Why the War is Sexist

[hilizzy265]

I just went through and read the Daily Mail's headline articles.
Yea, I'm not a fan of trash mags :/
Especially ones that would put Paris Hilton goes from chav to prom queen- in one day! near an article about whether Brittania should stay on the 50p coin  

[Prince Starchild]

hilizzy265

princess lolifoxxx

I don't beleive most of the things discussed here are 'radical' in any light. They're merely the real results of nearly a century's worth of campaigns and liberation for women, results that haven't happened.

I don't think these things are radical, but some rights issues are radical to most people. That's why I think people need to learn that radical isn't always bad.

princess lolifoxxx

For when women are slightly unwilling, the idea of men getting in 'some trouble' might be all well and good, but I think it's too hard to police, and could be used by some people as a threat, and how do you police people using something like that to make another's life a misery? Only in repeated or remarkable cases sould somethin like that be policed, which is sad. Perhaps a more thorough understanding on men's part through more education on the matter might make the problem shrink a bit.

Perhaps people should be encouraged to report it, and if a few people report it against the same person soomething should be done. If those people were lying, it would come out in court.

princess lolifoxxx

As for the free press thing, I know that it'll never get through, it just makes me sick to see the Daily Mail and these kind of papers perpetuating sick, backward views, and kids thinking it's ok because their parents read it.

I've never read the Daily Mail, maybe one or two articles, but not the whole thing. I'll go online later and look at it. I also don't know British law well enough to know the terms of free speech and anti-hate laws, so I can't comment on how you guys can do things so much. I think one thing that needs to be fixed (at least over here), there is no rules against defaming(spll?) a group. So You can't say 'Mary Smith is a lying cheatin whore', but you CAn say 'all women are lying cheating whore. Kinda messed up.

I doubt that every case would come out in court, and the past few years and the later decades of alst century proved just how far some people might go for attention, money or just plain old revenge. I couldn't support a system that meant a people could potentially ruin each other, if only socially, by having them outed as a rapist when a quiet break-up or just talking to each other and understanding what is good and bad is better.

Educating people on what is and isn't rape in school might be a better idea. Also, this reminds me of something spouted by some Mail journalist that really got on my tits. Sex education has 'increased STDs and teen pregnancy' according to their 'research'. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but is it not faulty reasoning that just because sex ed. exists, and those things are on the increase, does not mean there is a direct correlation. Let's look at drinking and drug taking amongst the youth, and maybe take other factors into consideration. Or maybe we should stop educating people about sex and just let them figure out for themselve in this new and developing society what is and isn't bad. Seriously, turn out a generation of kids with no education and I'll bet you my right leg that they're more prone to peer pressure and curiousity, without having been informed about the correct precautions.
O, the Mail is my enemy. I will bring it down.  

[Foetus In Fetu]

hilizzy265

and the sad thing is, there are a lot of people who aren’t anti-rape. Go on any comments section of an article where someone is claiming rape.

I know, right? One article on the arrest of a man who was soliciting for sex (read: sexually harrassing women) on the University of Washington campus got a lot of comments about how he was "just expressing himself" and how "a lot of us wish we had the confidence to tell women how we feel".

Um, because making inappropriate remarks to a stranger is exactly the same as having difficult expressing emotions.

You know, when I was in France I was followed back to my hotel by a man who kept asking me for sex and when I responded with a flat-out "no" kept asking "why?", "why?" and pretended he didn't understand my French when I told him he didn't have a right to know. That was a frightening experience.

Men need to stop holding women to this double-standard of, well if you don't "protect" yourself by running away or fighting back (or not accepting drinks from men you don't know that well) it's not rape -- and yet if I'm the guy [insert creepy behaviour]-ing, you should know that I'm not a rapist and consider my feelings before you get all jumpy. Uh huh.

hilizzy265

That’s true as well. But thing of any gay guy, especially in grey rape. He would know he’d never have a chance in court. However, I’m going to revise my statement to “ considering how many people won’t/can’t admit/legally charge(someone with) rape, it’s impossible to say an accurate percentage, just that it happens to many people.

Agreed.

hilizzy265

I just meant that a lot of smaller men and women get messed with, and I think that comes out of the ‘rush’ of domination, and it’s easier to achieve with someone smaller. And to twisted people, rape might seem fine if they feel ‘good’. Not so much women but small/weak things in general.

