Questions on Recon Religions

[TeaDidikai]

patch99329

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.

I know it is quite common in some Meso-Pagan traditions, and I have heard of a bull sacrifice done by some Hellenics out in Yelm. But that's about it.  

[maenad nuri]

TeaDidikai

patch99329

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.

I know it is quite common in some Meso-Pagan traditions, and I have heard of a bull sacrifice done by some Hellenics out in Yelm. But that's about it.

I've heard of a couple of bbq's being done, but that's about it too. Also, high drama web arguments.  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

Nuri

TeaDidikai

patch99329

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.

I know it is quite common in some Meso-Pagan traditions, and I have heard of a bull sacrifice done by some Hellenics out in Yelm. But that's about it.

I've heard of a couple of bbq's being done, but that's about it too. Also, high drama web arguments.

I was thinking about the legalities involved in that. I heard on Animal Cops Huston that animal sacrifice is legal, as long as the animal isn't subjected to prolonged torcher, but I didn't know if that applies to just Texas or all states.  

[TeaDidikai]

Dragon_Witch_Woman

Nuri

TeaDidikai

patch99329

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.

I know it is quite common in some Meso-Pagan traditions, and I have heard of a bull sacrifice done by some Hellenics out in Yelm. But that's about it.

I've heard of a couple of bbq's being done, but that's about it too. Also, high drama web arguments.

I was thinking about the legalities involved in that. I heard on Animal Cops Huston that animal sacrifice is legal, as long as the animal isn't subjected to prolonged torcher, but I didn't know if that applies to just Texas or all states.

Different states, different counties, different cities, different laws.

Often it is a matter of both "Animal Cruelty" and "Slaughter" laws.  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

TeaDidikai

Dragon_Witch_Woman

Nuri

TeaDidikai

patch99329

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.

I know it is quite common in some Meso-Pagan traditions, and I have heard of a bull sacrifice done by some Hellenics out in Yelm. But that's about it.

I've heard of a couple of bbq's being done, but that's about it too. Also, high drama web arguments.

I was thinking about the legalities involved in that. I heard on Animal Cops Huston that animal sacrifice is legal, as long as the animal isn't subjected to prolonged torcher, but I didn't know if that applies to just Texas or all states.

Different states, different counties, different cities, different laws.

Often it is a matter of both "Animal Cruelty" and "Slaughter" laws.

I'll have to look them both up in Florida. I live pretty close to a hick town (Mims, Florida) so I'm sure there will be laws for slaughtering meat.  

[TeaDidikai]

Dragon_Witch_Woman

I'll have to look them both up in Florida. I live pretty close to a hick town (Mims, Florida) so I'm sure there will be laws for slaughtering meat.

Yep. Slaughter laws are the ones you'll most likely have to deal with.  

[Autumnal Light]

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

mute_coyote

Something I've been wondering about recently is the process of reconstructing old religions which have fallen out of common usage or even died out completely. The first thing that comes to mind when I read the term "reconstruction" is that the practitioners are trying to take what they know to practice the religion as close to it's original form as possible. Yet I've noticed that in Asatru, things like the Nine Noble Virtues have been added to the historical framework. In another thread, Deoridhe explained modifications as

Deoridhe

what the worship of our gods might have looked like if it had survived uninterrupted.

This is interesting, because a religion that is around for any length of time can undergo a lot of change and schisms among the practitioners. In addition, I can imagine that some ancient religious practices would require quite a bit of change to make them acceptable to modern sensibilities. What sort of changes are permissable? Are there some things which simply cannot be changed? These questions can be taken as referring to recon religions in general or to the one with which you are most familiar as long as you specify it in your post.

Heilsan Mute_Coyote ok Allir,

Something that needs to be clearly understood about the Germanic Folkway, is that, as a cultural tradition, it is as much about the way of life of the people involved as it is the gods and goddesses. Modernisation of practice, or modification of practice is in line with our ancestral models where such modernisation/modification is based on historically verifiable content or context. The Nine Noble Virtues for example, were an attempt to codify what people believed to be the central, core elements of Odinism (as that is it's source) and as such, one could consider it a cultural move coming from a particular 'tribe' if you will. Whilst certain things were common throughout the Germanic peoples (read Tacitus), many things were different too. Does the practice of another group detract from that of my own? No, I think not. What I do think detracts from the practices of the Folkway as a whole, is the wholesale integration of UPG into the Folkway without sufficient testing of such UPG. In todays world of the Internet, anyone with some time, and a very small amount of money can put up a website with pretty much anything upon it, and call it what-ever they will, and represent themselves however they wish to. It's only in my opinion a problem for those whom are new to the Germanic Folkways and might be finding their feet for the first time, as the more conflicting information that's out there, the more confused they'll be and the increased level of detraction from our ancestral traditions will ensue.

