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 Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:48 am
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Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Sorscha Kratikoff One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes That's because Grimgor sucks, and everyone knows it. Maybe they're preparing for a new storyline? It's a new edition, after all. Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks.
His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:04 pm
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Faeruithir88 Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Sorscha Kratikoff One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes That's because Grimgor sucks, and everyone knows it. Maybe they're preparing for a new storyline? It's a new edition, after all. Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks. His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won.
Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution? |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:33 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Faeruithir88 Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Sorscha Kratikoff One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes That's because Grimgor sucks, and everyone knows it. Maybe they're preparing for a new storyline? It's a new edition, after all. Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks. His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution?
Which leads to the whole event that happened making little sense, and was written poorly and half-assed. |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:05 pm
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Sorscha Kratikoff EliotJamesRookwood ATTENTION O & G PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING!!! I have read the new book, and Orcs and Goblins have been improved, you now have what is essentially a rune fang, Black Orcs, cost 13pts, but they get to choose each combat if they want to use two choppas, a shield, or a great weapon. Each combat. Orc Arrer Boyz went down to 6pts a model. The army list is in no way lesser, it is improved. I've got the new book, and I have to disagree. We get a couple more effective magic weapons, true. But I hope you don't like armor. You've got two selections outside the stuff in the "Common Magic Items" list, and neither of them gives you a better save than 5+. So, as I see it, magic items is a wash-- improved in some ways, but diminished in others. Black Orcs are probably better overall for the adjustments. But, you DO have to buy the shields (that wasn't really clear in what you said), and I'm still at a total loss for the changes to the Black Orc unit champion. 20 points for an extra attack and an extra point of WS? You don't even get the S bonus they got last edition-- and it's twice as much for the upgrade now. How about the Big'Uns upgrade? Twice as many points now for the same effect. Hardly an "improvement". Boar Boyz? 4 points more than they were last edition, for the exact same stat line. Again, I fail to see an improvement, especially in the case of Boar Boy Big'Uns. You'll be paying 3 points less for a Boar Boy Big'Un than you would be for a Chaos Knight, and I honestly don't think that Boar Boyz are anywhere near the same league as a Chaos Knight. Black Orc Big Bosses also got nerfed-- only S4 now, instead of S5. Only one Goblin Wolf Chariot per Special slot now. Fanatics are only Armor Piercing now, instead of ignoring armor saves (Why was this change necessary? It only helps Heavy Cav, and I don't think they were much in need of help against Orcs and Goblins.) Sorry if it sounds like I'm flaming you-- I'm not. But I do have to disagree wholeheartedly with your statement that, "The army list is in no way lesser, it is improved." I've listed more than a couple of ways in which the army list is lesser. Is it a TOTAL loss? I don't think so; but, I also think time (and other 7th ed. book releases) will be the ultimate judge of that. But I don't think there's a blanket improvement of the army by any stretch of the imagination. One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes
Lets look at this logically, Orcs shouldn't have to rely on armour, its not what they do, so what if you only have 2 types of armour, its not a big deal, a lot of armies have worse armour than that (wood elves, beastmen). More importantly, thats what happens when an army book updates, somethings get better, some get worse, its up to the player to increase his/her advantages, and decrease his/her disadvantages.
The Boars get pretty nasty on the charge with their special rules, and can do plenty of damage when necessary.
Black Orcs are better, and if you have problem with the new champion, don't waste points on him. They may have forced equipment, but they cost the same as an Ironbreaker, and have a lot of options available to them in combat offensively.
Though I miss the fanatics ultimate shower of death to calvary, it stands to reason, even if the goblin is drunk, its shouldn't be able to go through all the armour of a rider and steed, it might just go through easier.
As for characters, you can now have a Black Orc, and 3 other character choices, instead of 2 in a standard 2000pt army. Orc characters are still decent enough.
You misunderstand my use of 'improved', my apologies, I guess it would be more accurate to say 'balanced'.
I'll finish this with something that I've always quoted. "An army is only as good as the one leading it." |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:46 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Faeruithir88 Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Sorscha Kratikoff One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes That's because Grimgor sucks, and everyone knows it. Maybe they're preparing for a new storyline? It's a new edition, after all. Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks. His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution?
Yep. The duel was about to end, and Grimgor had to choose that particular moment to butt in and save the Empire's Champion. The buffoon... |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:21 pm
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:51 pm
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Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Faeruithir88 Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks. His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution? Yep. The duel was about to end, and Grimgor had to choose that particular moment to butt in and save the Empire's Champion. The buffoon...
Don't forget how Orc society works. They just keep growing until someone bigger than them smacks them down so badly it stunts their growth. Orcs fight for the love of fighting, but they still know a victory when they see it. By Orc standards Valten had been smashed so badly that there was no way he would be leading an army for a good long while, so he decided to issue his challenge with Archaon. He then smashes Archaon so badly that Archaon would be unlikely to forget the beating.
I find it interesting though that you complain about Grimgor saving Valten while ignoring the fact that he spared Archaon. xp |
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:38 pm
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Everlasting Chaos Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Faeruithir88 Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks. His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution? Yep. The duel was about to end, and Grimgor had to choose that particular moment to butt in and save the Empire's Champion. The buffoon... Don't forget how Orc society works. They just keep growing until someone bigger than them smacks them down so badly it stunts their growth. Orcs fight for the love of fighting, but they still know a victory when they see it. By Orc standards Valten had been smashed so badly that there was no way he would be leading an army for a good long while, so he decided to issue his challenge with Archaon. He then smashes Archaon so badly that Archaon would be unlikely to forget the beating. I find it interesting though that you complain about Grimgor saving Valten while ignoring the fact that he spared Archaon. xp
Yet another stupid thing in a long list of stupid things about Grimgor.