That's true -- but it does tie into the way being feminine or being a woman is conflated with being weak.

hilizzy265

I meant the thing I said about the women getting slaves freed then being put on the sidelines. I had just read someone talking about how we all should feel bad for black men, how much worse they’ve had it than everyone else. That always annoys me.

Oh, right. Yeah, it grates on me when people regard, say, black women as just black or just women -- when the fact is, they suffer discrimination on more than one front and in ways that are unique to them (such as being invisible in the example you gave). The same goes for anybody who belongs to more than one minority group.

hilizzy265

All people need to learn the REAL meaning of rape. If they’re only taught the behind-the-bush scenario, they will wonder what’s wrong with them when they feel upset after a boyfriend took advantage of them. After all, only strangers rape, right?
There is a lot more to be taught, and parents shouldn’tbe allowed to take their kids out of the class.

Definitely. Although, I think a lot of young girls are taught about rape in that sense -- but the word "rape" is never used. It's always couched in terms such as "taking advantage".

But just educating the [perceived] victims of this behaviour is not enough -- that's putting the onus on the victims to prevent it. Adolescent boys and men need to be taught that is behaviour is wrong and what it really means to the victim, and, most importantly, that women are people and not objects put there for their sexual gratification.

hilizzy265

Foetus In Fetu

Now let's try having this discussion in ED. wink

Put it in the chatterbox.

Or the comments section on YouTube...

princess lolifoxxx

For when women are slightly unwilling, the idea of men getting in 'some trouble' might be all well and good, but I think it's too hard to police, and could be used by some people as a threat, and how do you police people using something like that to make another's life a misery? Only in repeated or remarkable cases sould somethin like that be policed, which is sad. Perhaps a more thorough understanding on men's part through more education on the matter might make the problem shrink a bit.

False claims for rape on principle shouldn't be any more of a problem than false claims for any other crime.

And considering the number of lawyers and judges who are middle-class white men, I think any woman falsely accusing a man of rape is more likely to have it thrown out of court than people seem to think (for several reasons: because her probably male prosecution lawyer is likely to be biased against her, because the probably male judge will probably be more sympathetic to the probably male defense lawyer and the male defendant, because so much is made about false claims for rape -- moreso than for any other crime -- and because our society's inherent sexism probably biases the jury against her).

In fact, all of the above are reasons why rape cases very rarely even make it to court: because you have to fight patriarchy and this disgusting "false claims" myth every step of the way. That's why rape survivors don't think it's worth it.

This is not a system that women are in a position to take advantage of.

hilizzy265

I've never read the Daily Mail,

Oh, it's classy.

princess lolifoxxx

Sex education has 'increased STDs and teen pregnancy' according to their 'research'.

Most research says the opposite.  

[hilizzy265]

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

and the sad thing is, there are a lot of people who aren’t anti-rape. Go on any comments section of an article where someone is claiming rape.

I know, right? One article on the arrest of a man who was soliciting for sex (read: sexually harrassing women) on the University of Washington campus got a lot of comments about how he was "just expressing himself" and how "a lot of us wish we had the confidence to tell women how we feel".

Um, because making inappropriate remarks to a stranger is exactly the same as having difficult expressing emotions.

I know! And on rape things when there are posters that just say she’s making it up for no reason. When in doubt, blame the victim isn’t a valid philosophy. And I always want to reply to those kind of guys "We're glad you don't"

Foetus In Fetu

You know, when I was in France I was followed back to my hotel by a man who kept asking me for sex and when I responded with a flat-out "no" kept asking "why?", "why?" and pretended he didn't understand my French when I told him he didn't have a right to know. That was a frightening experience.

Wow. Once I was out driving at 2 am (I like midnight drives) and some old guy in a sports car was in the other lane and went in mine and followed me around for 25 minutes. On one lane road backcountry. I can’t *prove* he was following me, but he was. And some people would thing I was over-reacting. It’s stupid

Foetus In Fetu

Men need to stop holding women to this double-standard of, well if you don't "protect" yourself by running away or fighting back (or not accepting drinks from men you don't know that well) it's not rape -- and yet if I'm the guy [insert creepy behaviour]-ing, you should know that I'm not a rapist and consider my feelings before you get all jumpy. Uh huh.

I know! It’s crazy. And those people don’t bother to think about how the two overlap, because they don’t want to deal with it.

