Animist?

[TatteredAngel]

TeaDidikai

Sometimes we look silly when we are acting on what is asked of us. I sing. I sound like someone is beating a cat with a broken violin. I sing anyway. Rather go to sleep content that I did what I should have, than go to sleep concerned both with how I appear to others and to my gods. Or in a case such as this- I would rather be embarrassed than aloof.

It's not so much a matter of pride or anything, just that the sillier I feel, the less likely I am to get something important. I can only think of it like "Well, hello, copic marker, I'd like to make a great picture with you today," and that sounds like I'm trying to host a toddler's tv show. I'm not sure how to do it so that something productive comes out of it rather than it being just yet another form of talking to myself, which I do way too much.  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

"Well, hello, copic marker, I'd like to make a great picture with you today," and that sounds like I'm trying to host a toddler's tv show.

Why would you address them as such? confused To be honest, if I was your pen, I would look at you and wonder if you had been sniffing the sharpie behind my back.

We don't need to talk down to the spirits around us any more than we need to talk down to our gods- do we?

Quote:

I'm not sure how to do it so that something productive comes out of it rather than it being just yet another form of talking to myself, which I do way too much.

Well, if you are talking to yourself- to hear yourself, I would agree. But the usual point of talking to things is to listen to them in return.  

[TatteredAngel]

TeaDidikai

Why would you address them as such? confused To be honest, if I was your pen, I would look at you and wonder if you had been sniffing the sharpie behind my back.

We don't need to talk down to the spirits around us any more than we need to talk down to our gods- do we?

Therin lies my problem, though. I really don't know how I should be addressing it. Not having a lot of experience with spirits or gods, I'm shaky on just how to go about it. I have no context for speaking with my art materials, and I'm bad enough at meeting new people in contexts I'm already familiar with that I really don't know what to do.

So really, any suggestions, however basic they might seem to you, would be great. It's all new territory for me.  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

Therin lies my problem, though. I really don't know how I should be addressing it.

What's it's personality?

I walk into a room with a group of strangers and I watch and listen for a bit. The bubbly girl in the corner will enjoy a couple jokes I know. The quite guy by the kitchen wants to be left alone- but then, he happens to be between me and the stove that makes the tea, so rather than be rude, he'll get a nod and a "hey" and I'll scoot past him. The lady in the chair wants to listen to me talk about myself and the guy over by the book shelf wants to talk about himself.

My personal experience says that objects aren't a whole lot different. No body language to speak of, but other clues are present.

How are you at "feeling" people up out?

Quote:

Not having a lot of experience with spirits or gods, I'm shaky on just how to go about it.

When I find all else has failed- I ask. But that might just be me.

Does this make sense?  

[Fiddlers Green]

Okay, alot of this is oathbound...

However, my research has led me to the understanding that there is an Animus in all things, A Genus. Furthermore, for the most part, in inanimate (oh the irony of that word) objects, the Genus, or animus, is dormant. In the case of Living beings, it is far more complicated.

I don't have time on the borrowed computer to go into detail, but I need time to ask exactly how much I am allowed to share, so the lack of time is not entirely unfortunate. ninja  

[TeaDidikai]

Interesting. The concept of dormant v. awake seems to be rather limited in the wider views on Animism I have come across.  

[TatteredAngel]

TeaDidikai

TatteredAngel

Therin lies my problem, though. I really don't know how I should be addressing it.

What's it's personality?

Markers, playful. Moody-- I make more mistakes with markers than just about anything else, which is partially my own fault, and paper density and stuff, and partially because, well, sometimes they just don't cooperate. Heh.

Quote:

My personal experience says that objects aren't a whole lot different. No body language to speak of, but other clues are present.

How are you at "feeling" people up out?

I am fantastic at feeling people up. twisted Oh... out. I'm all right. I'm empathetic enough that I get the moods of people pretty easily, though I'm miserable at knowing how to react to those moods. And I couldn't say for sure how much of it is dependent on the very human cues of voice and expression and body language.

Quote:

When I find all else has failed- I ask. But that might just be me.

Does this make sense?

It does, and I might as well try. You've talked some about awake versus non-awake... in your view, how much of a difference would that make in regards to starting up conversation, as it were?  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

and partially because, well, sometimes they just don't cooperate. Heh.

Why do you think that might be?

Quote:

And I couldn't say for sure how much of it is dependent on the very human cues of voice and expression and body language.

Tea's catch phrase:
Test It.

Quote:

It does, and I might as well try. You've talked some about awake versus non-awake... in your view, how much of a difference would that make in regards to starting up conversation, as it were?

Tell ya what. Sometime I will give you my phone number and you can call my home and ask to speak to my husband at 7am. wink

It's about like that. mrgreen

However- I could also speak with you- and usually, even if I am not fully alert- I can at least pull off "pleasant".  

[iRTsuki]

TeaDidikai

patch99329

*cheers*I was hoping a thread about animism would pop up. I didn't have enough to make a topic myself.

Patch- you should PM me with this kind of stuff. I'm always up for working on this kind of thing.

Quote:

I am not an animist, because it dosen't quite add up in my head.
If even inanimate objects have a spirit, what about things that were living but are now dead? Does a corpse still have awareness?

My personal experience says "Yes" actually.

I usually break spirits of corporeal things into two groups. Awakened and not.

Just because something has an aware spirit does not mean that the spirit is always orientated to external stimuli.

A hair plucked from my head is essentially dead. But the proteins that make up my hair can be awakened.

