Episode 3 planing stuff

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

First  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

Yes and that is why in my notes those spells are treated as the ones in the list and that is why I have been kinda pushing away from the spell levels thing

And you can use a max of 2 spells in a turn but if you wanna say I'm doing this spell firat for purely aesthetic reasons that's fine

Ok, just give me a second to digest that and think about it. Because I kinda like Terran's spells developing into stronger versions. It allows him to specialize and makes it less likely for others to have the exact same spells in their arsenal. (Because it's also depressing when you're character becomes generic. Or a non-unique snowflake.)  

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

Ok, just give me a second to digest that and think about it. Because I kinda like Terran's spells developing into stronger versions. It allows him to specialize and makes it less likely for others to have the exact same spells in their arsenal. (Because it's also depressing when you're character becomes generic. Or a non-unique snowflake.)

Kk, but here is the thing your character isn't special and that is why it's great, he isn't some chosen hero he is just a dude living his life and taking things on the way he wants, the only "heros" are the kings  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

Haru Yates

Ok, just give me a second to digest that and think about it. Because I kinda like Terran's spells developing into stronger versions. It allows him to specialize and makes it less likely for others to have the exact same spells in their arsenal. (Because it's also depressing when you're character becomes generic. Or a non-unique snowflake.)

Kk, but here is the thing your character isn't special and that is why it's great, he isn't some chosen hero he is just a dude living his life and taking things on the way he wants, the only "heros" are the kings

True, he's not special. But he should be unique, or at the very least he should be interesting. Kind of like how Kate is the only one able to talk to faries. She's unique, so she's interesting. If everybody could talk to faries then what does that make Kate? If everybody is too similar, then they become generic and that's borring.
Let's put it this way: if somebody else has the same spell-set as Terran, then what the hell is Terran good for? Answer: absolutely nothing, because somebody else can do it all and he becomes a pointless hanger-on.  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

You see what I'm trying to say, right?
Too generic=replaceable and boring. We want to feel like we are making a difference in the story. (Or at the very least, like we are useful, if not memorable.)  

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

True, he's not special. But he should be unique, or at the very least he should be interesting. Kind of like how Kate is the only one able to talk to faries. She's unique, so she's interesting. If everybody could talk to faries then what does that make Kate? If everybody is too similar, then they become generic and that's borring.
Let's put it this way: if somebody else has the same spell-set as Terran, then what the hell is Terran good for? Answer: absolutely nothing, because somebody else can do it all and he becomes a pointless hanger-on.

Actually kate is not the only fairy tamer, and the things fairys do are all generic spells, actually a part of how magic works is from fairys without fairlys magic has no order. same as how kate is not the only half angel
And 1 spell is nothing, I would never make a character that is 1 for 1 another, also a part of what make a character special is how theu use spells and there personality like in IRL anyone could do the things you do and people do but you do them different and have your own personality  

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

You see what I'm trying to say, right?
Too generic=replaceable and boring. We want to feel like we are making a difference in the story. (Or at the very least, like we are useful, if not memorable.)

You make a difference in your story but your story is yours, you can make your character a hero by doing enough things that may kill you. And if you want special moments take something like tophat, no one will forget that time you cast a legendary spell to 1 shot a boss, also there is going to be 1000 shall I remind you, overlap is going to be rare  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

Haru Yates

True, he's not special. But he should be unique, or at the very least he should be interesting. Kind of like how Kate is the only one able to talk to faries. She's unique, so she's interesting. If everybody could talk to faries then what does that make Kate? If everybody is too similar, then they become generic and that's borring.
Let's put it this way: if somebody else has the same spell-set as Terran, then what the hell is Terran good for? Answer: absolutely nothing, because somebody else can do it all and he becomes a pointless hanger-on.

Actually kate is not the only fairy tamer, and the things fairys do are all generic spells, actually a part of how magic works is from fairys without fairlys magic has no order. same as how kate is not the only half angel
And 1 spell is nothing, I would never make a character that is 1 for 1 another, also a part of what make a character special is how theu use spells and there personality like in IRL anyone could do the things you do and people do but you do them different and have your own personality

Nope. I'm sure I can do things that you can't and I'm sure you can do things that I can't irl. (Or rather, we both can do whatever thing, but one of us will be better at doing it than the other person because of practice or natural talent. I can drive a car, but I can't drive like Mario Andretti.)

Besides, there are spells in my list that aren't on yours (or they are different enough to be considered a different spell). Does my spell-set count as spell stacking? Do I have to try and simplify my spells or do you trust me to play this spell-casting system in a balanced way? (Because I don't know how else to work them out properly.) crying  

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

Nope. I'm sure I can do things that you can't and I'm sure you can do things that I can't irl. (Or rather, we both can do whatever thing, but one of us will be better at doing it than the other person because of practice or natural talent. I can drive a car, but I can't drive like Mario Andretti.)

You can use spells better by being more creative with there uses and yeah I can't even drive, but there are minions of people who can and 1 of them as least is as good as you

Haru Yates

Besides, there are spells in my list that aren't on yours (or they are different enough to be considered a different spell). Does my spell-set count as spell stacking? Do I have to try and simplify my spells or do you trust me to play this spell-casting system in a balanced way? (Because I don't know how else to work them out properly.) crying

I reworked all of them to fit I made a few changes to the list since the last one character creation is simple, and for the spells that are different they are really just better versions of previous spells. Change it to be consistent with everything if you want(and that would make a lot of things easier for planning) but do what you want  

[Xa44]