Some men are considerate, but it’s always the men who don’t need to be. Once my mom was getting on an elevator in her office and some black guy was in it (it was like 7 pm). She said “whoa you startled me!” because she jumped a little (wasn’t expecting anyone. And he said “ Oh! I’m sorry! I’ll take the stairs.” And it made her feel really bad. It’s always the nice ones who you can tell won’t do anything that take anti-rape/crime/whatever to heart. That example didn’t fit this perfectly, but w/e.

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

I just meant that a lot of smaller men and women get messed with, and I think that comes out of the ‘rush’ of domination, and it’s easier to achieve with someone smaller. And to twisted people, rape might seem fine if they feel ‘good’. Not so much women but small/weak things in general.

That's true -- but it does tie into the way being feminine or being a woman is conflated with being weak.

Fair enough. The big sportsman is best mentality need to be calmed, then men might stop trying to prove their manhood so much (that could even help with things like speeders and junk!)

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

I meant the thing I said about the women getting slaves freed then being put on the sidelines. I had just read someone talking about how we all should feel bad for black men, how much worse they’ve had it than everyone else. That always annoys me.

Oh, right. Yeah, it grates on me when people regard, say, black women as just black or just women -- when the fact is, they suffer discrimination on more than one front and in ways that are unique to them (such as being invisible in the example you gave). The same goes for anybody who belongs to more than one minority group.

well I meant women in general, but multi-minorities do face a lot of discrimination. That one article I showed you earlier was about some black lesbian women. I personally thing LGBT people face more discrimination that any ethnic minority.

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

All people need to learn the REAL meaning of rape. If they’re only taught the behind-the-bush scenario, they will wonder what’s wrong with them when they feel upset after a boyfriend took advantage of them. After all, only strangers rape, right?
There is a lot more to be taught, and parents shouldn’t be allowed to take their kids out of the class.

Definitely. Although, I think a lot of young girls are taught about rape in that sense -- but the word "rape" is never used. It's always couched in terms such as "taking advantage".

They are taught that. They need to learn it’s rape though. If someone ‘takes advantage’ of you, that like someone using you to get a promotion over you. It sucks, but it’s tough luck- deal with it. Rape is quite different, and they need to quite mellowing it out.

Foetus In Fetu

But just educating the [perceived] victims of this behaviour is not enough -- that's putting the onus on the victims to prevent it. Adolescent boys and men need to be taught that is behaviour is wrong and what it really means to the victim, and, most importantly, that women are people and not objects put there for their sexual gratification.

Definitely. They need to learn that miniskirts don’t guarantee sex. Especially in hot places. It gets to almost 100 Fahrenheit here in the summer, but a lot of guys will still equate short dresses and skirts with sex. It’s stupid. And even if a girl is dressed like a prostitute, you can’t decide she must want to sleep with everyone.

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

Foetus In Fetu

Now let's try having this discussion in ED. wink

Put it in the chatterbox.

Or the comments section on YouTube...

There you go! On one of those wanna be rappers’ videos?

Foetus In Fetu

princess lolifoxxx

For when women are slightly unwilling, the idea of men getting in 'some trouble' might be all well and good, but I think it's too hard to police, and could be used by some people as a threat, and how do you police people using something like that to make another's life a misery? Only in repeated or remarkable cases should something like that be policed, which is sad. Perhaps a more thorough understanding on men's part through more education on the matter might make the problem shrink a bit.

False claims for rape on principle shouldn't be any more of a problem than false claims for any other crime.
And considering the number of lawyers and judges who are middle-class white men, I think any woman falsely accusing a man of rape is more likely to have it thrown out of court than people seem to think (for several reasons: because her probably male prosecution lawyer is likely to be biased against her, because the probably male judge will probably be more sympathetic to the probably male defense lawyer and the male defendant, because so much is made about false claims for rape -- moreso than for any other crime -- and because our society's inherent sexism probably biases the jury against her).
In fact, all of the above are reasons why rape cases very rarely even make it to court: because you have to fight patriarchy and this disgusting "false claims" myth every step of the way. That's why rape survivors don't think it's worth it.
This is not a system that women are in a position to take advantage of.

Yea, if it’s fake (or grey), it’ll get thrown out. Some people would lie, but the number would be small. If you claim that, they do tests around your v****a- seeing who you had sex with, how hard it was, things like that. Of course, if it’s not messed up because you went limp, they say it’s obviously willing. If it shows hard sex, the defense lawyer will make the claim that you just like rough sex. And of course, if you wanted to try it, then didn’t like it, you’d claim rape. It’s hard to win. Especially if you’ve had sex with multiple people. People need to claim it when it’s real, just to help people understand. Then again, if I were one of them, I’d think twice about prosecuting. But if enough people claim it, the cities will actually do something- nothing like crime on their neighborhood going up to spring politicians into action.