Within my beliefs sympathetic magic doesn't rely on the idea that the hair is part of me, but on the idea that the spirits awakened (or forced while they are in an unconscious state) connect to me by means of the knowledge of who I am and their memory of me. (This knowledge could be likened to true names, or true voices etc)

Quote:

And what if an inanimate object is made from a multitude of things, some of which were alive once? Do all these compnents merge into one?

Again- a whole and the spirit there of is more than the sum of it's parts. If we look as this as a puzzle, each piece of the puzzle can be identified as an individual. However- the puzzle itself can be identified as an individual as well. It depends on which is awake or not.

Dragon_Witch_Woman

While I belive all living things have a spirit (including plants), I don't belive non-living things have a spirit. So, no, I'm not an animist.

Is there a reason you draw the line between "alive" and not alive?

much like the idea that the stand of hair is a gateway to knowing everything about you because of its dna/spirit not awakened etc. This is very close the Shinto beliefs which I am beginning to study now. and It makes a lot of sense. So i would say yes to the original question. In relation to shinto Kami is everywhere, and in some places the power of Kami is concentrated and easier to feel/see. A place like Mt Fuji is related to Kami, even though nothing religious happened, the mountain always was and always will be. I saw a short program on NHK how it is known to try to climb the mountain at least once in your lifetime, and its held very special, and if you cant climb the actual mountain there are shrines with mini mounds made from the rocks from the mountain to create the journey. It truly looks beautiful and i hope to go myself someday.

-edit-
Firenation Innara
let me know if it got this right, i want to learn more about Shinto so i want to make sure my information is correct.  

[TeaDidikai]

AisuruTsuki

In relation to shinto Kami is everywhere, and in some places the power of Kami is concentrated and easier to feel/see.

Kami are spirits that are native to Japan and some Pacific Islands- they aren't universal according to the bulk of Shinto dogma (and Shinto heresy/fluffyism isn't something I really want to wade into).  

[iRTsuki]

TeaDidikai

AisuruTsuki

In relation to shinto Kami is everywhere, and in some places the power of Kami is concentrated and easier to feel/see.

Kami are spirits that are native to Japan and some Pacific Islands- they aren't universal according to the bulk of Shinto dogma (and Shinto heresy/fluffyism isn't something I really want to wade into).

Doesn't mean i cant learn about it. which is what i am trying to do. And from what i have read Shinto has no formal dogma.
(EDIT: there was some evidence but there are various ways of practice. some orthodox some not.)
see linkTypes of Shinto

http://www.japan-zone.com/omnibus/shinto.shtml

Quote:

Unlike the world's major religions, Shinto has no fixed dogma, moral precepts, or sacred scriptures.

There is the Kojiki but that is more a history and record.

not to mention there is a Shinto shrine in America.
http://www.tsubakishrine.com/  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

Interesting. The concept of dormant v. awake seems to be rather limited in the wider views on Animism I have come across.

Have you come across mostly religious or scholarly views?

We also use the term dormant very loosely, in that a dormant Genus may just not want to interact, or may choose not to.
I suppose it would be better to classify it as active vs passive.

Also, from my experience, Genus can be just as petty stubborn and obnoxious as anyone else. Altho there are some similar traits between them (we generally expect all Geni of the same material, size and shape to have vaguely similar attitudes so to speak, much as certain generalizations about species of animals occur).  

[TeaDidikai]

AisuruTsuki

Doesn't mean i cant learn about it.

Never said that. I was simply correcting an assertion.

Quote:

And from what i have read Shinto has no formal dogma.

People say that about Wicca too. wink

And I can assure you that State, Shrine and Sect Shinto has had formal dogma throughout the ages- not the least of which are procedures to enter into shrines, the position of the Emperor as Kami etc.

While some dogma has changed, that isn't the same as it having never been.

Quote:

not to mention there is a Shinto shrine in America.
http://www.tsubakishrine.com/

Does it meet the standards that one would expect a Shinto Priest from Ise to hold? Not as far as I can tell.  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Have you come across mostly religious or scholarly views?

We also use the term dormant very loosely, in that a dormant Genus may just not want to interact, or may choose not to.
I suppose it would be better to classify it as active vs passive.

Also, from my experience, Genus can be just as petty stubborn and obnoxious as anyone else. Altho there are some similar traits between them (we generally expect all Geni of the same material, size and shape to have vaguely similar attitudes so to speak, much as certain generalizations about species of animals occur).

Largely religious. That's why I found it interesting. I like it when I hear about something I have in common with others.  

[iRTsuki]

TeaDidikai

AisuruTsuki

Doesn't mean i cant learn about it.

Never said that. I was simply correcting an assertion.

Quote:

And from what i have read Shinto has no formal dogma.

People say that about Wicca too. wink

And I can assure you that State, Shrine and Sect Shinto has had formal dogma throughout the ages- not the least of which are procedures to enter into shrines, the position of the Emperor as Kami etc.

While some dogma has changed, that isn't the same as it having never been.

Quote:

not to mention there is a Shinto shrine in America.
http://www.tsubakishrine.com/

Does it meet the standards that one would expect a Shinto Priest from Ise to hold? Not as far as I can tell.

the priest from the shrine in America was trained at a shrine in japan, his book is on the site, im reading it now, and there is folk shinto which doesn't hold the same type of dogma as shrine shinto does at least it looks that way from what i am reading. i do like the folk aspect of using some of the divination or even a kamidama.
book link
Kami no Michi