He's a p***y. Not only did he interrupt the duel (Which Luthor Huss also did. At the very least, that guy should've died.), he didn't even finish the job. He sucks.
And in the actual game, he sucks too. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:07 pm
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Lethkhar Everlasting Chaos Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Faeruithir88 His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution? Yep. The duel was about to end, and Grimgor had to choose that particular moment to butt in and save the Empire's Champion. The buffoon... Don't forget how Orc society works. They just keep growing until someone bigger than them smacks them down so badly it stunts their growth. Orcs fight for the love of fighting, but they still know a victory when they see it. By Orc standards Valten had been smashed so badly that there was no way he would be leading an army for a good long while, so he decided to issue his challenge with Archaon. He then smashes Archaon so badly that Archaon would be unlikely to forget the beating. I find it interesting though that you complain about Grimgor saving Valten while ignoring the fact that he spared Archaon. xp Yet another stupid thing in a long list of stupid things about Grimgor. He's a p***y. Not only did he interrupt the duel (Which Luthor Huss also did. At the very least, that guy should've died.), he didn't even finish the job. He sucks. And in the actual game, he sucks too.
Yes, he 'sucks'. 7 S7 Attacks that insta-strike first and reroll failed to hits for the first round. Last edition, he had only 5 of said attacks, but added a free 2 to his sides combat res just by fighting.
Give him a fully ranked unit, and before Grimgor even got his 5 S7 attacks, he'd be winning any combat from the front by 6-7 (Depending on if he outnumbered) points.
Also, list plz of his stupid actions. I only recall letting Archaon live as being stupid, and that's because he wanted to fight him again at a latter time (In Orc society, if you beat da big boss, you USUALLY just royally pimpslap 'em so that they know not to even bother attempting a power struggle). Him turning back multiple times after LEAVING THE EMPIRE IN RUINS after continuing would force his army to freeze to death is not stupid. His Boyz losing to a Chaos Force that outnumbered them when a majority of his troops were GOBBOS is not stupid. Hell, he was holding off Crom, and only backed down because his army fleed and him alone between 3K+ Chaos warriors isn't the best of odds. He is damned smart for an Orc, has made few stupid errors, etc.
Sound more like you just wish Archaon pimpslapped Grimgor. xp Which, in a straight up fight, he may infact have been able to in fluff (Probably, since he was about the Equal to Crom, and Crom got royally owned by Archaon). PS, ignore the middle unless you wanna read a rant. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:06 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:39 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:25 am
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:41 am
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:24 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:46 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Everlasting Chaos Lethkhar Drachyench_The_Eternal Faeruithir88 His sense of honour "sucks". He did what he had to to win, and thus, won. Also, how was he underhanded? It was proven Archaon had time to react (He did attempt to block Grimgors later moves), and he just plowed right through them. Also, I don't think about to kill a man lying on the ground near-unconscious with a gaping wound is considered a Duel. I think it's more of a, what is the word I'm looking for... Execution? Yep. The duel was about to end, and Grimgor had to choose that particular moment to butt in and save the Empire's Champion. The buffoon... Don't forget how Orc society works. They just keep growing until someone bigger than them smacks them down so badly it stunts their growth. Orcs fight for the love of fighting, but they still know a victory when they see it. By Orc standards Valten had been smashed so badly that there was no way he would be leading an army for a good long while, so he decided to issue his challenge with Archaon. He then smashes Archaon so badly that Archaon would be unlikely to forget the beating. I find it interesting though that you complain about Grimgor saving Valten while ignoring the fact that he spared Archaon. xp Yet another stupid thing in a long list of stupid things about Grimgor. He's a p***y. Not only did he interrupt the duel (Which Luthor Huss also did. At the very least, that guy should've died.), he didn't even finish the job. He sucks. And in the actual game, he sucks too. Yes, he 'sucks'. 7 S7 Attacks that insta-strike first and reroll failed to hits for the first round. Last edition, he had only 5 of said attacks, but added a free 2 to his sides combat res just by fighting. Give him a fully ranked unit, and before Grimgor even got his 5 S7 attacks, he'd be winning any combat from the front by 6-7 (Depending on if he outnumbered) points. Also, list plz of his stupid actions. I only recall letting Archaon live as being stupid, and that's because he wanted to fight him again at a latter time (In Orc society, if you beat da big boss, you USUALLY just royally pimpslap 'em so that they know not to even bother attempting a power struggle). Him turning back multiple times after LEAVING THE EMPIRE IN RUINS after continuing would force his army to freeze to death is not stupid. His Boyz losing to a Chaos Force that outnumbered them when a majority of his troops were GOBBOS is not stupid. Hell, he was holding off Crom, and only backed down because his army fleed and him alone between 3K+ Chaos warriors isn't the best of odds. He is damned smart for an Orc, has made few stupid errors, etc.Sound more like you just wish Archaon pimpslapped Grimgor. xp Which, in a straight up fight, he may infact have been able to in fluff (Probably, since he was about the Equal to Crom, and Crom got royally owned by Archaon). PS, ignore the middle unless you wanna read a rant.
I haven't read the new Greenskins' rules.
But I DO know that whenever I fought Grimgor (In the old rules) he was royally pwned. Every. Single. Time. He was NEVER worth his point value. Not ONCE.
And personally, I don't like Archaon. I don't really know why. I just don't like the character. I don't give a s**t if he dies. I just think the whole scene was poorly written. The Swords of Chaos should've been able to hold off the 'Ard Boyz long enough for Archaon to finish off whatshisface. They just didn't want to lose any of their characters, so they spared everyone by making Grimgor into a god-like p***y.
Meh, just my opinion.
And yes, Grimgor may be intelligent. But put it into perspective: He's still an orc. |
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