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 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:34 am
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Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Everlasting Chaos Lethkhar Yep. The duel was about to end, and Grimgor had to choose that particular moment to butt in and save the Empire's Champion. The buffoon... Don't forget how Orc society works. They just keep growing until someone bigger than them smacks them down so badly it stunts their growth. Orcs fight for the love of fighting, but they still know a victory when they see it. By Orc standards Valten had been smashed so badly that there was no way he would be leading an army for a good long while, so he decided to issue his challenge with Archaon. He then smashes Archaon so badly that Archaon would be unlikely to forget the beating. I find it interesting though that you complain about Grimgor saving Valten while ignoring the fact that he spared Archaon. xp Yet another stupid thing in a long list of stupid things about Grimgor. He's a p***y. Not only did he interrupt the duel (Which Luthor Huss also did. At the very least, that guy should've died.), he didn't even finish the job. He sucks. And in the actual game, he sucks too. Yes, he 'sucks'. 7 S7 Attacks that insta-strike first and reroll failed to hits for the first round. Last edition, he had only 5 of said attacks, but added a free 2 to his sides combat res just by fighting. Give him a fully ranked unit, and before Grimgor even got his 5 S7 attacks, he'd be winning any combat from the front by 6-7 (Depending on if he outnumbered) points. Also, list plz of his stupid actions. I only recall letting Archaon live as being stupid, and that's because he wanted to fight him again at a latter time (In Orc society, if you beat da big boss, you USUALLY just royally pimpslap 'em so that they know not to even bother attempting a power struggle). Him turning back multiple times after LEAVING THE EMPIRE IN RUINS after continuing would force his army to freeze to death is not stupid. His Boyz losing to a Chaos Force that outnumbered them when a majority of his troops were GOBBOS is not stupid. Hell, he was holding off Crom, and only backed down because his army fleed and him alone between 3K+ Chaos warriors isn't the best of odds. He is damned smart for an Orc, has made few stupid errors, etc.Sound more like you just wish Archaon pimpslapped Grimgor. xp Which, in a straight up fight, he may infact have been able to in fluff (Probably, since he was about the Equal to Crom, and Crom got royally owned by Archaon). PS, ignore the middle unless you wanna read a rant. I haven't read the new Greenskins' rules. But I DO know that whenever I fought Grimgor (In the old rules) he was royally pwned. Every. Single. Time. He was NEVER worth his point value. Not ONCE. And personally, I don't like Archaon. I don't really know why. I just don't like the character. I don't give a s**t if he dies. I just think the whole scene was poorly written. The Swords of Chaos should've been able to hold off the 'Ard Boyz long enough for Archaon to finish off whatshisface. They just didn't want to lose any of their characters, so they spared everyone by making Grimgor into a god-like p***y. Meh, just my opinion. And yes, Grimgor may be intelligent. But put it into perspective: He's still an orc.
Meh, Orcs are the only below Chaos and Ogres in terms of strength for their basic soldiers. They also, next to Chaos, have done the most damage to the Empire.
New greenskin rules drop Grimgors +2 free combat Res, and give him two more attacks (Making him a WS8 7 S7 Attacks with Reroll failed to hits in the first round and always striking first).
What did you face him with, and was his user an idiot? If you take grimgor with his 9 base bodyguard, IMO you should be shot in the foot. He is a BEAST when give full bodyguard, and he SHOULD kill a good deal of the opponnets troops before they can even attack (Unless he forgot Hatred, Strikes First, and S7). With 3's to hit most basic troops, 2's to wound, and a Minus 4 to all saving throws, he should on average reduce quite the number of attacks against his unit.
You defeat Grimgor by making sure you never have your basic troops engage him in combat. Same goes true for the new rules. You DON'T want those 7 Attacks coming in before you even strike, or, in the old rules, that free +2 to the units combat res.
