|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:55 pm
 |
|
|
 |
P!NKIE I'm not affiliated with any religion but I think that nothing happens after death. You're just nothingness. But there's really no way to tell until you're actually dead. SketchySolid Well, I'm a Mennonite, and the way I understand it (and the way most Christians understand it, I think), is that when you die, you are judged. It's really simple: If you have asked for forgiveness for your sins, and if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, then you "pass the test", and get to go live with God forever in Heaven. If not, you are cut off from God forever, in Hell.
Note that how good you are, or whether you believe in God is not the deciding factor here. Just if you've accepted the gift of salvation from Jesus Christ.
Now that I've done my preaching for the day, as to what exactly that Heaven or Hell is like: I don't know. But Heaven is full of good stuff, and Hell... well... not so much. What about the other religions? The people who don't believe in Jesus? What happens to them?
X--->
If you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus you go to Hell.... So you go to Hell...
<---X |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:23 am
|
|
|
|
Emo_Like_A_Dinosaur P!NKIE What about the other religions? The people who don't believe in Jesus? What happens to them? X---> If you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus you go to Hell.... So you go to Hell... <---X If that religion was really all that great, it wouldn't punish people for seeing things differently or not believing in it.
How can anyone believe in something that will hurt others?
How can a God say pride is a sin when He expects people to worship him and accept Him as their only God?
God has become angry.
God has pride.
God is vain.
God has been greedy.
Jesus has become angry.
Jesus is vain.
Jesus has pride.
Jesus has envy.
It's all in the bible.
I don't see why Jesus & God are allowed to sin without going to Hell themselves and we're not allowed to sin or we'll be faced with eternal torment.
That just makes me think of God as a tyrant or a dictator.
Why would He get to decide where we go after we die?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:00 pm
|
|
|
|
Cheeto Bandito Emo_Like_A_Dinosaur P!NKIE What about the other religions? The people who don't believe in Jesus? What happens to them? X---> If you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus you go to Hell.... So you go to Hell... <---X If that religion was really all that great, it wouldn't punish people for seeing things differently or not believing in it.
How can anyone believe in something that will hurt others?
How can a God say pride is a sin when He expects people to worship him and accept Him as their only God?
God has become angry.
God has pride.
God is vain.
God has been greedy.
Jesus has become angry.
Jesus is vain.
Jesus has pride.
Jesus has envy.
It's all in the bible.
I don't see why Jesus & God are allowed to sin without going to Hell themselves and we're not allowed to sin or we'll be faced with eternal torment.
That just makes me think of God as a tyrant or a dictator.
Why would He get to decide where we go after we die?
X--->
It is specifically said in the Bible that God does not sin... neutral God was not vain, God was not greedy... Thanks for making me mad at you for dissing my religion...
<---X |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:03 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:08 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:25 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:42 am
|
|
|
|
PixieofDestruction Cheeto Bandito Why would He get to decide where we go after we die? Forgives us for what though?
I never asked Him to give me life. He just did.
So if I decide to hurt other people during my life, so what?
Good & bad/evil don't exist. Right or wrong doesn't exist.
It only exists cause society makes it that way.
So other people will punish me or forgive me or whatever. Not God.
If a dog steals a cookie
He won't consider it stealing, he considers it food that he wants to eat.
But if you kick the dog or yell at him angrily when he takes the cookie & eats it, the dog will usually never try to eat the cookie again because he associates pain with eating that cookie.
Did he think it was wrong or evil or bad? No.
Only cause you say it's wrong or evil or bad by hurting him or yelling at him for it.
I don't see God anywhere in here shaking his finger saying No, no, that's wrong. Bad doggy!
So, in my opinion, God isn't this dude or dudette or anything of form that sits up there in His so called Heaven waiting for Judgement day.
I think people gave Him some sort of form, so it'd be easier for people to believe.
And I think Heaven & Hell were made up by the church as a way to keep people from doing bad things as society considered them bad and to make people live their lives by church's rules, under the illusion of being rewarded in the 'afterlife.'