DARK
(1)Conjure Shadow- create a shadow, or manipulate existing shardows
(2)Shadow Cloak- cover an area in Shadows that the caster can see clearly in
(3)Form of Shadow- temporarily become a Shadow
(4)Disarming Darkness- use Shadows to stop a target from using physical attacks
(5)Vampiric Prison- target anything nearby and trap it for a small amount of time and absorb HP from it over time
(6)Shadow Dart- summon a group of darts to then throw at targets within range for lesser DMG
(7)Shadow Blade- make tools out of shardows
( cool Seal Spell- target within range temporarily can't cast a spell they know
(9)illusion- create an allusion to confuse a faraway target
(10)Plague- touch a target and apply blind and poison
(11)Hidden Form- temporarily cover yourself in shadows when in this state you cannot be targeted
(12)Shade- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(13)Darkened Sky- cover the sky in Shadows, viability isn't hindered but the sun can't be seen
(14)Dreadful Rebirth- resurrect any target is range as an undead, what kind of undead creature depends on how strong the body's soul was
(15)Spirit Transfer- target any nearby corpse and move your soul into it, when taking over a corpse you may use one of there spells in place of this
(16)Falling Banishment- the battlefield cannot be moved out of
(17)Reaction Reaction- when a spell that can only be activated after another spell is cast is casted negative that spell
(100)Death Wish- by ending yourself; kill as many targets as you can think of

FIRE
(1)Fireball- target an area and do higher DMG to everything neer it
(2)Engulf- cover yourself in flames and DMG yourself and everyone neer you
(3)Burning Hands- touch a target and start it on fire
(4)Warmth- warm the battlefield, if a large amount of water is present steam will start to form
(5)Flame Step- if you are in the air: form flames under 1 foot and jump off of it
(6)Flame- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(7)Burning Circle- fire moves out of your body from all directions dealing lesser DMG to everything in range
( cool Flaming Fists- fire covers your hands making all punches and kicks you do be infused with fire
(9) Mystic Fire- burn a stratus ailment away from a nearby target
(10)Consuming flame- touch a target and severely burn them, dealing more DMG every turn it isn't treated

WATER
(1)Flatten- flatten yourself into nothing and reform somewhere nearby
(2)Bubble- put a target in a bubble and make it float upwards until it pops
(3)Flow- move ontop of a stream of water, when on the water you can move faster and have more control over your movements
(4)Waterfall- make a stream of water move toward a target, if hit the target of this spell will be moved to wherever the stream ends and will be nocked over
(5)Bleed- Enchant your blood: and use it for all water spells, DMG done by blood spells are higher then normal
(6)Clean- if you have yet to take DMG: deal high DMG to a farway target
(7)Splash- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
( cool Slash- if sand is around: target anything nearby and deal higher DMG to it
(9)Moist- Touch a taget and it sweats causing the area near them to be warm
(10)Blade- pull a stream of water out of a container: and target anything nearby and deal average DMG
(11)Slow- Make a nearby area be covered in water, anything attempting to move through this water will be heavily slowed
(12)Drip- if you are in the air: transform yourself into a drop of water and land anywhere nearby, if you land on a target deal minor DMG
(13)Geyser- if the nearby area is warm: launch yourself into the air dealing lesser DMG to everything nearby
(100)Bloody Needle- Deal avrage DMG to a target in range, the DMG done done by this spell increases depends on how much the target is bleeding

ICE
(1)Remove Heat- drain the heat from a target or item, this only does DMG if used multiple times
(2)Snow- create a cloud of snow that will move to a target
(3)Glacier- create a spike of ice this can only be formed where there is snow
(4)Snowball- create a snowball and throw it somewhere when it lands it expands and covers a large area in snow
(5)Change Terrain- change snow into ice or ice into snow
(6)Cold Counter- if you are targeted by a spell and the caster is standing on ice, you may freeze them to where they are standing
(7)Snow Slide- make snow expand that is touching existing snow
( cool Avalanche- if a large amount of snow is on the ground, make a wave of snow to land ontop of a target
(9)Shard- destroy all ice on the battlefield; deal high DMG to anything standing on ice
(10)Mirror- when targeted by a spell and ice is on the ground near you: once per day; trap the spell in a mirror and recast it until the mirror is broken
(11)Snowflake- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(100)Freeze Soul- freeze any target in time

NATURE
(1)Restoration- target something, the target will now gradually regenerate HP over time
(2)Polymorph2- turn into any animal
(3)Consume- eat something and gain a small amount of HP and become slightly larger
(4)Trap- make a wall of vines from the ground, these vines can only be destroyed by a fire spell
(5)Steal Leaf- enlarge a leaf to use as a shield
(6)Impale- turn your arm into a sharp tree branch to a attack a nearby target for avrage DMG
(7)Fall- make leafs from plant around you attack a target; a single leaf only does minor DMG
( cool Parasite- throw a seed at a target in range; witch will hatch and start to DMG the target, if the target of this spell gets near another target a seed will also be planted in them
(9)Leaf- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(10)Tangle- move vines around the battlefield and deal avrage DMG to anything that touches them, at the end of your turn you may shirnk the size of the area they cover
(11)Plant- plant a seed somewhere nearby; every turn the seed will grow a bit, every turn the plant will attack a nearby target and deal DMG depending on its size
(100)Decompose- turn any man made thing back to nature by touching it

EARTH
(1)Animate- turn a object into a minion
(2)Wall- bring a wall of stone out of the ground
(3)Amplification Crystal- make a crystal rise out of the ground, any spell cast through this will have its effect doubled
(4)Stone Skin- cover your skin in stone, when in this state you take less DMG from attacks, if you are targeted by a water spell the stone will fall apart
(5)Gravel Whirlwind- move nearby gravel or sand around you quickly Damaging nearby targets and shielding you from water magic
(6)Pebble- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(7)Pitfall- target 3 faraway locations and make a hole under the ground a target that stands there will be stuck there
( cool Roll- roll a wave of dirt over a target within range
(9)Mold- touch a rock to change state based on the temperature around it
(10)Crush- target the limb of any living thing around you and deal lesser DMG to that target until the spell falls or focus is lost
(11)Repurpose- use any number of minions to create a different object out of them
(12)Pupet Bomb- destroy any minion and deal average DMG to anything nearby the minion
(13)Stone Heart- make any 1 minion you control be unable to be targeted
(14)Sit- cover yourself in incredibly hard stone that even you cannot break, you can't move, take DMG, or deal DMG in this state, the stone will vanish after 1 day
(100)Gravity- increase the weight of a target or item, this cannot do DMG directly