Still, if you flank charge Grimgor, or rearcharge, he goes down, HARD. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:24 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Everlasting Chaos Don't forget how Orc society works. They just keep growing until someone bigger than them smacks them down so badly it stunts their growth. Orcs fight for the love of fighting, but they still know a victory when they see it. By Orc standards Valten had been smashed so badly that there was no way he would be leading an army for a good long while, so he decided to issue his challenge with Archaon. He then smashes Archaon so badly that Archaon would be unlikely to forget the beating. I find it interesting though that you complain about Grimgor saving Valten while ignoring the fact that he spared Archaon. xp Yet another stupid thing in a long list of stupid things about Grimgor. He's a p***y. Not only did he interrupt the duel (Which Luthor Huss also did. At the very least, that guy should've died.), he didn't even finish the job. He sucks. And in the actual game, he sucks too. Yes, he 'sucks'. 7 S7 Attacks that insta-strike first and reroll failed to hits for the first round. Last edition, he had only 5 of said attacks, but added a free 2 to his sides combat res just by fighting. Give him a fully ranked unit, and before Grimgor even got his 5 S7 attacks, he'd be winning any combat from the front by 6-7 (Depending on if he outnumbered) points. Also, list plz of his stupid actions. I only recall letting Archaon live as being stupid, and that's because he wanted to fight him again at a latter time (In Orc society, if you beat da big boss, you USUALLY just royally pimpslap 'em so that they know not to even bother attempting a power struggle). Him turning back multiple times after LEAVING THE EMPIRE IN RUINS after continuing would force his army to freeze to death is not stupid. His Boyz losing to a Chaos Force that outnumbered them when a majority of his troops were GOBBOS is not stupid. Hell, he was holding off Crom, and only backed down because his army fleed and him alone between 3K+ Chaos warriors isn't the best of odds. He is damned smart for an Orc, has made few stupid errors, etc.Sound more like you just wish Archaon pimpslapped Grimgor. xp Which, in a straight up fight, he may infact have been able to in fluff (Probably, since he was about the Equal to Crom, and Crom got royally owned by Archaon). PS, ignore the middle unless you wanna read a rant. I haven't read the new Greenskins' rules. But I DO know that whenever I fought Grimgor (In the old rules) he was royally pwned. Every. Single. Time. He was NEVER worth his point value. Not ONCE. And personally, I don't like Archaon. I don't really know why. I just don't like the character. I don't give a s**t if he dies. I just think the whole scene was poorly written. The Swords of Chaos should've been able to hold off the 'Ard Boyz long enough for Archaon to finish off whatshisface. They just didn't want to lose any of their characters, so they spared everyone by making Grimgor into a god-like p***y. Meh, just my opinion. And yes, Grimgor may be intelligent. But put it into perspective: He's still an orc. Meh, Orcs are the only below Chaos and Ogres in terms of strength for their basic soldiers. They also, next to Chaos, have done the most damage to the Empire. New greenskin rules drop Grimgors +2 free combat Res, and give him two more attacks (Making him a WS8 7 S7 Attacks with Reroll failed to hits in the first round and always striking first). What did you face him with, and was his user an idiot? If you take grimgor with his 9 base bodyguard, IMO you should be shot in the foot. He is a BEAST when give full bodyguard, and he SHOULD kill a good deal of the opponnets troops before they can even attack (Unless he forgot Hatred, Strikes First, and S7). With 3's to hit most basic troops, 2's to wound, and a Minus 4 to all saving throws, he should on average reduce quite the number of attacks against his unit.
I think he was kinda stupid.
Accepting a duel from a Bloodthrister is usually considered a form of shooting yourself in the foot.
Quote: You defeat Grimgor by making sure you never have your basic troops engage him in combat. Same goes true for the new rules. You DON'T want those 7 Attacks coming in before you even strike, or, in the old rules, that free +2 to the units combat res. Still, if you flank charge Grimgor, or rearcharge, he goes down, HARD.