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

I've never read the Daily Mail,

Oh, it's classy.

Is that the link you meant to send me? It was just some guy talking about immigration and putting down the government- it didn’t look like the Daily Mail got that deep.

princess lolifoxxx

I doubt that every case would come out in court, and the past few years and the later decades of alst century proved just how far some people might go for attention, money or just plain old revenge. I couldn't support a system that meant a people could potentially ruin each other, if only socially, by having them outed as a rapist when a quiet break-up or just talking to each other and understanding what is good and bad is better.

But a lot of people wouldn’t think of them as a rapist, no matter how obvious the evidence was. And a lot of people are destroyed mentally because they know what happened was wrong but there was nothing they could do.

princess lolifoxxx

Educating people on what is and isn't rape in school might be a better idea. Also, this reminds me of something spouted by some Mail journalist that really got on my tits. Sex education has 'increased STDs and teen pregnancy' according to their 'research'. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but is it not faulty reasoning that just because sex ed. exists, and those things are on the increase, does not mean there is a direct correlation.

That’s stupid. There’s been sex ed since most people knew what STD’s were. And pregnancy? People didn’t have premarital sex in the 1950’s, that true, they just all the sudden decided to get married and had a perfectly healthy baby 7 months later! I don’t believe it’s increased teen pregnancies. People used to get married when they were 17-20 and just start popping them out, so it has to be at least the same, no way it’s gone up.

princess lolifoxxx

O, the Mail is my enemy. I will bring it down.

It sounds like if you made a plan of action, you’d get a lot of followers.  

[Foetus In Fetu]

hilizzy265

I always want to reply to those kind of guys "We're glad you don't"

Snap!

hilizzy265

And some people would thing I was over-reacting.

Right, it's "over-reacting" and yet this is the reaction we're taught to have: you fear strange men, or else you get raped -- unless I'm the strange man, in which case you're a cold-hearted over-reacting b***h who doesn't recognise that I'm just a shy woobie looking for love.

hilizzy265

well I meant women in general, but multi-minorities do face a lot of discrimination. That one article I showed you earlier was about some black lesbian women. I personally thing LGBT people face more discrimination that any ethnic minority.

It's a different kind of discrimination, and I'm not really in the business of ranking them. You can be in the closet as a gay person, but you can't be in the closet as black, or asian -- unless you're passing. And the whole dynamic of "in" vs "out" and "passing" vs "not passing"... it's complicated, and I'm not gonna pretend I understand it.

Each status comes with its own set of problems.

hilizzy265

Definitely. They need to learn that miniskirts don’t guarantee sex. Especially in hot places. It gets to almost 100 Fahrenheit here in the summer, but a lot of guys will still equate short dresses and skirts with sex. It’s stupid. And even if a girl is dressed like a prostitute, you can’t decide she must want to sleep with everyone.

Yeah, geez.

Where's the equivalent standard for men, huh? If a guy walks around topless, can I assume he wants me to force him into submission and penetrate him?

hilizzy265

Yea, if it’s fake (or grey), it’ll get thrown out. Some people would lie, but the number would be small. If you claim that, they do tests around your v****a- seeing who you had sex with, how hard it was, things like that. Of course, if it’s not messed up because you went limp, they say it’s obviously willing. If it shows hard sex, the defense lawyer will make the claim that you just like rough sex. And of course, if you wanted to try it, then didn’t like it, you’d claim rape. It’s hard to win. Especially if you’ve had sex with multiple people. People need to claim it when it’s real, just to help people understand. Then again, if I were one of them, I’d think twice about prosecuting. But if enough people claim it, the cities will actually do something- nothing like crime on their neighborhood going up to spring politicians into action.

Institutionalised misogyny for the yay!

And I know you need to have evidence, but I don't think most rape survivors are going to be up for a little vaginal prodding right after their assault -- not to mention how problematic those kinds of tests are, as you've outlined. That's another reason why it rarely makes it to court even in cases of violent, stranger rape (i.e. "the" rape, the most black-and-white, cut-and-dry kind of rape that everyone agrees is what it is).

hilizzy265

Is that the link you meant to send me? It was just some guy talking about immigration and putting down the government- it didn’t look like the Daily Mail got that deep.