AIR
(1)Gust- knock a target back a small amount and do average DMG
(2)Control Storms- manipulate the clouds above you to change the weather temporarily in a small area
(3)Focus Air- separate hot or cold air to attack a target with, DMG done by this spell depends on how hot or cold the air is
(4)Wind Walk- move somewhere in range
(5)Spin- if you are targeted by a spell change the target to a different nearby target
(6)Flow- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(7)Condense- gather air into a ball anywhere in range; after 15 seconds that area will explode Dealing high DMG to everything nearby it
( cool Tone- make the sound of a wind instrument in any area in range
(9)Dance of Blades- create blades of wind that spiral around you hitting everything nearby for lesser DMG
(10)Crinoline- create a small ball of wind to hold up light objects
(100)Unravel- teleport anywhere in the world instantly

LIGHTNING
(1)Chain Lightning- deal avrage DMG to a target and a target near that then a target near that target until there is no targets left to move to
(2)View Memories- look into the memories of a target near you
(3)Seance- you can know the location of all living things near you
(4)Charge- build up magical energy endlessly and gain power over time, restoring a slight amount of HP and increasing the effectiveness of your next attack
(5)Thunder Weapon- make a sword and instantly use it to attack a target, if you have a weapon you can cover that instead
(6)Transfer- send a message to a target located anywhere
(7)Generate Heat- hold a bolt of lightning and DMG anything that touches it, if this spell does DMG end it
( cool Spark- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(9)Thunder- strike down lightning from the sky at a target in range, dealing higher DMG
(10)Identity- target anything that can cast spells in range; all spells the target knows will be revived
(11)
(100)Total Gift- target anything in range; copy everything within there mind permanently

LIGHT
(1)Healing Light- lightly heal the party
(2)Healing Hand- touch a target to heal them greatly
(3)Healing Ray- heal a target within range
(4)Sunbeam- when the sun is visible: deal high DMG to a target in range
(5)Purify- remove curses and darkness from an area
(6)Blinding Flash- blind people around you
(7)Warmth- create a warm light that does minor DMG to all undead in a nearby area
( cool Honor Chains- form chains of light contenting you to a target, you and the target of this spell can only DMG each other
(9)Honor String- connect yourself to a willing target, DMG done to both you and the target is halved, but bolth targets take the DMG
(10)Honor Strike- DMG a nearby target, the DMG done by this spell is based on how much DMG you have taken
(11)Light- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(12)Resurrection- touch any target that has died in the last 30 seconds: and attempt to revive them
(13)
(100)Holly Sunbeam- when the sun is visible: deal absurd DMG to anything, when the sun isn't visible: cast Sunbeam from your hand

ARCANE
(1)Top Hat- cast a random spell either of one type or all types(decided at character creation)
(2)Polymorph1- change into any magical creature or any human
(3)Shield- shield the party
(4)Enchant Equipment- buff a piece of equipment permanently
(5)Arcane Beam- higher DMG line attack
(6)Magic Missile- homeing magic attack, deals avrage DMG
(7)Spell blade- Enchant a weapon with a random spell temporarily
( cool Conjure Fortune- make gold or other items out of mana
(9)Rune- mark a floor or wall with a spell that can be activated at any time
(10)Copy- reuse the last spell that was cast
(11)Arcane Disk- make a ring of arcane magic that can block attacks or be used for to deal average DMG
(12)Drain- touch a target and drain them of magic
(13)Dissolve- touch something and slowly make it loss HP as long as you can keep hold of it
(14)Misdirection- make any spell that is cast be aimed at you
(15)Charm- temporarily make a weaker target fall in love with you
(16)Act- make any target in range make the expression of any emotion, the target of this spell does not feel this emotion
(17)Levitate- move a target into the air, the speed the target can move at is not effected
(1 cool Sparkle- a weak spell that children learn, does very minor DMG
(19)Drain Mana- touch any living thing and absorb mana from it, then cast a random arcane spell
(20)Raining Hats- drop 10 hats down from the sky in random locations, each hat will cast a random spell when it lands(hats are neutral party)
(21)Multiroll- when a rendom spell is cast: pick one of 2 spells to cast
(22)Fez- cast a random spell out of a pool of 10(the spells in this pool are decided at character creation, and legendary spells cannot be selected)
(23)Burst- force any target in range to cast a spell
(24)
(100)Master Charm- make anyone you think of fall in love with you, this spell lasts for as long as you want it to  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

Haru Yates

You see what I'm trying to say, right?
Too generic=replaceable and boring. We want to feel like we are making a difference in the story. (Or at the very least, like we are useful, if not memorable.)

You make a difference in your story but your story is yours, you can make your character a hero by doing enough things that may kill you. And if you want special moments take something like tophat, no one will forget that time you cast a legendary spell to 1 shot a boss, also there is going to be 1000 shall I remind you, overlap is going to be rare

*cries* I want my character to be somebody who becomes strong, not some random joe-shmo who randomly one-shots a boss. There's something special in growing as a character. In being lovable. In learning and developing as a character. Your system needs to allow characters to grow stronger as they mature. Otherwise the game goes stale and the characters don't learn anything. He needs to make mistakes and learn from them, and he needs to practice his magic to get better and stronger. (Like any skill, you don't suddenly wake up and be good at it. It takes practice. Same goes for magic.) I know that that throws a wrench in game mechanics, but you can easily fix that by making some spells/abilities available only at certain levels.