I also think 'afterlife' was made up so that you didn't have think about becoming non-existent.
Only humans worry about that.
I doubt an animal would be wondering about what happened after it died.
It lives right now. Whether doing things right or wrong. It's not waiting for the 'afterlife' to start living it's life.
You can say that's cause animals can't actually think.
But that's not true. They can think cause most mammals can dream and some birds can dream too.
But instead of thinking everything a million times over like humans do, they trust their instincts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:14 am
|
|
|
|
Cheeto Bandito Emo_Like_A_Dinosaur P!NKIE What about the other religions? The people who don't believe in Jesus? What happens to them? X---> If you don't repent for your sins and accept Jesus you go to Hell.... So you go to Hell... <---X If that religion was really all that great, it wouldn't punish people for seeing things differently or not believing in it.
How can anyone believe in something that will hurt others?
How can a God say pride is a sin when He expects people to worship him and accept Him as their only God?
God has become angry.
God has pride.
God is vain.
God has been greedy.
Jesus has become angry.
Jesus is vain.
Jesus has pride.
Jesus has envy.
It's all in the bible.
I don't see why Jesus & God are allowed to sin without going to Hell themselves and we're not allowed to sin or we'll be faced with eternal torment.
That just makes me think of God as a tyrant or a dictator.
Why would He get to decide where we go after we die?
As far as I see it, it's not about which religion is "better", but rather which one is "right". I know everyone has different experiences, but my experiences have led me to believe what I do believe today. It is the way that it is, even if it doesn't match the way we think a perfect religion should be.
Also, I think that there's a bit of a misconception here. Pride, envy etc. are elements of the Seven Deadly Sins that everyone has heard of. The Seven Deadly Sins are named rather misleadingly, though. They are not sins, themselves, but they are among the most common feelings that cause people to sin. It is not wrong for me to want to have a Ferrari. But if I see that my neighbour has one, and I am envious, and I intentionally scratch the car door out of spite, that's a sin. It's a deed influenced by my envy.
God has said in the Bible that He is a jealous God. This is not a sin. God does not want to lose any of His people. Most of us are like that; we want to keep what is ours. There is nothing inherently wrong with that.
As to God being a tyrant or a dictator: Well, He did create everything. He gets to make the rules. He's even given us a lot more freedom than I would have, had I been the one in charge. It's like when you're living at your parents' place. They make the rules, and you live by them. If you don't like them, get your own place. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:07 pm
|
|
|
|
SketchySolid As far as I see it, it's not about which religion is "better", but rather which one is "right". I know everyone has different experiences, but my experiences have led me to believe what I do believe today. It is the way that it is, even if it doesn't match the way we think a perfect religion should be. Also, I think that there's a bit of a misconception here. Pride, envy etc. are elements of the Seven Deadly Sins that everyone has heard of. The Seven Deadly Sins are named rather misleadingly, though. They are not sins, themselves, but they are among the most common feelings that cause people to sin. It is not wrong for me to want to have a Ferrari. But if I see that my neighbour has one, and I am envious, and I intentionally scratch the car door out of spite, that's a sin. It's a deed influenced by my envy. God has said in the Bible that He is a jealous God. This is not a sin. God does not want to lose any of His people. Most of us are like that; we want to keep what is ours. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. As to God being a tyrant or a dictator: Well, He did create everything. He gets to make the rules. He's even given us a lot more freedom than I would have, had I been the one in charge. It's like when you're living at your parents' place. They make the rules, and you live by them. If you don't like them, get your own place. But did 'God' create Heaven/Hell or was this a concept made by the church?
And if 'God' did create Heaven & Hell, where's the proof? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:57 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:17 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:59 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:13 am
|
|
|
|
I can understand the frustration that these theological debates cause.
Anyway, some of the things that you complain about regarding the Christian faith are things that I don't think come from the Bible itself. It's not a belief in God that saves you. It's asking Him to save you, and then trusting Him to do it.
