The Vampire Counts

[Van Evok]

Well, 4+ ward isn't something infallible, though with bit of luck such wraith is very annoying... though cursed book fits better imho, as it allows zombies to be hit on 4+, major improvement. As for terrorizing enemy with zombies, it is really needed only if you face fear-causing enemies to made them auto-break.  

[Valmor von Carstein]

Please, excuse me. The reason I chose VC is not just because I like the living dead, but fear is one of my favorite tactics. I still think any unit in large numbers that causes terror is worth it. Plus, there was a statement earlier on that the Carstein Ring wasn't all that great. I must disagree; since the General of a VC army is very important, why not give him the best protection you can afford?  

[Drachyench]

Valmor von Carstein

Please, excuse me. The reason I chose VC is not just because I like the living dead, but fear is one of my favorite tactics. I still think any unit in large numbers that causes terror is worth it. Plus, there was a statement earlier on that the Carstein Ring wasn't all that great. I must disagree; since the General of a VC army is very important, why not give him the best protection you can afford?

Because, for all that protection, you just dropped any spell casting, combat enhancing, or bloodline skills. It does make you endurant as sin, but say you face something tougher then Rank and file, like, say, a Greater Demon?

Plus, it grants no immunity to killing blow. Immunity to killing blow would, IMO, easily make it worth the cost.  

[Van Evok]

Well, to anyone his taste, but with reliance of VC on general, ounce of protection is worth pound of cure... other than Carstein ring, Vampire is left with 5+ ward (hardly sure save) or 4+ ward at the cost of stupidity... not very good if your general stops to ponder meaning of un-life in front of say, Empire gun line. I've found Vampire Lords to be tough customers overall, with 4 wounds and T5 it takes good magic weapon in skilled hands, or direct warmachine shot to send them into overdue death. Troops with killing blow like Executioners, Wardancers or ironically Wights are something that makes Vampire shudder...  

[Valmor von Carstein]

Of course, you can overwhelm a Greater Daemon just by sheer weight of numbers by joining a Vampire with a large unit. Your troops may not have much combat status, but they'll get the bonus for outnumbering and for additional ranks, plus a standard if you have it. Plus, even a Greater Daemon will be hard-pressed to stop a Hand of Dust. As to dropping enhancing, isn't a Vampire Lord powerful enough as is? Not to mention, he can be equipped with additional weapons, or mounted. The thing about killing blow, however, is that your opponent has to hit the Vampire, and against a Lord, that is not exactly easy to do, especially since killing blows do not cancel Ward Saves. (What bugs me is that the rulebook I that have doesn't say whether the killing blow cancels regeneration or not, or would that be considered a save?)  

[Reddemon]

Valmor von Carstein

Of course, you can overwhelm a Greater Daemon just by sheer weight of numbers by joining a Vampire with a large unit. Your troops may not have much combat status, but they'll get the bonus for outnumbering and for additional ranks, plus a standard if you have it. Plus, even a Greater Daemon will be hard-pressed to stop a Hand of Dust. As to dropping enhancing, isn't a Vampire Lord powerful enough as is? Not to mention, he can be equipped with additional weapons, or mounted. The thing about killing blow, however, is that your opponent has to hit the Vampire, and against a Lord, that is not exactly easy to do, especially since killing blows do not cancel Ward Saves. (What bugs me is that the rulebook I that have doesn't say whether the killing blow cancels regeneration or not, or would that be considered a save?)

Yes, you must always overwhelm opponets with thriller dancing zombies  

[Valmor von Carstein]

I would be very impressed if anyone could model a horde of zombies to look like they're dancing the Thriller, and, most importantly, have it be recognizable. That reminds me, I came up with a very unique idea for a Spirit Host; why not model it to look the Thirteen Ghosts?  

[Reddemon]

Valmor von Carstein

I would be very impressed if anyone could model a horde of zombies to look like they're dancing the Thriller, and, most importantly, have it be recognizable. That reminds me, I came up with a very unique idea for a Spirit Host; why not model it to look the Thirteen Ghosts?

Just abita twisting and weaponless arms. And have them point one way or another lol. The whole thirteen ghosts would be cool, but not all of them fit the whole Fanasty bill  

[Valmor von Carstein]

I don't think the zombie sprues have enough weaponless right arms for a full compliment of thriller-dancing zombies. Exactly, what do you mean by "the whole Fantasy bill"?  

[Reddemon]

Valmor von Carstein

I don't think the zombie sprues have enough weaponless right arms for a full compliment of thriller-dancing zombies. Exactly, what do you mean by "the whole Fantasy bill"?

Wasnt the last ghost the kids mother with the whole, high quality medical gear? Its even too good for Karl himself  

[Valmor von Carstein]

She wasn't the last ghost, she was the fifth. Besides, she was described as the mangled mother (or was it lover?). The medical stuff isn't required for the ghost to part of the Black Zodiac.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Valmor von Carstein

Of course, you can overwhelm a Greater Daemon just by sheer weight of numbers by joining a Vampire with a large unit. Your troops may not have much combat status, but they'll get the bonus for outnumbering and for additional ranks, plus a standard if you have it. Plus, even a Greater Daemon will be hard-pressed to stop a Hand of Dust. As to dropping enhancing, isn't a Vampire Lord powerful enough as is? Not to mention, he can be equipped with additional weapons, or mounted. The thing about killing blow, however, is that your opponent has to hit the Vampire, and against a Lord, that is not exactly easy to do, especially since killing blows do not cancel Ward Saves. (What bugs me is that the rulebook I that have doesn't say whether the killing blow cancels regeneration or not, or would that be considered a save?)

Well, if we follow the rules for regeneration, unless it was a flaming killing blow, you would get to regenerate, except you would come back with only 1 wound, as killing blow gets rid of all your wounds. Essentially your head comes back, but it was lopped off just a minute ago, even if your undead, thats still going to hurt.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Valmor von Carstein

I'm curious; does anyone who plays VC armies realize how effective a Wraith with Obsidian Amulet is? What about having the Hell Banner as your Battle Standard, and putting it in a unit of 40 zombies, so that ALL those zombies cause terror?

Personally thats quite a lot of responsibility to put into the worst combatative fighters in the game. Get into combat with someone immune to physchology or just fear and terror, and that entire zombie unit isn't going to fare well, they have no armour, always strike last, crappy ws. That being said, to be effective you'd have to magic that unit like crazy, pump it full of more zombies, make them strike first with Hellish vigour.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Valmor von Carstein

Please, excuse me. The reason I chose VC is not just because I like the living dead, but fear is one of my favorite tactics. I still think any unit in large numbers that causes terror is worth it. Plus, there was a statement earlier on that the Carstein Ring wasn't all that great. I must disagree; since the General of a VC army is very important, why not give him the best protection you can afford?

Because, for all that protection, you just dropped any spell casting, combat enhancing, or bloodline skills. It does make you endurant as sin, but say you face something tougher then Rank and file, like, say, a Greater Demon?

Plus, it grants no immunity to killing blow. Immunity to killing blow would, IMO, easily make it worth the cost.

Eh, you can still make a Vampire Lord a lvl.3 Wizard, thats pretty damn good, with the ward save and regeneration. Mount him on a Winged Nightmare, he's a mobile spellcaster who can match the daemon for speed, and selectively engage him.  

[Reddemon]

Valmor von Carstein

She wasn't the last ghost, she was the fifth. Besides, she was described as the mangled mother (or was it lover?). The medical stuff isn't required for the ghost to part of the Black Zodiac.

But it was there