Xa44

Haru Yates

Nope. I'm sure I can do things that you can't and I'm sure you can do things that I can't irl. (Or rather, we both can do whatever thing, but one of us will be better at doing it than the other person because of practice or natural talent. I can drive a car, but I can't drive like Mario Andretti.)

You can use spells better by being more creative with there uses and yeah I can't even drive, but there are minions of people who can and 1 of them as least is as good as you

Yeah, but tons of them are better at it than me too. Because they have more practice/experience driving than me.

Xa44

Haru Yates

Besides, there are spells in my list that aren't on yours (or they are different enough to be considered a different spell). Does my spell-set count as spell stacking? Do I have to try and simplify my spells or do you trust me to play this spell-casting system in a balanced way? (Because I don't know how else to work them out properly.) crying

I reworked all of them to fit I made a few changes to the list since the last one character creation is simple, and for the spells that are different they are really just better versions of previous spells. Change it to be consistent with everything if you want(and that would make a lot of things easier for planning) but do what you want

"Flood" is quite different from Plague.
Form of Shadow and Hidden form are similar enough to confuse me.
Shadow Cloak appears to have been derived from the same ability as Form of Shadow and Hidden Form, which is Shadow Meld. (no offense)
Darkened sky is a badass form of Shadow Manipulation. (Why might I need to block out the sun? possibly overkill, but you need light to cast shadows.)
There is no ability to extinguish light in the list aside from Darkened sky.
Conjure shadow is closer to Shadow Manipulation than Shadow Conjure (and because I don't see something that's quite the same as Tangible shadow, I can't say it exists either.)
Vampiric prison is a Shadow Capture "Prison".
Disarming Darkness is similar to Shadow Capture.

I'm just nit-picking. (Sorry.) *depressed* I really did put a lot of thought into Terrans abilities and how to keep them balanced, so this is a bit of a heavy blow.
The basic theory behind it is that you can't create a shadow if you don't learn to manipulate it first. You can't conjure a weapon out of shadow if you can't alter it's properties (make it tangible) first. You can't imprison somebody within your shadow if you can't hide within it yourself first. etc, etc. You see where I'm going?
That's why I said some spells acted like prerequisites. It forces us to think about our choices and what direction we want our character to grow in. I've got a plan here, ya know! Goals and stuff.  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

Would it help if I rewrote Terran's abilities so that they are easier to read instead of the paragraph style that they are currently written in? In case it make comparisons easier?

Or would there be any way to award exceptions on a case-by-case basis? (Because since my spells are layed out a little differently from your list, I need to figure out what counts as "two spells", unless one is able to be a "passive" spell...
crying crying crying *still cryin'*  

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

*cries* I want my character to be somebody who becomes strong, not some random joe-shmo who randomly one-shots a boss. There's something special in growing as a character. In being lovable. In learning and developing as a character. Your system needs to allow characters to grow stronger as they mature. Otherwise the game goes stale and the characters don't learn anything. He needs to make mistakes and learn from them, and he needs to practice his magic to get better and stronger. (Like any skill, you don't suddenly wake up and be good at it. It takes practice. Same goes for magic.) I know that that throws a wrench in game mechanics, but you can easily fix that by making some spells/abilities available only at certain levels.

ok so sorry if I sound mean but this is going to be a lot of reasons why your wrong
first off simple thing is that having more options makes a character stronger and having spells that are just oh I can do the thing I did before but better so having more options and on top of that having more options VS a thing makes you stronger than just better abilitys in lower number, a great example of this is zoodiacs from YuGiOh zoo is know as one of the strongest decks but most of there monster have effects that are worse versions of other cards but because you can summon a zoo on a zoo using no resources the deck became tier 0 and a lot off there cards will never be unban, it might not seem like it but more options are way better than just more DMG, and because there is no limit to how many times spells can be used there would be no reason to ever use lower level spells, and if you wanted unice spells that no one but you could ever use for all of history I would need to make a custom spell creator and I do not have the resources to do that and have there be enough option to last forever because this system needs to be future proofed witch takes so many levels of design that you wouldn't really understand, more on how just making abilitys stronger does not work for systems like this take a look at kingdom hearts 358/ 2 days, Urealms live(something I take a lot from), and kid icarus uprising. in kingdom hearts days spells come in 3 levels for this example I will look at the healing spells, the level 1 heal is instant and heals very little the 2nt level heals over time but heals a lot more, and the 3rd level heals health over time faster and more but only in a small area, this is great design because it really make you think about what you value do you wanna do fast heals witch works great for physical builds or the slower heals because it is better value and you get hit less because you fight at range, Urealms has no leveling whatsoever and what abilitys are obtained at character creation that is it a big part of that is because Urealms is biased on doing 1-offs and that is why I am adding leveling at all because this will be longer but the only "solution to this problem" would be by doing like Urealms and make what spells you can get random, uprising is all built around what weapons and powers you pick up by the end you are not that much stronger than you are at the start
look I get the power gamer "I wanna be the strongest" thing but that is not what this is about the whole system is built to make things feel like a world, A LOT of the content of this is side quests and for things in the future a good mind set to have when thinking about your character think more about who are they friends with, more on the place they work at, or where did they go during the war because your character lived that.

sorry this is a lot but no, actually because there is no spell levels it is more diversity because you can take more different spells earlier on  

[Haru Yates]

Xa44

Haru Yates

*cries* I want my character to be somebody who becomes strong, not some random joe-shmo who randomly one-shots a boss. There's something special in growing as a character. In being lovable. In learning and developing as a character. Your system needs to allow characters to grow stronger as they mature. Otherwise the game goes stale and the characters don't learn anything. He needs to make mistakes and learn from them, and he needs to practice his magic to get better and stronger. (Like any skill, you don't suddenly wake up and be good at it. It takes practice. Same goes for magic.) I know that that throws a wrench in game mechanics, but you can easily fix that by making some spells/abilities available only at certain levels.

