Knowing your dieties

[Neko_Bast]

AngryRobotsInc.

Wow, that was amazingly childish, but I did want to cover something I noticed while reading through this thread.

iolitefire

I don't believe all war goddesses or love goddesses are the same by any means. They may preside over similar fields but their behavior, mannerisms, and mythologies might be incredibly different. Look at Aphrodite and Bast. Both are considered to have some power over the powers of love and lust but they were different in many ways. Bast is more than that of course, and should be treated differently than other 'love goddesses'.

Bast is not a "love goddess." She is one of several goddess known as an Eye of Ra. She is vengeful, protective, and rather nasty at times. It was only through her association with Het-Hert, Mut, and Aset that she was softened, but only then to a love of the arts and music, really.

The closest you can get to her being a "love goddess" is that she was at times considered a protector of children and pregnant women.

THANK YOU!! I was sooooo going to corect this but you did it nicely. That girl really needs to read some more on other goddeses. There is no way Bast is a "love goddess" or a "goddess of lust."  

[TeaDidikai]

deadmanjake

Other than the age, what is innaccurate? I want something that is truly good.

Link me and I'll go over it again.

Note on Bast- were I the kind to say deities are "Patron/ess of XYZ", lust wouldn't be too unreasonable as I recall some of her worship included ecstatic orgies.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

deadmanjake

Other than the age, what is innaccurate? I want something that is truly good.

Link me and I'll go over it again.

Note on Bast- were I the kind to say deities are "Patron/ess of XYZ", lust wouldn't be too unreasonable as I recall some of her worship included ecstatic orgies.

It depends on who you talk to about her, but from what I have gathered about her, she is more about sensual plesure in life then lust or sex. Most books that have her in them are quoteing sources that are incorect. What I know about her I have learned durning meditation, from here per-Bast.org, and a couple of books on Egyption Paganism.

edit: although I try not to lable her as a "goddess of ________," for she has a complex personality.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

It depends on who you talk to about her, but from what I have gathered about her, she is more about sensual plesure in life then lust or sex.

Not sure I agree there is a dicotemy there.  

[IH_Zero]

TeaDidikai

deadmanjake

Other than the age, what is innaccurate? I want something that is truly good.

Link me and I'll go over it again.

Note on Bast- were I the kind to say deities are "Patron/ess of XYZ", lust wouldn't be too unreasonable as I recall some of her worship included ecstatic orgies.

Most likely not in the temples. There was a huge deal with knowing the parentage of a child, and orgies could screw that up big time.

If Bast was a "love/lust goddess," we'd know. There were no real taboos preventing anyone from saying such things in ancient Egypt.  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

Most likely not in the temples. There was a huge deal with knowing the parentage of a child, and orgies could screw that up big time.

If Bast was a "love/lust goddess," we'd know. There were no real taboos preventing anyone from saying such things in ancient Egypt.

Actually, I could have sworn that Herodotus tells of group sex rites in the main temple shrine at Bubastis as a function of "birthing" Mahes- and that such were part of the Mahes's priesthood rights as well.  

[IH_Zero]

TeaDidikai

AngryRobotsInc.

Most likely not in the temples. There was a huge deal with knowing the parentage of a child, and orgies could screw that up big time.

If Bast was a "love/lust goddess," we'd know. There were no real taboos preventing anyone from saying such things in ancient Egypt.

Actually, I could have sworn that Herodotus tells of group sex rites in the main temple shrine at Bubastis as a function of "birthing" Mahes- and that such were part of the Mahes's priesthood rights as well.

From my reading, it was women pulling up their skirts (or some such) and shaking sistrums. I need to find my texts, and look into it more, before I'll say for certain though.  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

From my reading, it was women pulling up their skirts (or some such) and shaking sistrums. I need to find my texts, and look into it more, before I'll say for certain though.

Sounds good. It's been ages since I read that stuff anyway.  

[Neko_Bast]

AngryRobotsInc.

TeaDidikai

AngryRobotsInc.

Most likely not in the temples. There was a huge deal with knowing the parentage of a child, and orgies could screw that up big time.

If Bast was a "love/lust goddess," we'd know. There were no real taboos preventing anyone from saying such things in ancient Egypt.

Actually, I could have sworn that Herodotus tells of group sex rites in the main temple shrine at Bubastis as a function of "birthing" Mahes- and that such were part of the Mahes's priesthood rights as well.

From my reading, it was women pulling up their skirts (or some such) and shaking sistrums. I need to find my texts, and look into it more, before I'll say for certain though.