In regards the practice of animal sacrifice, it is my considered opinion that where this can be done well, it should be done, but where it cannot be done well, it shouldn't be done at all. Remember that once upon a time many folk butchered their own livestock, something that very few people have experience of today, and indeed, there are very few people whom still know how to kill an animal without causing it undue pain via their bare hands or with basic impliments. I fully support animal sacrifice where it is done well and within the context of the folk beliefs of the peoples concerned.

I am loathe to change practices willy-nilly, but rather would see things develop slowly, as they tend to do in a culture anyways. My own development and attitudinal change is a prime example. I am very much a different person now in my Folkway than I was when I first became interested in the Runes some 15 years ago. And it's taken 15 years to get to this point in my life, and my ideas have changed slowly, and carefully, always testing the changes to ensure that they do indeed fit, not only with my own practice but also with that of the Folk whom form my community, as my practice is as much for their benefit as it is for my own.

Ver thu heil

Thank you for your thorough response! Reading this reminds me of the importance of religion in a cultural context. It also makes me wonder how people who have been practicing small, local, or reconstructed religions for a long time (a lifetime, even) might feel about someone without the cultural background coming in and wanting to join their religion. Are outsiders generally welcomed openly, welcomed conditionally, or welcomed not at all? I'm curious, because I have heard the advice given before that people should try to get in touch with their own religious and cultural roots before they go off and try to join in the religion of another culture.  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

Nuri

TeaDidikai

patch99329

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.

I know it is quite common in some Meso-Pagan traditions, and I have heard of a bull sacrifice done by some Hellenics out in Yelm. But that's about it.

I've heard of a couple of bbq's being done, but that's about it too. Also, high drama web arguments.

Heilsan Allir,

Tea - Yes, I would have to say that Germanic/Nordic Recon tend to be more inclined to in my experience than any other group. Livestock were a very large part of our ancestral tradition, and as such, we probably place a much greater emphasis on them, given that slaughter of animals was a very big part of the social fabric in earlier times.

Nuri - Yes, in many cases this is as close as many get to sacrifice today, and I must say that I too have only gone that far, but if all goes according to plan, when I am able to retire in many years hence, I am hoping that I can have a farmstead where-upon I can raise animals and engage in traditional ritual activity.

Dragon_Witch_Woman - Yes, I concur, one needs to be very careful and mindful of the local authorities, especially in areas which are no longer rural, as their attitudes and concepts can often be far removed from that of people from rural communities.

Ver thu heil  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

mute_coyote

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

mute_coyote

Something I've been wondering about recently is the process of reconstructing old religions which have fallen out of common usage or even died out completely. The first thing that comes to mind when I read the term "reconstruction" is that the practitioners are trying to take what they know to practice the religion as close to it's original form as possible. Yet I've noticed that in Asatru, things like the Nine Noble Virtues have been added to the historical framework. In another thread, Deoridhe explained modifications as

Deoridhe

what the worship of our gods might have looked like if it had survived uninterrupted.

This is interesting, because a religion that is around for any length of time can undergo a lot of change and schisms among the practitioners. In addition, I can imagine that some ancient religious practices would require quite a bit of change to make them acceptable to modern sensibilities. What sort of changes are permissable? Are there some things which simply cannot be changed? These questions can be taken as referring to recon religions in general or to the one with which you are most familiar as long as you specify it in your post.

Heilsan Mute_Coyote ok Allir,

Something that needs to be clearly understood about the Germanic Folkway, is that, as a cultural tradition, it is as much about the way of life of the people involved as it is the gods and goddesses. Modernisation of practice, or modification of practice is in line with our ancestral models where such modernisation/modification is based on historically verifiable content or context. The Nine Noble Virtues for example, were an attempt to codify what people believed to be the central, core elements of Odinism (as that is it's source) and as such, one could consider it a cultural move coming from a particular 'tribe' if you will. Whilst certain things were common throughout the Germanic peoples (read Tacitus), many things were different too. Does the practice of another group detract from that of my own? No, I think not. What I do think detracts from the practices of the Folkway as a whole, is the wholesale integration of UPG into the Folkway without sufficient testing of such UPG. In todays world of the Internet, anyone with some time, and a very small amount of money can put up a website with pretty much anything upon it, and call it what-ever they will, and represent themselves however they wish to. It's only in my opinion a problem for those whom are new to the Germanic Folkways and might be finding their feet for the first time, as the more conflicting information that's out there, the more confused they'll be and the increased level of detraction from our ancestral traditions will ensue.