ok so sorry if I sound mean but this is going to be a lot of reasons why your wrong
first off simple thing is that having more options makes a character stronger and having spells that are just oh I can do the thing I did before but better so having more options and on top of that having more options VS a thing makes you stronger than just better abilitys in lower number, a great example of this is zoodiacs from YuGiOh zoo is know as one of the strongest decks but most of there monster have effects that are worse versions of other cards but because you can summon a zoo on a zoo using no resources the deck became tier 0 and a lot off there cards will never be unban, it might not seem like it but more options are way better than just more DMG, and because there is no limit to how many times spells can be used there would be no reason to ever use lower level spells, and if you wanted unice spells that no one but you could ever use for all of history I would need to make a custom spell creator and I do not have the resources to do that and have there be enough option to last forever because this system needs to be future proofed witch takes so many levels of design that you wouldn't really understand, more on how just making abilitys stronger does not work for systems like this take a look at kingdom hearts 358/ 2 days, Urealms live(something I take a lot from), and kid icarus uprising. in kingdom hearts days spells come in 3 levels for this example I will look at the healing spells, the level 1 heal is instant and heals very little the 2nt level heals over time but heals a lot more, and the 3rd level heals health over time faster and more but only in a small area, this is great design because it really make you think about what you value do you wanna do fast heals witch works great for physical builds or the slower heals because it is better value and you get hit less because you fight at range, Urealms has no leveling whatsoever and what abilitys are obtained at character creation that is it a big part of that is because Urealms is biased on doing 1-offs and that is why I am adding leveling at all because this will be longer but the only "solution to this problem" would be by doing like Urealms and make what spells you can get random, uprising is all built around what weapons and powers you pick up by the end you are not that much stronger than you are at the start

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days uses panels (or slots) for equipping items, abilities and spells. Spells are used up like items (gone forever when it's used), and the stronger abilities aren't available at the beginning of the game. (Heck, you can't even use magic on your first mission). The number of combined items, spells, and abilities (including rings and things to boost stats) that you can bring with you on a mission is limited to the number of slots you've obtained, and you can't change it during a mission, so it's possible to run out of spells, forcing you to rely on melee abilities . On top of that, there are panels that have odd shapes and that link other panels to increase how many uses a spell has, or to double the effect of certain panels.
From what I've seen of URealms, they often set firm restrictions on what race, class, and build you can pick from at character creation, as well as outlining aspects of their backstory for the players. This is essentially giving the players pre-generated characters to choose from. This is because players are less likely to become emotionally attached to a pre-generated character, and it gives the game master more control over aspects the story. This also makes character death easier to deal with because, "Oops, so-and-so died. Can anybody revive him? No? Guess we're leaving him there then! Buh-bye so-and-so!" Same goes for the no-level thing. It's because there is no point leveling up if you are only playing a single session. Restrictions on character creation are normally set before character creation begins.
Sessions that do feature returning characters are normally written with those characters in mind, as they are expected to be there.
A for Kid Icarus Uprising, Pit's character is already fairly developed, but he's never boring. And he is unique: he's the only angel (aside from Dark Pit) who can't fly, and yet he doesn't ever let that stop him from doing what he believes is right. As for gameplay, the game does introduce mechanics to balance out gameplay (such as not being able to run indefinitely). Many abilities you obtain in Kid Icarus are unlocked through a treasure board, meaning you have to meet certain objectives to obtain them. Same goes for the ability to use certain weapons. In my Kid Icarus game, I still have yet to unlock the Palutena Bow because my level as a player is not yet high enough to meet the criteria to unlock it. Pit's strength relies on the difficulty you choose, and the level of the actual player rather than the character. Better weapons can also be fused, giving players a chance to make even more powerful weapons. Going back to the abilities, you can't equip whatever you like either. You need to fit blocks (representing the ability) into a grid in order to equip it. If you don't choose carefully or use the spaces properly, then you won't be able to make the most of your powers. And powers/abilities DO have levels in Kid icarus; sometimes they increase the number of uses, sometimes it's the range or duration, and sometimes it's the actual strength of the power. Better abilities often take up more space in the grid, so it's not always worth it to sacrifice another ability for it.
A better example of a game where the character's strength remains the same throughout the game may be the Legend of Zelda because power-ups tend to come from items and weapons, but even that game has a system that may be thought of as "leveling up" by awarding the player "pieces of heart" and "heart containers" to simulate Link's becoming tougher and stronger. The more hearts Link has, the more damage he can take and the longer he hold his own in a fight. (Even empty bottles can be thought of as a form of leveling up, as they allow the player to use more items without needing to replenish their supply, and larger wallets can allow a character to access other items that would have been beyond the player's grasp at an earlier point in the game. Currency in any game functions in much the same way unless you sit there farming it, and even that could be considered a form of a level up because you are gaining something through your effort.)
In the end, it all boils down to strategy. You aren't going to equip something you are never going to use, and you aren't going to waste time learning a healing spell if there's a cleric in your party with the same spell. (If there's no cleric, then you may want to learn a healing spell or 2.)

