The Vampire Counts

[Valmor von Carstein]

EliotJamesRookwood

Valmor von Carstein

Of course, you can overwhelm a Greater Daemon just by sheer weight of numbers by joining a Vampire with a large unit. Your troops may not have much combat status, but they'll get the bonus for outnumbering and for additional ranks, plus a standard if you have it. Plus, even a Greater Daemon will be hard-pressed to stop a Hand of Dust. As to dropping enhancing, isn't a Vampire Lord powerful enough as is? Not to mention, he can be equipped with additional weapons, or mounted. The thing about killing blow, however, is that your opponent has to hit the Vampire, and against a Lord, that is not exactly easy to do, especially since killing blows do not cancel Ward Saves. (What bugs me is that the rulebook I that have doesn't say whether the killing blow cancels regeneration or not, or would that be considered a save?)

Well, if we follow the rules for regeneration, unless it was a flaming killing blow, you would get to regenerate, except you would come back with only 1 wound, as killing blow gets rid of all your wounds. Essentially your head comes back, but it was lopped off just a minute ago, even if your undead, thats still going to hurt.

The rules specify that you can attempt to regenerate one wound once, but, even though the killing blow takes away all wounds, you can attempt to regenerate all of them still, as long as none of them were lost before you suffered a killing blow.  

[Valmor von Carstein]

EliotJamesRookwood

Valmor von Carstein

I'm curious; does anyone who plays VC armies realize how effective a Wraith with Obsidian Amulet is? What about having the Hell Banner as your Battle Standard, and putting it in a unit of 40 zombies, so that ALL those zombies cause terror?

Personally thats quite a lot of responsibility to put into the worst combatative fighters in the game. Get into combat with someone immune to physchology or just fear and terror, and that entire zombie unit isn't going to fare well, they have no armour, always strike last, crappy ws. That being said, to be effective you'd have to magic that unit like crazy, pump it full of more zombies, make them strike first with Hellish vigour.

However, the zombies are not alone. Don't forget that a character is in their midst, giving them the killing power they lack.  

[Van Evok]

Killing blow overrides regeneration, also elite troops wit kb usually have ws to get fair chance to hit the vampire (6 for wardancers, 5 for executioners, and wights can just take the banner of the barrows...). This way or another vampires aren't the powerhouses they used to be in editions up to 5, and need as much protection as they can get. As offense can be handled with great weapon or two hand weapons (unless Lahmian or Necrarch), ward save of some kind is very helpful. And Carstein Ring is best protection in the VC arsenal.  

[Reddemon]

Van Evok

Killing blow overrides regeneration, also elite troops wit kb usually have ws to get fair chance to hit the vampire (6 for wardancers, 5 for executioners, and wights can just take the banner of the barrows...). This way or another vampires aren't the powerhouses they used to be in editions up to 5, and need as much protection as they can get. As offense can be handled with great weapon or two hand weapons (unless Lahmian or Necrarch), ward save of some kind is very helpful. And Carstein Ring is best protection in the VC arsenal.

It might be, but if you take it, you get the most Vanillia Vampires around  

[Valmor von Carstein]

It all comes back to the General being so important to an VC army. He needs to stay alive under any circumstances, and a Blood Dragon or von Carstein can be equipped with other weapons (the primary reason I chose von Carsteins). If the Vampire boasts the greatest protection he can possibly get, plus a special weapon of any kind (Vampire Lord/Count with Great Weapon...OUCH!), not to mention keeping him in a unit (any unit) to absorb lost combat wounds, confer a rank bonus, and outnumber the enemy, your General is pretty much set to take on the best. If there is a flaw in this strategy, please point it out so that I can revise it.  

[Reddemon]

Valmor von Carstein

It all comes back to the General being so important to an VC army. He needs to stay alive under any circumstances, and a Blood Dragon or von Carstein can be equipped with other weapons (the primary reason I chose von Carsteins). If the Vampire boasts the greatest protection he can possibly get, plus a special weapon of any kind (Vampire Lord/Count with Great Weapon...OUCH!), not to mention keeping him in a unit (any unit) to absorb lost combat wounds, confer a rank bonus, and outnumber the enemy, your General is pretty much set to take on the best. If there is a flaw in this strategy, please point it out so that I can revise it.

Every plan is sound until it survives contact with the opponet  

[Valmor von Carstein]

As soon as I face an actual opponent, I'll see just how sound it is.  

