The Orcs and Goblins

[Sorscha Kratikoff]

I'm awaiting the October release with a mix of eagerness and dread. I love Orcs, but I'm not sure I like the rumored changes to either 7th ed. Fantasy or the Org/Goblin army. I withhold judgement, though, until a clearer picture of things come together.

However, it's hard not to get excited when there are going to be new models like Gorbad Ironclaw... here's a picture of the model from a German Fantasy forum-- sorry about the quality, but you get a good enough idea. biggrin

Why oh why, though, did they get rid of Borgut Facebeater?  

[Hoxtalicious]

They are bringing back Skarsnik and Gobbla though! And from what I've seen, Gobbla has grown quite a bit (Large monster base, or whatever it's called these days), which is good as the previous model was too small to be a real eating machine.  

[Clockwork_Creep]

Yeah, the Gobbla model is really good. I was thinking of making a sort of 40k 'Rough Riders' with it. But i don't know how well that would work out...  

[Drachyench]

They may also be bumping Gobbo's up a point, from what I've heard...  

[Sorscha Kratikoff]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

They may also be bumping Gobbo's up a point, from what I've heard...

I've heard the same. I believe that they go up a point, and have light armor by default. That's going to upset Goblin players, who are going to feel like they have to pay 4 pts. for a Goblin (including shield, since lt. armor is worthless,) but I use Orcs primarily, so it stings less. mrgreen However, I don't know how I feel about the rumored increase in price for Big'Uns (a doubling in cost for the upgrade for Orcs and Boarboyz, from what I've seen.)

As for Skarsnik and Gobbla... yeah, Gobbla's a big ol' boy now. I recall that the model is on a 60mm wide x 40mm deep base. Flank him with 4 Night Gobbos (two on each side,) and that's two ranks of your unit right there.

Grom the Paunch is going to be in the book, as is Azhag the Slaughterer. Based on the awesome Gorbad model, I can't wait to see the new models for these guys... xd  

[Drachyench]

Sorscha Kratikoff

Drachyench_The_Eternal

They may also be bumping Gobbo's up a point, from what I've heard...

I've heard the same. I believe that they go up a point, and have light armor by default. That's going to upset Goblin players, who are going to feel like they have to pay 4 pts. for a Goblin (including shield, since lt. armor is worthless,) but I use Orcs primarily, so it stings less. mrgreen However, I don't know how I feel about the rumored increase in price for Big'Uns (a doubling in cost for the upgrade for Orcs and Boarboyz, from what I've seen.)

As for Skarsnik and Gobbla... yeah, Gobbla's a big ol' boy now. I recall that the model is on a 60mm wide x 40mm deep base. Flank him with 4 Night Gobbos (two on each side,) and that's two ranks of your unit right there.

Grom the Paunch is going to be in the book, as is Azhag the Slaughterer. Based on the awesome Gorbad model, I can't wait to see the new models for these guys... xd

They no longer have shields for defaul either?

Scrapping all the Gobbo's then that I got from Skull Pass. Like hell I'm gonna pay 4 points for an Ork with 1 less WS, 1 less T, and 1 Less Courage.

4 Pts for Big 'Uns, great, they're making Orc units crappier. 9pts for a Big-Un with basic weapons. This REALLY ******** up my army (Pardon my language), as it's ALL about masses of Orcs and Goblins, not a shitload of 5+ and 4+ saves.

Basically, I think they took away the great thing from Orcs (Cheapness) and gave them something they weren't meant to have (Armor saves).

Imagine a 4pt increase in 40K Orcs, and they suddenly now have a 5+ save instead. Not going to do jack against shooting (Almost no weapons are AP 6 or nil, most are 5), and for combat it's still not a big bonus.  

[Sorscha Kratikoff]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

They no longer have shields for defaul either?

Scrapping all the Gobbo's then that I got from Skull Pass. Like hell I'm gonna pay 4 points for an Ork with 1 less WS, 1 less T, and 1 Less Courage.

4 Pts for Big 'Uns, great, they're making Orc units crappier. 9pts for a Big-Un with basic weapons. This REALLY ******** up my army (Pardon my language), as it's ALL about masses of Orcs and Goblins, not a shitload of 5+ and 4+ saves.

Basically, I think they took away the great thing from Orcs (Cheapness) and gave them something they weren't meant to have (Armor saves).

Imagine a 4pt increase in 40K Orcs, and they suddenly now have a 5+ save instead. Not going to do jack against shooting (Almost no weapons are AP 6 or nil, most are 5), and for combat it's still not a big bonus.

Here's the meat of the Orc/Goblin Army book discussion, straight from Warseer. I'd suggest following the link to the discussion on TWF, as it has most of the specifics (including prices.)

I totally agree with you, though, except they're not even giving Orcs an armor save for the increase in cost. The thought of paying 30 pts. for a WS4 S4 Boarboy makes me sick. That's Chaos Knight cost for a model that'd have to stand on a chair to kiss a Chaos Knight's a**. And Black Orc Big Bosses are only S4 now. Black Orcs are a base 13 pts., etc. Did I mention Drog's Dead 'Ard Armor is gone? Hope you didn't like a decent save for your characters, because you're not getting one now. Lots of points increases and other tweaks with diminishing returns. I don't know the direction they're taking with the army, but I don't think I like it.  