Xa44

look I get the power gamer "I wanna be the strongest" thing but that is not what this is about the whole system is built to make things feel like a world, A LOT of the content of this is side quests and for things in the future a good mind set to have when thinking about your character think more about who are they friends with, more on the place they work at, or where did they go during the war because your character lived that.

sorry this is a lot but no, actually because there is no spell levels it is more diversity because you can take more different spells earlier on

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I have no desire to be OP. [Actually, I've been running an ongoing OP-character RP for about 10+ years now and our characters are still developing and learning. The key to making it work is balance.]
I have absolutely no intention of making Terran the strongest character in the world, but I want him to develop as a character. (Character development.) Currently, your spell list isn't diverse enough to create a character that isn't a generic shadow user (no offense) and there's nothing memorable about something generic. Also, it is possible to have too many spells. If you have too many spells in your arsenal, players can forget or neglect abilities that they don't use often. It can also over-complicate a system by making some players sort though long lists of options just to remember what a certain spell does. (Like when you have 20 different ice cream flavours to choose from instead of 5. The choice is simple with only 5 unless you knew exactly what you wanted going into the ice cream shop in the first place.) Asside from that, most other RPs will expect you to explain why your darkness mage might know arcane spells or lightning spells or whatever other spells that are chosen outside your own element; Especially if it's going to be a believable campaign. (You said yourself that what happens in this RP may actually have happened or is happening in another universe, so things need to flow). In Terran's case, some arcane abilities can be explained by his being a half-vampire (creature of chaos).

Yes, Terran wants to get stronger, but only because he feels he needs to in order to destroy his father. Once that's done, he faces a new challenge: WTF to do with his life! (Sure, I said he'd been studying anatomy, but after this whole ordeal is over, he may have second thoughts. He may become depressed as he's lost his purpose. Or maybe he decides to remain by the sides of the friends/allies he's made! Or maybe the RP just ends along with the rest of the world.) In my experience, becoming powerful is not the end of the line for a character's development.
I feel like I'm rambling now, so let's get back to the problem at hand.

But let's try to fix this.
Here. This is what the spell set I've been arguing about looks like when broken down to it's barest bones:

Shadow Manipulation The ability to control & manipulate an existing shadow's size, shape, & length. Requires a light source & looses any effect in pitch-darkness. A room can not be made brighter by shrinking shadows.

****Shadow Manipulation will pretty much always be used at the same time as other spells, so it auto-fills 1 of 2 spells that can be used at the same time. (which is why I'm having this freak out). I'd always be in a position where I'd have to release one spell in order to use another. ... I don't care, it's worth it if this spell list works for you).

Darken Can be used to darken a room by extinguishing dim non-magical light sources, such as candle light or small torches.

Black-Out Extinguish light by blocking it out completely with a thick black shadow. This power may also extinguish some magical sources of light, & can resist light magic.

Tangible Shadow Ability to make shadows tangible & interact with them as if they are liquid matter. Shadow in this form can be thrown in the eyes of enemies to blind them, or used to choke or "flood" an enemy.***

***There! I combined 'flood' and 'Tangible shadow' for simplicity. Also Note that flood's flavor text looks a little something like this:
"Darkness oozes from the enemy's every orifice as his bloated corpse fails to contain it."
(I said it was gruesome, didn't I?)

Shadow Meld The ability to "cloak" or conceal oneself-or objects-in shadow by wrapping the shadows around him, or by sinking into the shadow as if it were a deep puddle. Terran can see through these shadows, but he can be found if he is stumbled over or bumped into (if he is not inside the shadow), or if the shadows are repelled or extinguished by a source of light.

Traverse Shadow Ability to move within shadows. Terran moves through shadows at a walking speed without being seen, or at a running speed while risking notice [like seeing movement out the corner of your eye]. Shadows must be connected to travel through.

Shadow Conjure Ability to create/conjure tangible shadows out of thin air. (See tangible shadow).

Wormhole Travel through shadows at any pace without penalty & use two connected shadows as if they were portals.

Shadowborn Temporarily become intangible.

Bind Ability to immobilize/bind or hold 1 target you can see through it's shadow. The strength of this ability relies on the caster's physical strength to hold a target. Caster's shadow must be connected to the target's shadow.

Shadow Capture Ability to move/manipulate 1 target you can see through their shadow. Relies on caster's magic to hold a target. Caster's shadow must be connected to the target's shadow. This ability is most effective when the target stands directly in the caster's shadow.

Shadow Prison Draw a target into the caster's shadow & entrap them in darkness. The prison is considered the caster's domain, and he may enter this domain to confront a captured target.**
**If this spell can be countered or broken, it may cause damage to the caster.

Consumption Draw energy from a target trapped within Shadow Prison. Causes necrotic damage & heals caster by consuming the energy of the prisoner.*
*If this spell can be countered or broken, it may cause damage to the caster.

Multi-Capture Use Bind on multiple targets at a time.(Max targets TBD.) Requires concentration/focus to maintain.

Shadow Conjure Conjure solid spear-like objects of shadow. These solid spikes are generally created in groups (multiples of about 4-7 at once), & are launched at a target as projectiles.

Conjure Blades Conjure swords of shadow. Functions like Shadow Conjure, but swords are stronger & more durable.

Obsidian Blade Conjure a Shadow blade/sword to use as a weapon in battle. The caster can change the blade from solid to shadow & back at will. (Or the blade may be replaced by a newly conjured blade instead).


Do the spells work better when I lay them out like this? (I'll have to fix the order for the sake of what happens when as he levels up...)
And do they meet your criteria for creating spells?
Placing restrictions on when a spell can and can't be used can give you better control over the game mechanics and prevent people from using a spell in a way that is unintended. If you need to place restrictions on how often some of my spells can be used (or for how long at a time), then let me know.  