I usually flanked him with a unit of Chaos Knights if I could. 3nodding |
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:01 pm
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Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Yet another stupid thing in a long list of stupid things about Grimgor. He's a p***y. Not only did he interrupt the duel (Which Luthor Huss also did. At the very least, that guy should've died.), he didn't even finish the job. He sucks. And in the actual game, he sucks too. Yes, he 'sucks'. 7 S7 Attacks that insta-strike first and reroll failed to hits for the first round. Last edition, he had only 5 of said attacks, but added a free 2 to his sides combat res just by fighting. Give him a fully ranked unit, and before Grimgor even got his 5 S7 attacks, he'd be winning any combat from the front by 6-7 (Depending on if he outnumbered) points. Also, list plz of his stupid actions. I only recall letting Archaon live as being stupid, and that's because he wanted to fight him again at a latter time (In Orc society, if you beat da big boss, you USUALLY just royally pimpslap 'em so that they know not to even bother attempting a power struggle). Him turning back multiple times after LEAVING THE EMPIRE IN RUINS after continuing would force his army to freeze to death is not stupid. His Boyz losing to a Chaos Force that outnumbered them when a majority of his troops were GOBBOS is not stupid. Hell, he was holding off Crom, and only backed down because his army fleed and him alone between 3K+ Chaos warriors isn't the best of odds. He is damned smart for an Orc, has made few stupid errors, etc.Sound more like you just wish Archaon pimpslapped Grimgor. xp Which, in a straight up fight, he may infact have been able to in fluff (Probably, since he was about the Equal to Crom, and Crom got royally owned by Archaon). PS, ignore the middle unless you wanna read a rant. I haven't read the new Greenskins' rules. But I DO know that whenever I fought Grimgor (In the old rules) he was royally pwned. Every. Single. Time. He was NEVER worth his point value. Not ONCE. And personally, I don't like Archaon. I don't really know why. I just don't like the character. I don't give a s**t if he dies. I just think the whole scene was poorly written. The Swords of Chaos should've been able to hold off the 'Ard Boyz long enough for Archaon to finish off whatshisface. They just didn't want to lose any of their characters, so they spared everyone by making Grimgor into a god-like p***y. Meh, just my opinion. And yes, Grimgor may be intelligent. But put it into perspective: He's still an orc. Meh, Orcs are the only below Chaos and Ogres in terms of strength for their basic soldiers. They also, next to Chaos, have done the most damage to the Empire. New greenskin rules drop Grimgors +2 free combat Res, and give him two more attacks (Making him a WS8 7 S7 Attacks with Reroll failed to hits in the first round and always striking first). What did you face him with, and was his user an idiot? If you take grimgor with his 9 base bodyguard, IMO you should be shot in the foot. He is a BEAST when give full bodyguard, and he SHOULD kill a good deal of the opponnets troops before they can even attack (Unless he forgot Hatred, Strikes First, and S7). With 3's to hit most basic troops, 2's to wound, and a Minus 4 to all saving throws, he should on average reduce quite the number of attacks against his unit. I think he was kinda stupid. Accepting a duel from a Bloodthrister is usually considered a form of shooting yourself in the foot. Quote: You defeat Grimgor by making sure you never have your basic troops engage him in combat. Same goes true for the new rules. You DON'T want those 7 Attacks coming in before you even strike, or, in the old rules, that free +2 to the units combat res. Still, if you flank charge Grimgor, or rearcharge, he goes down, HARD. I usually flanked him with a unit of Chaos Knights if I could. 3nodding
He'd need to hit and wound with all 7 attacks to kill it, I think. That WAS a stupid act.
