

Taliah

Since many of the people prosecuted were often considered of the religion that was condemning them,

Not quite. Some were Christian. Others were Jewish and Muslim.

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then saying it was -only- the pagans who were burned is more or less wrong

No more or less about it. Is wrong. Stating in absolutes can be a pain.

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Not only that, but their numbers don't usually add up, or range too far apart to really have much merit.

This is very true- and the larger exaggerations "Nine Million Women were burned!" is out and out unreasonable- as this would have executed between a quarter and half of the population of Europe, after the Black Death had already crippled the population a century earlier.

Here ya go. More information is always nice.  

[Taliah]

Thank you very much. ^^ This was most helpful and I have a new website to boot. =D  

[TeaDidikai]

Taliah

Thank you very much. ^^ This was most helpful and I have a new website to boot. =D

Happy to have been of aid.  

[Ashley the Bee]

Okay, I have what is probably a very silly question.

What is an "athame"?

I know it is a knife, and there are websites that explain that it is used in ceremonial magic -- perhaps -- but what I really wonder is, where did this word come from? Is it just a knife? Was it a new word created to describe something within Wicca?

Thank you!  

[Nomad of Nowhere]

There is some debate on that; some feel that the Athame is derived from the Malay knife known as the "Kris" which is regarded as having magical powers. The name seems to be a reference to Latin "Artavus", a knife used by scribes to sharpen their quills, or Arabic "Al-Dhamme" or "blood-letter", used for offerings. It is possible that he took it from a French Key of Solomon, which mistook the Artavo as the main ceremonial knife. I read about another proposed origin of the word, but I don't remember what it was, which means I may have dismissed it immediately upon reading it.  

[Morgandria]

Ashley the Bee

Okay, I have what is probably a very silly question.

What is an "athame"?

I know it is a knife, and there are websites that explain that it is used in ceremonial magic -- perhaps -- but what I really wonder is, where did this word come from? Is it just a knife? Was it a new word created to describe something within Wicca?

Thank you!

Athame may be a corrupted version of the Latin 'artavus', or 'quill knife'.
As for how the word migrated between the original and the possible corrupted variants, I have no idea.

An athame is a ritual tool. It's usually a double-edged blade, with a black hilt. There's lots of room for variation there. It is used to direct energy during ritual, and to represent the male in the symbolic Great Rite.

It's not used to actually cut anything. A boline, or white-handled knife (ours is shaped like a sickle), does this instead.

Anyone can have a ritual knife. Lots of different paths use them. Just because it's a knife, and in ritual, doesn't make it an athame. An athame is consecrated by a specific ritual. Before that, it is just a knife.

Gardner very much liked the 'kris' blades of Indonesia, that are also considered to have their own magic. It's likely the inclusion of a magical blade in Wicca drew inspiration from several sources.  

[Ashley the Bee]

Thanks guys ^_^ Makes sense now!  

[imadelilith]

Wolves92

Deoridhe

First of all, you need to find a coven, which tends to be a challenge since they don't advertise. Then you need to verify their lineage through various ways and see if you can attach yourself to a reputable coven. If they find you acceptable, and you find them acceptable, and you're over 18, you can start moving toward being initiated.

thank you but what if your under 18?

if you're under 18 it's not too terribly likely an actually working coven with real lineage *will* work with you. It's not completely unheard of, though. When I was living in California I was studying with a coven and I think I and another girl were both... well, I was 18, and she was 19. I think the sticky legal situation that a coven and it's *heads (whatever the coven's path calls them, queen, high priestess, magus, high priest, lord and lady, whatev.)* need to consider is that the wiccan faith is traditionally set to the tune of fertility, and practitioners of trad place emphasis on ritual involving this, it wouldn't really do *us* any good to have a story in the media about child molesting witches or soemthing when all that was actually going on was nudity under robes and a pointy in a cup... another thing I have personally noticed about older witches that have the experience and knowledge to pass on prefer to work with older and more mature people. Some can be downright elitist, and rude. My previous teacher said that since their covens worked sky clad also that the men leading the covens were often accused by other people in their and any other trad of being basically pervs trying to see young barely legal *again, all 18 or older* women naked. although that i don't think would always be the case, especially if he did have the actual free spirit that he claims, it's something avoided simply because of just that stigma. sometimes i think i the case of younger *witches* and prospective wicca, it is good simply to hover about the people who you know have the knowledge, make friends in the path, and enjoy working with groups preinitiate. although you might be eager to jump into a coven and summon whatever you think you are going to, being a witch is about so much more than a secret circle that once you find your niche and comfort zone, the goddess/god. whoever you think will plop the best path for you, or group even, right into your lap. i'm sorry that i'm the rambling type.

anywho, uh, bottom line if all that is too much is that it is against the rules for trad to initiate under 18 simply due to context and potential legal issues. but some advice is that when you slow down and focus more basically on yourself and what you need to grow and thrive in a magickal context, when you are ready opportunity will present itself...  

[imadelilith]

Morgandria

It's not used to actually cut anything. A boline, or white-handled knife (ours is shaped like a sickle), does this instead.

Quote:

yeah, some people recommend destroying an athame if it cuts, although i've heard burying it for awhile generally grounds out the energies and makes it still useable. i can't imagine most people spending mundane time trying to destroy a knife like it was some kind of hazard! kind of impractical, and this is a more modern and practical age.

 

[Your_Gaurdian_Angel92]

imadelilith

Wolves92

Deoridhe

First of all, you need to find a coven, which tends to be a challenge since they don't advertise. Then you need to verify their lineage through various ways and see if you can attach yourself to a reputable coven. If they find you acceptable, and you find them acceptable, and you're over 18, you can start moving toward being initiated.

thank you but what if your under 18?

if you're under 18 it's not too terribly likely an actually working coven with real lineage *will* work with you. It's not completely unheard of, though. When I was living in California I was studying with a coven and I think I and another girl were both... well, I was 18, and she was 19. I think the sticky legal situation that a coven and it's *heads (whatever the coven's path calls them, queen, high priestess, magus, high priest, lord and lady, whatev.)* need to consider is that the wiccan faith is traditionally set to the tune of fertility, and practitioners of trad place emphasis on ritual involving this, it wouldn't really do *us* any good to have a story in the media about child molesting witches or soemthing when all that was actually going on was nudity under robes and a pointy in a cup... another thing I have personally noticed about older witches that have the experience and knowledge to pass on prefer to work with older and more mature people. Some can be downright elitist, and rude. My previous teacher said that since their covens worked sky clad also that the men leading the covens were often accused by other people in their and any other trad of being basically pervs trying to see young barely legal *again, all 18 or older* women naked. although that i don't think would always be the case, especially if he did have the actual free spirit that he claims, it's something avoided simply because of just that stigma. sometimes i think i the case of younger *witches* and prospective wicca, it is good simply to hover about the people who you know have the knowledge, make friends in the path, and enjoy working with groups preinitiate. although you might be eager to jump into a coven and summon whatever you think you are going to, being a witch is about so much more than a secret circle that once you find your niche and comfort zone, the goddess/god. whoever you think will plop the best path for you, or group even, right into your lap. i'm sorry that i'm the rambling type.

anywho, uh, bottom line if all that is too much is that it is against the rules for trad to initiate under 18 simply due to context and potential legal issues. but some advice is that when you slow down and focus more basically on yourself and what you need to grow and thrive in a magickal context, when you are ready opportunity will present itself...

I was curious nothing more, Its good to know though so if i decide to persue Wicca i have an idea as to what can happen if i find a coven when i am just barely past 18 but right now i'm happy being pagan.