[Xa44]

Haru Yates

Xa44

Haru Yates

*cries* I want my character to be somebody who becomes strong, not some random joe-shmo who randomly one-shots a boss. There's something special in growing as a character. In being lovable. In learning and developing as a character. Your system needs to allow characters to grow stronger as they mature. Otherwise the game goes stale and the characters don't learn anything. He needs to make mistakes and learn from them, and he needs to practice his magic to get better and stronger. (Like any skill, you don't suddenly wake up and be good at it. It takes practice. Same goes for magic.) I know that that throws a wrench in game mechanics, but you can easily fix that by making some spells/abilities available only at certain levels.

ok so sorry if I sound mean but this is going to be a lot of reasons why your wrong
first off simple thing is that having more options makes a character stronger and having spells that are just oh I can do the thing I did before but better so having more options and on top of that having more options VS a thing makes you stronger than just better abilitys in lower number, a great example of this is zoodiacs from YuGiOh zoo is know as one of the strongest decks but most of there monster have effects that are worse versions of other cards but because you can summon a zoo on a zoo using no resources the deck became tier 0 and a lot off there cards will never be unban, it might not seem like it but more options are way better than just more DMG, and because there is no limit to how many times spells can be used there would be no reason to ever use lower level spells, and if you wanted unice spells that no one but you could ever use for all of history I would need to make a custom spell creator and I do not have the resources to do that and have there be enough option to last forever because this system needs to be future proofed witch takes so many levels of design that you wouldn't really understand, more on how just making abilitys stronger does not work for systems like this take a look at kingdom hearts 358/ 2 days, Urealms live(something I take a lot from), and kid icarus uprising. in kingdom hearts days spells come in 3 levels for this example I will look at the healing spells, the level 1 heal is instant and heals very little the 2nt level heals over time but heals a lot more, and the 3rd level heals health over time faster and more but only in a small area, this is great design because it really make you think about what you value do you wanna do fast heals witch works great for physical builds or the slower heals because it is better value and you get hit less because you fight at range, Urealms has no leveling whatsoever and what abilitys are obtained at character creation that is it a big part of that is because Urealms is biased on doing 1-offs and that is why I am adding leveling at all because this will be longer but the only "solution to this problem" would be by doing like Urealms and make what spells you can get random, uprising is all built around what weapons and powers you pick up by the end you are not that much stronger than you are at the start

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days uses panels (or slots) for equipping items, abilities and spells. Spells are used up like items (gone forever when it's used), and the stronger abilities aren't available at the beginning of the game. (Heck, you can't even use magic on your first mission). The number of combined items, spells, and abilities (including rings and things to boost stats) that you can bring with you on a mission is limited to the number of slots you've obtained, and you can't change it during a mission, so it's possible to run out of spells, forcing you to rely on melee abilities . On top of that, there are panels that have odd shapes and that link other panels to increase how many uses a spell has, or to double the effect of certain panels.
From what I've seen of URealms, they often set firm restrictions on what race, class, and build you can pick from at character creation, as well as outlining aspects of their backstory for the players. This is essentially giving the players pre-generated characters to choose from. This is because players are less likely to become emotionally attached to a pre-generated character, and it gives the game master more control over aspects the story. This also makes character death easier to deal with because, "Oops, so-and-so died. Can anybody revive him? No? Guess we're leaving him there then! Buh-bye so-and-so!" Same goes for the no-level thing. It's because there is no point leveling up if you are only playing a single session. Restrictions on character creation are normally set before character creation begins.
Sessions that do feature returning characters are normally written with those characters in mind, as they are expected to be there.
A for Kid Icarus Uprising, Pit's character is already fairly developed, but he's never boring. And he is unique: he's the only angel (aside from Dark Pit) who can't fly, and yet he doesn't ever let that stop him from doing what he believes is right. As for gameplay, the game does introduce mechanics to balance out gameplay (such as not being able to run indefinitely). Many abilities you obtain in Kid Icarus are unlocked through a treasure board, meaning you have to meet certain objectives to obtain them. Same goes for the ability to use certain weapons. In my Kid Icarus game, I still have yet to unlock the Palutena Bow because my level as a player is not yet high enough to meet the criteria to unlock it. Pit's strength relies on the difficulty you choose, and the level of the actual player rather than the character. Better weapons can also be fused, giving players a chance to make even more powerful weapons. Going back to the abilities, you can't equip whatever you like either. You need to fit blocks (representing the ability) into a grid in order to equip it. If you don't choose carefully or use the spaces properly, then you won't be able to make the most of your powers. And powers/abilities DO have levels in Kid icarus; sometimes they increase the number of uses, sometimes it's the range or duration, and sometimes it's the actual strength of the power. Better abilities often take up more space in the grid, so it's not always worth it to sacrifice another ability for it.
A better example of a game where the character's strength remains the same throughout the game may be the Legend of Zelda because power-ups tend to come from items and weapons, but even that game has a system that may be thought of as "leveling up" by awarding the player "pieces of heart" and "heart containers" to simulate Link's becoming tougher and stronger. The more hearts Link has, the more damage he can take and the longer he hold his own in a fight. (Even empty bottles can be thought of as a form of leveling up, as they allow the player to use more items without needing to replenish their supply, and larger wallets can allow a character to access other items that would have been beyond the player's grasp at an earlier point in the game. Currency in any game functions in much the same way unless you sit there farming it, and even that could be considered a form of a level up because you are gaining something through your effort.)
In the end, it all boils down to strategy. You aren't going to equip something you are never going to use, and you aren't going to waste time learning a healing spell if there's a cleric in your party with the same spell. (If there's no cleric, then you may want to learn a healing spell or 2.)

Xa44

look I get the power gamer "I wanna be the strongest" thing but that is not what this is about the whole system is built to make things feel like a world, A LOT of the content of this is side quests and for things in the future a good mind set to have when thinking about your character think more about who are they friends with, more on the place they work at, or where did they go during the war because your character lived that.

sorry this is a lot but no, actually because there is no spell levels it is more diversity because you can take more different spells earlier on

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I have no desire to be OP. [Actually, I've been running an ongoing OP-character RP for about 10+ years now and our characters are still developing and learning. The key to making it work is balance.]
I have absolutely no intention of making Terran the strongest character in the world, but I want him to develop as a character. (Character development.) Currently, your spell list isn't diverse enough to create a character that isn't a generic shadow user (no offense) and there's nothing memorable about something generic. Also, it is possible to have too many spells. If you have too many spells in your arsenal, players can forget or neglect abilities that they don't use often. It can also over-complicate a system by making some players sort though long lists of options just to remember what a certain spell does. (Like when you have 20 different ice cream flavours to choose from instead of 5. The choice is simple with only 5 unless you knew exactly what you wanted going into the ice cream shop in the first place.) Asside from that, most other RPs will expect you to explain why your darkness mage might know arcane spells or lightning spells or whatever other spells that are chosen outside your own element; Especially if it's going to be a believable campaign. (You said yourself that what happens in this RP may actually have happened or is happening in another universe, so things need to flow). In Terran's case, some arcane abilities can be explained by his being a half-vampire (creature of chaos).