As for Hell being torture, it is true that many people have the idea of "Fire and Brimstone". It does say that Satan and his demons will be thrown into a lake of flaming sulfur at the end of the world, but I can't recall ever reading that this would be the fate of all who are not saved. Hell is a separation from God. I imagine it as being similar to the slums, where there is no one to uphold the law, or perhaps an isolation from all others. Either way, it's not pleasant, but it's a far cry from torture. We don't accuse the justice system of torture for sentencing people to jail.
As for discrimination, I don't think there's anyone who would truly believe that all people should be treated equally. Would you let your daughter's friend come over after school for an afternoon to play? Probably. Would you let a thirty-five year old, known child molester do the same? I would hope not. People fight against undue discrimination. We want to give all people an equal chance. The thing is, the stuff that you do will affect how people continue to view you. God operates much the same way. He has given everyone an equal chance. No race or creed of people is turned down. No person is born with the inability to become a child of God.
I'm sorry if I come across as pushy. I just want people to understand what I believe the whole Heaven/Hell thing is all about. I think the general opinion is based mostly on second- or third-hand knowledge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:13 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:49 am
|
|
|
|
Cheeto Bandito ] Forgives us for what though? I never asked Him to give me life. He just did. So if I decide to hurt other people during my life, so what?
For lots of things. C'mon, you're not a child. You know what is good and what isn't just by instinct, not because it was taught to you. And yes, there is a lot of grey area when it comes to everything.
Quote: Good & bad/evil don't exist. Right or wrong doesn't exist. It only exists cause society makes it that way. So other people will punish me or forgive me or whatever. Not God.
Our legal "punishing" is very lenient. The death penalty isn't done a lot in the US and its not like in Arab countries where you get you hand chopped off on the spot if you steal something. There is good and bad. Example: There are millions of children who get abused every day. Physically, mentally and sexually. So that's no different from something good?
Quote: If a dog steals a cookie He won't consider it stealing, he considers it food that he wants to eat. But if you kick the dog or yell at him angrily when he takes the cookie & eats it, the dog will usually never try to eat the cookie again because he associates pain with eating that cookie. Did he think it was wrong or evil or bad? No. Only cause you say it's wrong or evil or bad by hurting him or yelling at him for it. I don't see God anywhere in here shaking his finger saying No, no, that's wrong. Bad doggy!
A dog isn't stealing a cookie with malice. What's behind evil/bad is the intention. Are you doing it with malice or is it mindless action?
I don't see him shaking his finger at us either. He lets us do what we want because he gave us free will. That's what makes it rewarding to HIm, I think. Knowing that you CHOOSE to go in his path eventhough you don't have to and aren't pushed to it.
Quote: So, in my opinion, God isn't this dude or dudette or anything of form that sits up there in His so called Heaven waiting for Judgement day. I think people gave Him some sort of form, so it'd be easier for people to believe. And I think Heaven & Hell were made up by the church as a way to keep people from doing bad things as society considered them bad and to make people live their lives by church's rules, under the illusion of being rewarded in the 'afterlife.' I also think 'afterlife' was made up so that you didn't have think about becoming non-existent. Only humans worry about that. I doubt an animal would be wondering about what happened after it died. It lives right now. Whether doing things right or wrong. It's not waiting for the 'afterlife' to start living it's life. You can say that's cause animals can't actually think. But that's not true. They can think cause most mammals can dream and some birds can dream too. But instead of thinking everything a million times over like humans do, they trust their instincts.
Animals do think. They're very smart. I get where you're getting at, though. Animals don't have to think about those things because they don't have a soul. My dad also explained to me that we can't understand animals for a reason: we'd go insane: They worship God 24/7. We can't handle that, that's why we have so many questions. We really can't fathom everything and God understands that, I believe.
You have very strong opinions and I find it pretty refreshing. I hope you're not getting this as I'm trying to convert you. I'm just explaining what I've learned. I don't know everything but I could get some answers. Like I said, my dad studies religion every day. He's done a few exorsisms but anything you hear from me will be from a Catholic perspective. You're protistant but a lot of our beliefs are still the same. We're all Christians. It doesn't really matter what we are, though. God loves us all equally. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