Still, most characters lose to a Bloodthirster, simply due to killing blow. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:10 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Yes, he 'sucks'. 7 S7 Attacks that insta-strike first and reroll failed to hits for the first round. Last edition, he had only 5 of said attacks, but added a free 2 to his sides combat res just by fighting. Give him a fully ranked unit, and before Grimgor even got his 5 S7 attacks, he'd be winning any combat from the front by 6-7 (Depending on if he outnumbered) points. Also, list plz of his stupid actions. I only recall letting Archaon live as being stupid, and that's because he wanted to fight him again at a latter time (In Orc society, if you beat da big boss, you USUALLY just royally pimpslap 'em so that they know not to even bother attempting a power struggle). Him turning back multiple times after LEAVING THE EMPIRE IN RUINS after continuing would force his army to freeze to death is not stupid. His Boyz losing to a Chaos Force that outnumbered them when a majority of his troops were GOBBOS is not stupid. Hell, he was holding off Crom, and only backed down because his army fleed and him alone between 3K+ Chaos warriors isn't the best of odds. He is damned smart for an Orc, has made few stupid errors, etc.Sound more like you just wish Archaon pimpslapped Grimgor. xp Which, in a straight up fight, he may infact have been able to in fluff (Probably, since he was about the Equal to Crom, and Crom got royally owned by Archaon). PS, ignore the middle unless you wanna read a rant. I haven't read the new Greenskins' rules. But I DO know that whenever I fought Grimgor (In the old rules) he was royally pwned. Every. Single. Time. He was NEVER worth his point value. Not ONCE. And personally, I don't like Archaon. I don't really know why. I just don't like the character. I don't give a s**t if he dies. I just think the whole scene was poorly written. The Swords of Chaos should've been able to hold off the 'Ard Boyz long enough for Archaon to finish off whatshisface. They just didn't want to lose any of their characters, so they spared everyone by making Grimgor into a god-like p***y. Meh, just my opinion. And yes, Grimgor may be intelligent. But put it into perspective: He's still an orc. Meh, Orcs are the only below Chaos and Ogres in terms of strength for their basic soldiers. They also, next to Chaos, have done the most damage to the Empire. New greenskin rules drop Grimgors +2 free combat Res, and give him two more attacks (Making him a WS8 7 S7 Attacks with Reroll failed to hits in the first round and always striking first). What did you face him with, and was his user an idiot? If you take grimgor with his 9 base bodyguard, IMO you should be shot in the foot. He is a BEAST when give full bodyguard, and he SHOULD kill a good deal of the opponnets troops before they can even attack (Unless he forgot Hatred, Strikes First, and S7). With 3's to hit most basic troops, 2's to wound, and a Minus 4 to all saving throws, he should on average reduce quite the number of attacks against his unit. I think he was kinda stupid. Accepting a duel from a Bloodthrister is usually considered a form of shooting yourself in the foot. Quote: You defeat Grimgor by making sure you never have your basic troops engage him in combat. Same goes true for the new rules. You DON'T want those 7 Attacks coming in before you even strike, or, in the old rules, that free +2 to the units combat res. Still, if you flank charge Grimgor, or rearcharge, he goes down, HARD. I usually flanked him with a unit of Chaos Knights if I could. 3nodding He'd need to hit and wound with all 7 attacks to kill it, I think. That WAS a stupid act. Still, most characters lose to a Bloodthirster, simply due to killing blow.