Oops. No, it was actually a diatribe by Richard Littlejohn about how 5 prostitutes murdered in Ipswitch ... kind of ... deserved it. Fascinating stuff.

They provided a picture of him at the top of the article so you know who to imagine beating to death.  

[hilizzy265]

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

And some people would thing I was over-reacting.

Right, it's "over-reacting" and yet this is the reaction we're taught to have: you fear strange men, or else you get raped -- unless I'm the strange man, in which case you're a cold-hearted over-reacting b***h who doesn't recognise that I'm just a shy woobie looking for love.

I know! It’s a no win. But I just kept driving and turned my music on a bit louder and eventually he left. I hate when you’re driving home at night and someone pulls into your neighborhood behind you. It’s a hard call as far as what to do. Oh! One thing the DMV needs to do- you shouldn’t be allowed to get license plates with anything about you on it(like name). Because a person might call out your name, naturally you stop and assume they know you. People get mugged/raped/ all sorts of things by that.

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

well I meant women in general, but multi-minorities do face a lot of discrimination. That one article I showed you earlier was about some black lesbian women. I personally thing LGBT people face more discrimination that any ethnic minority.

It's a different kind of discrimination, and I'm not really in the business of ranking them. You can be in the closet as a gay person, but you can't be in the closet as black, or asian -- unless you're passing. And the whole dynamic of "in" vs "out" and "passing" vs "not passing"... it's complicated, and I'm not gonna pretend I understand it.
Each status comes with its own set of problems.

That’s true, however, there are generally less people trying to affect the minorities’ ability to get married, but how many states are trying to put it in the Constitutions?

Ugh… which reminds me of the most evil person I’ve ever had the misfortune of hearing of… Rhonda Storms. She hates everyone equally! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronda_Storms (I don’t usually trust Wiki, but they managed to get her evil right). Evil evil evil evil EVIL! I can’t put enough evils to express her pure… evil

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

Definitely. They need to learn that miniskirts don’t guarantee sex. Especially in hot places. It gets to almost 100 Fahrenheit here in the summer, but a lot of guys will still equate short dresses and skirts with sex. It’s stupid. And even if a girl is dressed like a prostitute, you can’t decide she must want to sleep with everyone.

Yeah, geez.
Where's the equivalent standard for men, huh? If a guy walks around topless, can I assume he wants me to force him into submission and penetrate him?

And a lot of guys would be like “Hell yeah!!!”. But not a**l *guy acts ackward at repressed homosexual thoughts*.

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

Yea, if it’s fake (or grey), it’ll get thrown out. Some people would lie, but the number would be small. If you claim that, they do tests around your v****a- seeing who you had sex with, how hard it was, things like that. Of course, if it’s not messed up because you went limp, they say it’s obviously willing. If it shows hard sex, the defense lawyer will make the claim that you just like rough sex. And of course, if you wanted to try it, then didn’t like it, you’d claim rape. It’s hard to win. Especially if you’ve had sex with multiple people. People need to claim it when it’s real, just to help people understand. Then again, if I were one of them, I’d think twice about prosecuting. But if enough people claim it, the cities will actually do something- nothing like crime on their neighborhood going up to spring politicians into action.

And I know you need to have evidence, but I don't think most rape survivors are going to be up for a little vaginal prodding right after their assault -- not to mention how problematic those kinds of tests are, as you've outlined. That's another reason why it rarely makes it to court even in cases of violent, stranger rape (i.e. "the" rape, the most black-and-white, cut-and-dry kind of rape that everyone agrees is what it is).

I know. And while I’m sure some of the doctors are nice, I’d bet there are some who assume the person’s lying and who go in court saying “well it coulllld be rape, but there’s nothing to indicate that (rather than saying those tests can’t ever *prove* one way of the other)”

Foetus In Fetu

hilizzy265

Is that the link you meant to send me? It was just some guy talking about immigration and putting down the government- it didn’t look like the Daily Mail got that deep.

Oops. No, it was actually a diatribe by Richard Littlejohn about how 5 prostitutes murdered in Ipswitch ... kind of ... deserved it. Fascinating stuff.
They provided a picture of him at the top of the article so you know who to imagine beating to death.

:/ All I saw was an article about how British people need to stop throwing immigrants back wherever they came from. Some Colombian guy who had something happen to him. Then he went on a radio show and argued with LittleJohn (lol that makes me think of the rapper) and he said that immigrants commit crime and cost money but had no facts. Though I do hate people who think strippers and prostitutes have no rights.