Here is what I have read.

per-Bast.org: Myths, Sex and Sexuality

Additional ideas that have no known evidence from antiquity: religious prostitution, orgiastic dance rituals, visionary orgasm, or ritualistic stripteases. Religious prostitution appears to be a factor in Sumerian religion, but was not part of Egypt's due to the cultural significance placed upon ancestry and knowing a child's parentage. While dancing was important and female priests were frequently musicians and/or dancers [21], sex in the temple was considered a heresy; in the literal House of God, it simply didn't happen [22]. And while the idea of ritualistic strippers in a desert culture is amusing, it is a modern one. The ancient Egyptians frequently went around in light, see-through clothing or, alternately, no clothing at all.

per-Bast.org: Sex, Artemis, and Herodotus

Herodotus describes a festival of Bast/Artemis as a "licentious affair" in which women pulled up their skirts while shaking sistra [15]. Quite often scholars have interpreted this as meaning that all this risqué behavior indicated a divinity Who, as a cat, promoted sexual activity and playfulness -- but how much of this is an ancient text being filtered through a modern bias? The Egyptians were known for their parties, and Egyptian women had much more freedom than perhaps any other culture in the classical world. Could it be that Herodotus, in describing this festival, was describing how most festivals were in ancient Egypt? Or perhaps all this wild behavior was an attempt to appease Bast/Artemis? Sistra, after all, were shaken to appease gods [16]. And in the Contendings of Horus and Seth, Ra is appeased when Het-hert "reveals" Herself to Him [17].

(this one is when the Greeks started saying Bast was a form of Artemis, which we all know she is not.)  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

Here is what I have read.

per-Bast.org: Myths, Sex and Sexuality

Additional ideas that have no known evidence from antiquity: religious prostitution, orgiastic dance rituals, visionary orgasm, or ritualistic stripteases. Religious prostitution appears to be a factor in Sumerian religion, but was not part of Egypt's due to the cultural significance placed upon ancestry and knowing a child's parentage. While dancing was important and female priests were frequently musicians and/or dancers [21], sex in the temple was considered a heresy; in the literal House of God, it simply didn't happen [22]. And while the idea of ritualistic strippers in a desert culture is amusing, it is a modern one. The ancient Egyptians frequently went around in light, see-through clothing or, alternately, no clothing at all.

What texts are those citations for?

per-Bast.org: Sex, Artemis, and Herodotus

Herodotus describes a festival of Bast/Artemis as a "licentious affair" in which women pulled up their skirts while shaking sistra [15]. Quite often scholars have interpreted this as meaning that all this risqué behavior indicated a divinity Who, as a cat, promoted sexual activity and playfulness -- but how much of this is an ancient text being filtered through a modern bias? The Egyptians were known for their parties, and Egyptian women had much more freedom than perhaps any other culture in the classical world. Could it be that Herodotus, in describing this festival, was describing how most festivals were in ancient Egypt? Or perhaps all this wild behavior was an attempt to appease Bast/Artemis? Sistra, after all, were shaken to appease gods [16]. And in the Contendings of Horus and Seth, Ra is appeased when Het-hert "reveals" Herself to Him [17].

I'm not so much looking through modern bias. I was trying to address Herodotus' writings first hand. But like I said- it has been ages since I read them.

Quote:

(this one is when the Greeks started saying Bast was a form of Artemis, which we all know she is not.)

Yes, but that wouldn't invalidate Herodotus' first hand accounts of temple rituals.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Heroditus isn't exactly the most reliable source...
I mean, even Cicero brought his credibility into question...
And not whether he wrote the truth, but rather whether he was intentionally BSing, or whether he was just taking 3rd hand accounts and niavely documenting them as fact.

Father of Modern History indeed. rolleyes  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Heroditus isn't exactly the most reliable source...
I mean, even Cicero brought his credibility into question...
Adn not whetehr he wrote the truth, but rather whether he was intentionally BSing, or whether he was just taking 3rd hand accounts and niavely documenting them as fact.

Father of Modern History indeed. rolleyes

wink Fair enough. But we need more infromation to toss it out the window.  

[Neko_Bast]

here are the sorces

15. ibid.

16. Gay Robins, Women in Ancient Egypt, Harvard University Press

17. Miriam Lichtheim, translator, Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol. II, University of California Press

and

21. Dieter Arnold (Editor), Lanny Bell, Ragnhild Bjerre Finnestad (Editor), Byron E. Shafer, Temples of Ancient Egypt, Cornell University Press

22. ibid.

I'm not sure what ibid means.  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Neko_Bast

here are the sorces

15. ibid.

16. Gay Robins, Women in Ancient Egypt, Harvard University Press

17. Miriam Lichtheim, translator, Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol. II, University of California Press

and

21. Dieter Arnold (Editor), Lanny Bell, Ragnhild Bjerre Finnestad (Editor), Byron E. Shafer, Temples of Ancient Egypt, Cornell University Press

22. ibid.

I'm not sure what ibid means.

"Ibid" esentially means "same source as the immediately preceding citation". So 22's "ibid" means it's the same source as 21. In order to know what 15 is referring to, we'll need 14 (or, if 14 is an "ibid", whatever number before 15 gives the source).  

[Neko_Bast]

ok...........this is funny..... rofl

14. Herodotus, Histories