[Clockwork_Creep]

Orcs and other horde armies can do the same thing. And a tricked out Black Orc Warboss in a Squad of Black Orcs and going to be painful. But they hurt anything, so no big deal, I suppose.  

[GamerChick16]

Info from Warseer; VC will be released after HE release in november.

Warseer has never been wrong for me.  

[Valmor von Carstein]

Good, that gives me plenty of time to save up for the new Army Book. In the meantime, the VC army has one advantage that no Orc army has; if your General is in the right kind of unit, they can just keep swelling the unit's numbers Magic Phase after Magic Phase (as long as you successfully cast, especially no miscasts xp ).  

[Reddemon]

Valmor von Carstein

Good, that gives me plenty of time to save up for the new Army Book. In the meantime, the VC army has one advantage that no Orc army has; if your General is in the right kind of unit, they can just keep swelling the unit's numbers Magic Phase after Magic Phase (as long as you successfully cast, especially no miscasts xp ).

Or dispelled, or scrolled, or other magic item  

[Valmor von Carstein]

That too. However, why not employ a Power Stone to try and avoid such things? (I know there's no way to stop a scroll, but they can only be used once. As long as you always take the extra magic level, there should be plenty of power left to cast another spell that could be just as useful.)  

[Drachyench]

Valmor von Carstein

That too. However, why not employ a Power Stone to try and avoid such things? (I know there's no way to stop a scroll, but they can only be used once. As long as you always take the extra magic level, there should be plenty of power left to cast another spell that could be just as useful.)

Where the cheesy 'dispell galore' armies come in.

It may be an advantage, yes, though how many do you usually summon in the game? Usually, not much more then (If as much) as you started with in the beginning of the game. Sure, that effectively halves your point cost, but considering a 5pt skeleton is still barely better then a 2 point Skaven Slave...

Best bet with VC? Don't swell your current units, make new ones to charge flanks.  

[Valmor von Carstein]

Making new units means more Victory Points for your opponent. As for the point costs, that makes no difference; the more models you can bring into the combat, the better chance you have of still outnumbering the enemy and having a rank bonus when combat resolution is taken (with an VC skeleton or zombie unit, you need all the bonuses you can get!) I like the idea myself of charging flanks and rears with new units (or blocking a powerful unit's charge with the speed-bump formation), but, unless the front is engaged by a large unit that will keep them tied up for an ungodly amount of time, the new unit will get ground to dust in one round of combat, or else by your opponent's own spells, charges, shooting, or some other method of laying waste to small units (don't forget, unless you have a Wizard with Vanhel's Danse Macabre within 18" of that new unit once its created, they will have to endure your opponent's turn before getting to charge the enemy for themselves). By the way, Skeletons are worth 8 points per model without equipment, not 5. Not much of a difference, but I don't think Clanrat Slaves can take Light Armour or Spears. Plus, I don't think the Slaves are Unbreakable and cause fear. (I could be wrong, since I'm just going by a reference sheet without the Skaven army book.)  

[Centigrade]

Valmor von Carstein

Making new units means more Victory Points for your opponent. As for the point costs, that makes no difference; the more models you can bring into the combat, the better chance you have of still outnumbering the enemy and having a rank bonus when combat resolution is taken (with an VC skeleton or zombie unit, you need all the bonuses you can get!) I like the idea myself of charging flanks and rears with new units (or blocking a powerful unit's charge with the speed-bump formation), but, unless the front is engaged by a large unit that will keep them tied up for an ungodly amount of time, the new unit will get ground to dust in one round of combat, or else by your opponent's own spells, charges, shooting, or some other method of laying waste to small units (don't forget, unless you have a Wizard with Vanhel's Danse Macabre within 18" of that new unit once its created, they will have to endure your opponent's turn before getting to charge the enemy for themselves). By the way, Skeletons are worth 8 points per model without equipment, not 5. Not much of a difference, but I don't think Clanrat Slaves can take Light Armour or Spears. Plus, I don't think the Slaves are Unbreakable and cause fear. (I could be wrong, since I'm just going by a reference sheet without the Skaven army book.)

You are more or less correct about the Clanrat Slaves. Except they can have shields and spears. Plus another reason that makes skeleton warriors superior to slaves is that slaves have absolutely terrible Ld of only 2. Which makes them so much unreliable.