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 Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:10 pm
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EliotJamesRookwood Drachyench_The_Eternal lord_illpalazzo Withthte new rules, I am not going to stop playing orcs. I belive I will no longer use an Orc list. I think I'm going to use Night Goblins. I want my opponets to hate my magic weilding Gobbos. Your gobbo's no longer generate Dispel or Power Dice. You no longer get the Extra gobbo hero per 1K points now. Really now? That truly sucks. But I do have a suggestion for you Orc and Goblin players, use house rules. If you don't like what games-workshop is doing, make up your own rules, so you can give the army its balance, the people you play with should be cool with that.
Nah, I'll probably just stick with the old rules. Easier to go to a store and say "Can I play a game with last editions book" (Unlikely, I might add), then to say "Can I play with rules I made up?" |
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:44 am
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:31 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:53 am
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Drachyench_The_Eternal lord_illpalazzo Wait... There are NO goblin shamans anymore? We lost magic! Thats bullshit! No, goblin shamans still exist. Goblins just no longer generate extra dice. And Night Goblins must buy 'Shroom parts. EDIT: Almost forgot, Wurzagg pimpslaped a Beastlord in a challenge. XP
Even with the buying of shroom parts, they are cheaper than the old night gobbo shamans. |
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:22 pm
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:07 pm
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EliotJamesRookwood ATTENTION O & G PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING!!! I have read the new book, and Orcs and Goblins have been improved, you now have what is essentially a rune fang, Black Orcs, cost 13pts, but they get to choose each combat if they want to use two choppas, a shield, or a great weapon. Each combat. Orc Arrer Boyz went down to 6pts a model. The army list is in no way lesser, it is improved.
Yes, ebcause we really needed a Runefang. XP
I personally don't think that the extra equip for more pts is really that needed. If shields are standard, thank god. If not? 13pts for a unit I'll be using with the exact same equipment? Meh.
Arrer boys went down 1 point. Good, so the one unit that no Orc players use is cheaper. Hell, I own 35 Orc Archers, and I never use 'em unless I need filler. Sure, they're tougher then a human archer. That's where the advantages end. Still, at least now they'll be better meatshields. :3
And what about the All Goblin armies? They now have 50-100 points to add for each unit (Shields and Spear or just shields added), Gobbo's no longer generate Power or Dispel Dice(Infact, I think nothing generates Dispel now, only power dice), and they no longer get the additional sub-par hero for 1K Point.
I'll admit, Orcs got more bonus' then drawbacks, though you gotta admit goblin armies got shafted, and now you MUST have Orcs in your army to do better (Hell, Fanatics are no longer even Ignore Armor saves). |
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:26 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:12 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:32 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal EliotJamesRookwood ATTENTION O & G PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING!!! I have read the new book, and Orcs and Goblins have been improved, you now have what is essentially a rune fang, Black Orcs, cost 13pts, but they get to choose each combat if they want to use two choppas, a shield, or a great weapon. Each combat. Orc Arrer Boyz went down to 6pts a model. The army list is in no way lesser, it is improved. Yes, ebcause we really needed a Runefang. XP I personally don't think that the extra equip for more pts is really that needed. If shields are standard, thank god. If not? 13pts for a unit I'll be using with the exact same equipment? Meh. Arrer boys went down 1 point. Good, so the one unit that no Orc players use is cheaper. Hell, I own 35 Orc Archers, and I never use 'em unless I need filler. Sure, they're tougher then a human archer. That's where the advantages end. Still, at least now they'll be better meatshields. :3 And what about the All Goblin armies? They now have 50-100 points to add for each unit (Shields and Spear or just shields added), Gobbo's no longer generate Power or Dispel Dice(Infact, I think nothing generates Dispel now, only power dice), and they no longer get the additional sub-par hero for 1K Point. I'll admit, Orcs got more bonus' then drawbacks, though you gotta admit goblin armies got shafted, and now you MUST have Orcs in your army to do better (Hell, Fanatics are no longer even Ignore Armor saves).
Goblin armies can still do well enough, they just are more balanced now, its still possible to win with them. Before you could have a 2k list with 4 magic users, and then just get 2 goblin heroes for a little bit of combat support, or even more magic. Netters make your opponents lose 1 pt of strength. Fanatics are still bloody good, and goblins automatically get a 5+ armour save. Not to mention the Spider Riders which can go over all terrain without disadvantages, and they are also fast calvary, and a core choice. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:55 am
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EliotJamesRookwood ATTENTION O & G PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING!!! I have read the new book, and Orcs and Goblins have been improved, you now have what is essentially a rune fang, Black Orcs, cost 13pts, but they get to choose each combat if they want to use two choppas, a shield, or a great weapon. Each combat. Orc Arrer Boyz went down to 6pts a model. The army list is in no way lesser, it is improved.
I've got the new book, and I have to disagree.
We get a couple more effective magic weapons, true. But I hope you don't like armor. You've got two selections outside the stuff in the "Common Magic Items" list, and neither of them gives you a better save than 5+. So, as I see it, magic items is a wash-- improved in some ways, but diminished in others.
Black Orcs are probably better overall for the adjustments. But, you DO have to buy the shields (that wasn't really clear in what you said), and I'm still at a total loss for the changes to the Black Orc unit champion. 20 points for an extra attack and an extra point of WS? You don't even get the S bonus they got last edition-- and it's twice as much for the upgrade now.
How about the Big'Uns upgrade? Twice as many points now for the same effect. Hardly an "improvement". Boar Boyz? 4 points more than they were last edition, for the exact same stat line. Again, I fail to see an improvement, especially in the case of Boar Boy Big'Uns. You'll be paying 3 points less for a Boar Boy Big'Un than you would be for a Chaos Knight, and I honestly don't think that Boar Boyz are anywhere near the same league as a Chaos Knight.
Black Orc Big Bosses also got nerfed-- only S4 now, instead of S5. Only one Goblin Wolf Chariot per Special slot now. Fanatics are only Armor Piercing now, instead of ignoring armor saves (Why was this change necessary? It only helps Heavy Cav, and I don't think they were much in need of help against Orcs and Goblins.)
Sorry if it sounds like I'm flaming you-- I'm not. But I do have to disagree wholeheartedly with your statement that, "The army list is in no way lesser, it is improved." I've listed more than a couple of ways in which the army list is lesser. Is it a TOTAL loss? I don't think so; but, I also think time (and other 7th ed. book releases) will be the ultimate judge of that. But I don't think there's a blanket improvement of the army by any stretch of the imagination.
One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes |
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:22 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:57 am
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Lethkhar Sorscha Kratikoff One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes That's because Grimgor sucks, and everyone knows it. Maybe they're preparing for a new storyline? It's a new edition, after all.
Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)...
Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck. |
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:41 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:51 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:52 pm
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Drachyench_The_Eternal Lethkhar Sorscha Kratikoff One other thing about the new book: was my copy bound badly? Did a couple of pages fall out, or something? You see, I could only find this tiny little 1" x 2" block of fluff for Grimgor Ironhide. They barely even mention that the Storm of Chaos happened, or that Grimgor beat down Archaon. Way to push the story there, guys. rolleyes That's because Grimgor sucks, and everyone knows it. Maybe they're preparing for a new storyline? It's a new edition, after all. Now now, he HAS done more damage to the Empire then all Archaons horde itself (How many bloody swathes has he cut through the Empire? At least 2)... Though yeah, compared to a Vampire (Who would actually make sense to defeat Archaon), he does suck.
Grimgor defeated Archaon using under-the-belt tactics. He interrupted the duel. Thus, Grimgor sucks. |
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