Yes, Terran wants to get stronger, but only because he feels he needs to in order to destroy his father. Once that's done, he faces a new challenge: WTF to do with his life! (Sure, I said he'd been studying anatomy, but after this whole ordeal is over, he may have second thoughts. He may become depressed as he's lost his purpose. Or maybe he decides to remain by the sides of the friends/allies he's made! Or maybe the RP just ends along with the rest of the world.) In my experience, becoming powerful is not the end of the line for a character's development.
I feel like I'm rambling now, so let's get back to the problem at hand.

But let's try to fix this.
Here. This is what the spell set I've been arguing about looks like when broken down to it's barest bones:

Shadow Manipulation The ability to control & manipulate an existing shadow's size, shape, & length. Requires a light source & looses any effect in pitch-darkness. A room can not be made brighter by shrinking shadows.

****Shadow Manipulation will pretty much always be used at the same time as other spells, so it auto-fills 1 of 2 spells that can be used at the same time. (which is why I'm having this freak out). I'd always be in a position where I'd have to release one spell in order to use another. ... I don't care, it's worth it if this spell list works for you).

Darken Can be used to darken a room by extinguishing dim non-magical light sources, such as candle light or small torches.

Black-Out Extinguish light by blocking it out completely with a thick black shadow. This power may also extinguish some magical sources of light, & can resist light magic.

Tangible Shadow Ability to make shadows tangible & interact with them as if they are liquid matter. Shadow in this form can be thrown in the eyes of enemies to blind them, or used to choke or "flood" an enemy.***

***There! I combined 'flood' and 'Tangible shadow' for simplicity. Also Note that flood's flavor text looks a little something like this:
"Darkness oozes from the enemy's every orifice as his bloated corpse fails to contain it."
(I said it was gruesome, didn't I?)

Shadow Meld The ability to "cloak" or conceal oneself-or objects-in shadow by wrapping the shadows around him, or by sinking into the shadow as if it were a deep puddle. Terran can see through these shadows, but he can be found if he is stumbled over or bumped into (if he is not inside the shadow), or if the shadows are repelled or extinguished by a source of light.

Traverse Shadow Ability to move within shadows. Terran moves through shadows at a walking speed without being seen, or at a running speed while risking notice [like seeing movement out the corner of your eye]. Shadows must be connected to travel through.

Shadow Conjure Ability to create/conjure tangible shadows out of thin air. (See tangible shadow).

Wormhole Travel through shadows at any pace without penalty & use two connected shadows as if they were portals.

Shadowborn Temporarily become intangible.

Bind Ability to immobilize/bind or hold 1 target you can see through it's shadow. The strength of this ability relies on the caster's physical strength to hold a target. Caster's shadow must be connected to the target's shadow.

Shadow Capture Ability to move/manipulate 1 target you can see through their shadow. Relies on caster's magic to hold a target. Caster's shadow must be connected to the target's shadow. This ability is most effective when the target stands directly in the caster's shadow.

Shadow Prison Draw a target into the caster's shadow & entrap them in darkness. The prison is considered the caster's domain, and he may enter this domain to confront a captured target.**
**If this spell can be countered or broken, it may cause damage to the caster.

Consumption Draw energy from a target trapped within Shadow Prison. Causes necrotic damage & heals caster by consuming the energy of the prisoner.*
*If this spell can be countered or broken, it may cause damage to the caster.

Multi-Capture Use Bind on multiple targets at a time.(Max targets TBD.) Requires concentration/focus to maintain.

Shadow Conjure Conjure solid spear-like objects of shadow. These solid spikes are generally created in groups (multiples of about 4-7 at once), & are launched at a target as projectiles.

Conjure Blades Conjure swords of shadow. Functions like Shadow Conjure, but swords are stronger & more durable.

Obsidian Blade Conjure a Shadow blade/sword to use as a weapon in battle. The caster can change the blade from solid to shadow & back at will. (Or the blade may be replaced by a newly conjured blade instead).


Do the spells work better when I lay them out like this? (I'll have to fix the order for the sake of what happens when as he levels up...)
And do they meet your criteria for creating spells?
Placing restrictions on when a spell can and can't be used can give you better control over the game mechanics and prevent people from using a spell in a way that is unintended. If you need to place restrictions on how often some of my spells can be used (or for how long at a time), then let me know.

ok just no to literally everything you say here you clearly know nothing about game design at all, ok, first going off the things actually related to game design your "cleric" example you fail to take in the fact that there is no stats so in a larger party or times when you have a big AOE attack go off you would want more heals and that wouldn't take away from what a person can do because that is one spell and the person who wanteed to play a healer would have more options(witch you underestimate how big that is) so they would still be stronger, and you point about forgetting old abilitys only proves my point of if you get stronger abilitys you toss out the old ones if every ability is equal then guess what you wouldn't wanna forget about them, also out of 1000 spells the chance of 2 people being similar is very low

most of the spells you list here are 1 too OP, or 2 don't actually have a effect that I can work into the system the way it is described

look and the bigger thing here is that you are just thinking about your stuff, I am trying to make this into a large TTRPG system that can be reused for years(and for manny people), if you are not ok with the way your character is going start over this system is not about getting stronger, I have none of the main story done if you do that it's fine, but I am not going to limit what people can do in the future because you want a strong character