I fought a Bloodthrister once with Archaon, and I killed losing only 1 wound due to the Slayer of Kings negative effect. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:25 pm
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:48 am
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Daemon_King Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar I haven't read the new Greenskins' rules. But I DO know that whenever I fought Grimgor (In the old rules) he was royally pwned. Every. Single. Time. He was NEVER worth his point value. Not ONCE. And personally, I don't like Archaon. I don't really know why. I just don't like the character. I don't give a s**t if he dies. I just think the whole scene was poorly written. The Swords of Chaos should've been able to hold off the 'Ard Boyz long enough for Archaon to finish off whatshisface. They just didn't want to lose any of their characters, so they spared everyone by making Grimgor into a god-like p***y. Meh, just my opinion. And yes, Grimgor may be intelligent. But put it into perspective: He's still an orc. Meh, Orcs are the only below Chaos and Ogres in terms of strength for their basic soldiers. They also, next to Chaos, have done the most damage to the Empire. New greenskin rules drop Grimgors +2 free combat Res, and give him two more attacks (Making him a WS8 7 S7 Attacks with Reroll failed to hits in the first round and always striking first). What did you face him with, and was his user an idiot? If you take grimgor with his 9 base bodyguard, IMO you should be shot in the foot. He is a BEAST when give full bodyguard, and he SHOULD kill a good deal of the opponnets troops before they can even attack (Unless he forgot Hatred, Strikes First, and S7). With 3's to hit most basic troops, 2's to wound, and a Minus 4 to all saving throws, he should on average reduce quite the number of attacks against his unit. I think he was kinda stupid. Accepting a duel from a Bloodthrister is usually considered a form of shooting yourself in the foot. Quote: You defeat Grimgor by making sure you never have your basic troops engage him in combat. Same goes true for the new rules. You DON'T want those 7 Attacks coming in before you even strike, or, in the old rules, that free +2 to the units combat res. Still, if you flank charge Grimgor, or rearcharge, he goes down, HARD. I usually flanked him with a unit of Chaos Knights if I could. 3nodding He'd need to hit and wound with all 7 attacks to kill it, I think. That WAS a stupid act. Still, most characters lose to a Bloodthirster, simply due to killing blow. I fought a Bloodthrister once with Archaon, and I killed losing only 1 wound due to the Slayer of Kings negative effect.
Yeah, that's sorta why Archaon costs 855 points and the Bloodthirster only costs 650... |
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:21 am
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EsgarBlackpoxs Drachyench_The_Eternal You defeat Grimgor by making sure you never have your basic troops engage him in combat. Same goes true for the new rules. You DON'T want those 7 Attacks coming in before you even strike, or, in the old rules, that free +2 to the units combat res. Or, if you play chaos, get a Chaos lord with a chaos rune shield, and rending sword, on a chos steed. My friend and I did a one-on-one battle, and without all his uber-magic, he isn't that hard to kill (especially when you cause 1D3 wounds razz )
As a rule, you should rarely challenge Chaos. With new Grimgor rules, just refuse with your unit Champion, and have Grimgor start carving up the basic Knights.
For Empire, if Van Horstmans works, use it.
If you are A Orc player and you have the Amulet of Protectiness (You get the enemies Armor and Ward save), assuming it works too.
Only Challenge Chaos if You're on a Monstrous Mount and they aren't, or if you are just about Guarentied to win. Chaos is a BAD idea to challenge. At least with things like Elves, Orcs, Ogres, Etc, not much people take magic weapon-negating items. Chaos also has beasts of Statlines. WS8 S5 T5, with the ability to increase those even higher up, along with I8... |
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:17 am
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:25 pm
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Hellwolve My apolagies for disrupting the current discussion about Grimgor and who can defeat him how, but I've got an question for fellow O&G players. I like to kit my general for two things: sticking around and dishing out as much hurt as possible. Just like a lot of other people, I suppose...Anyways, with the previous armybook, I liked the Dead 'Ard armour, for the protection it gave my general. In the new book, that armour is gone, just like a lot of other armour, unfortunatly...The question is: how would you kit out a Black Orc hero/lord to lead the army into the thick of it? Personally, I'm thinking one of two things: the Amulet of Protectiness or putting him on a boar.
Well, with a Boar, Heavy Armor, shield, and Battle Axe of the Last Waaagh!, simply toss him in a unit (Lowers his move a good bit, I know, but still), you can get 7 S8 attacks, I believe, plus 1 S5 from the boar, and maybe a good bunch more from the Boyz if they're Big 'Uns. |
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:42 am
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:01 pm
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:25 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:55 am
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:34 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Hellwolve That's indeed an option, but IIRC the enemy can shoot him that way because he's bigger/higher than the unit; the reason why I'm still thinking about it. Or did I mix up some rule somewhere...? Also, that Battle Axe is indeed cool; I'm considering it for his weapon. I think they actually fixed that rule, and if you have a Unit Strength of 5 or higher, he can't be shot (Unless with a template weapon).
I think that you just can't pick him off specifically, but he doesn't benefit from Look Out Sir because he's bigger. |
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