In regards the practice of animal sacrifice, it is my considered opinion that where this can be done well, it should be done, but where it cannot be done well, it shouldn't be done at all. Remember that once upon a time many folk butchered their own livestock, something that very few people have experience of today, and indeed, there are very few people whom still know how to kill an animal without causing it undue pain via their bare hands or with basic impliments. I fully support animal sacrifice where it is done well and within the context of the folk beliefs of the peoples concerned.

I am loathe to change practices willy-nilly, but rather would see things develop slowly, as they tend to do in a culture anyways. My own development and attitudinal change is a prime example. I am very much a different person now in my Folkway than I was when I first became interested in the Runes some 15 years ago. And it's taken 15 years to get to this point in my life, and my ideas have changed slowly, and carefully, always testing the changes to ensure that they do indeed fit, not only with my own practice but also with that of the Folk whom form my community, as my practice is as much for their benefit as it is for my own.

Ver thu heil

Thank you for your thorough response! Reading this reminds me of the importance of religion in a cultural context. It also makes me wonder how people who have been practicing small, local, or reconstructed religions for a long time (a lifetime, even) might feel about someone without the cultural background coming in and wanting to join their religion. Are outsiders generally welcomed openly, welcomed conditionally, or welcomed not at all? I'm curious, because I have heard the advice given before that people should try to get in touch with their own religious and cultural roots before they go off and try to join in the religion of another culture.

Heilsan Mute_Coyote ok Allir,

Where the person approaches with an attitude of respect, and wishes to learn, then there's no problem. Even when they come up with 'interesting' ideas, as long as they are open to dialogue and critique, then I see no issue. Ordinarily, outsiders tend to be considered welcome, and to begin with they are granted latitude in their behaviours due to their having been outside the culture. As time passes, and they learn, they then become a part of the group. I strongly concur that people should investigate their own ancestral traditions, but unfortunately for some this is impossible (where their ancestral traditions have been so heavily diluted or even destroyed), or can be difficult where they are the product of a multicultural relationship. Invariably in such relationships, there is the possibility that either one or one of a few cultures may come to dominate, that is if the person isn't enamoured by the modern corporate consumer culture that exists. Case in point, the most searched phrase for 2007 in Australian Google and Yahoo? "Britney Spears" (I am so hoping that this is due to pre-pubescent boys searching for snaps of Britneys beaver, rather than a true enamourment with Britneys lifestyle, for if it's the latter, then certain segements of the human race are doomed... hmmmm, not that that's a bad thing twisted ).

Ver thu heil  

[TeaDidikai]

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

Heilsan Allir,

Tea - Yes, I would have to say that Germanic/Nordic Recon tend to be more inclined to in my experience than any other group. Livestock were a very large part of our ancestral tradition, and as such, we probably place a much greater emphasis on them, given that slaughter of animals was a very big part of the social fabric in earlier times.

Ver thu heil

And feasting. Feasts seem to be less and less important in Modern Paganism than Rituals.

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

mute_coyote

Thank you for your thorough response! Reading this reminds me of the importance of religion in a cultural context. It also makes me wonder how people who have been practicing small, local, or reconstructed religions for a long time (a lifetime, even) might feel about someone without the cultural background coming in and wanting to join their religion. Are outsiders generally welcomed openly, welcomed conditionally, or welcomed not at all? I'm curious, because I have heard the advice given before that people should try to get in touch with their own religious and cultural roots before they go off and try to join in the religion of another culture.

Heilsan Mute_Coyote ok Allir,

Where the person approaches with an attitude of respect, and wishes to learn, then there's no problem. Even when they come up with 'interesting' ideas, as long as they are open to dialogue and critique, then I see no issue. Ordinarily, outsiders tend to be considered welcome, and to begin with they are granted latitude in their behaviours due to their having been outside the culture. As time passes, and they learn, they then become a part of the group. I strongly concur that people should investigate their own ancestral traditions, but unfortunately for some this is impossible (where their ancestral traditions have been so heavily diluted or even destroyed), or can be difficult where they are the product of a multicultural relationship. Invariably in such relationships, there is the possibility that either one or one of a few cultures may come to dominate, that is if the person isn't enamoured by the modern corporate consumer culture that exists. Case in point, the most searched phrase for 2007 in Australian Google and Yahoo? "Britney Spears" (I am so hoping that this is due to pre-pubescent boys searching for snaps of Britneys beaver, rather than a true enamourment with Britneys lifestyle, for if it's the latter, then certain segements of the human race are doomed... hmmmm, not that that's a bad thing twisted ).

Ver thu heil

I'd add in the suggestion that such would also depend on which group one is looking to work within.

If someone approaches me and asks to be part of my tradition, the answer is going to be no.