[Drachyench]

Sorscha Kratikoff

Drachyench_The_Eternal

They no longer have shields for defaul either?

Scrapping all the Gobbo's then that I got from Skull Pass. Like hell I'm gonna pay 4 points for an Ork with 1 less WS, 1 less T, and 1 Less Courage.

4 Pts for Big 'Uns, great, they're making Orc units crappier. 9pts for a Big-Un with basic weapons. This REALLY ******** up my army (Pardon my language), as it's ALL about masses of Orcs and Goblins, not a shitload of 5+ and 4+ saves.

Basically, I think they took away the great thing from Orcs (Cheapness) and gave them something they weren't meant to have (Armor saves).

Imagine a 4pt increase in 40K Orcs, and they suddenly now have a 5+ save instead. Not going to do jack against shooting (Almost no weapons are AP 6 or nil, most are 5), and for combat it's still not a big bonus.

Here's the meat of the Orc/Goblin Army book discussion, straight from Warseer. I'd suggest following the link to the discussion on TWF, as it has most of the specifics (including prices.)

I totally agree with you, though, except they're not even giving Orcs an armor save for the increase in cost. The thought of paying 30 pts. for a WS4 S4 Boarboy makes me sick. That's Chaos Knight cost for a model that'd have to stand on a chair to kiss a Chaos Knight's a**. And Black Orc Big Bosses are only S4 now. Black Orcs are a base 13 pts., etc. Did I mention Drog's Dead 'Ard Armor is gone? Hope you didn't like a decent save for your characters, because you're not getting one now. Lots of points increases and other tweaks with diminishing returns. I don't know the direction they're taking with the army, but I don't think I like it.

... s**t, they're nerfing it down. Big time. This ******** SUCKS! Good thing I'm starting a Clan Eshin, as that's all I'll be playing with for a while now.

S4 on a B-Orc is Bullcrap to the -mph degree. Lemme guess, B Orc bosses now only gain 1 attack? B-Orcs lost their only interest to me (Their High WS wasn't their good point, it was that with a Great weapon they mashed up anything).

Big 'uns are now overpriced. God bless, they're flurking nerfing Orcs. I bet I know why, though. Some whiney players probably bitched about Black Orcs being 'too strong', and GW got sick of it and lowered their S.

Sorry for my language, but this IS ******** BS. I can't understand why they're NERFING models, while RAISING their costs. I swear, if they LOWER B-Orc Hero WS, make a limit on them too, or keep them at an additional Hero choice, I'm probably gonna drop my Orcs for a LONG time and stick with Skaven.  

[Sorscha Kratikoff]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

... s**t, they're nerfing it down. Big time. This ******** SUCKS! Good thing I'm starting a Clan Eshin, as that's all I'll be playing with for a while now.

S4 on a B-Orc is Bullcrap to the -mph degree. Lemme guess, B Orc bosses now only gain 1 attack? B-Orcs lost their only interest to me (Their High WS wasn't their good point, it was that with a Great weapon they mashed up anything).

Big 'uns are now overpriced. God bless, they're flurking nerfing Orcs. I bet I know why, though. Some whiney players probably bitched about Black Orcs being 'too strong', and GW got sick of it and lowered their S.

Sorry for my language, but this IS ******** BS. I can't understand why they're NERFING models, while RAISING their costs. I swear, if they LOWER B-Orc Hero WS, make a limit on them too, or keep them at an additional Hero choice, I'm probably gonna drop my Orcs for a LONG time and stick with Skaven.

That's right-- BOrc bosses only get one more attack, for double the price of the upgrade in 6th ed, though I don't know about the WS. I really find the loss of the +1S hard to swallow, though, as I really came to appreciate the ability to get 5 S5 attacks out of the front rank of my BOrcs (with a Big Boss in the unit). Now, I'll get zero, since Big Bosses are only S4.

Totally agree about the Big'Uns being overpriced. 12 points per model to give them spears and shields-- the standard kit I gave my Big'Uns-- is ridiculous. That's 240 pts. for a unit of 20 without command. I ran a unit of 25, with full command and a magic banner. That'd be upwards of 300 with 7th ed. point values, I'm sure. That unit's nice, but it's no 300-pt. unit.

And why in the blue hell are they nerfing Night Goblin Fanatics?! The only thing they're protecting with that change are Heavy Cav. Heavy Cav needed NO help, especially not against Orcs.

I want to try and be open-minded, but I'm not seeing much (besides the awesome Gorbad model) to keep me interested in Orcs, or Fantasy for that matter.  

[Lethkhar]

Wow, Orcs must've been really good before for them to nerf them so much. eek  

[Sorscha Kratikoff]

Lethkhar

Wow, Orcs must've been really good before for them to nerf them so much. eek

That's the funny thing-- in my experience, the Orcs were a solid, consistent list. Not too good, and not too bad. In any given discussion of well-balanced armies, Orcs would be one of the armies frequently mentioned. Same went for the Storm of Chaos Orc army-- the 'Ardboyz. Not too good; not too bad. Just solid, but in a different way.

The only thing I ever saw people complain about was the Waagh! magic (specifically, the Big Waagh!-- people hated spells like Gork's Warpath.)  

[Drachyench]

Lethkhar

Wow, Orcs must've been really good before for them to nerf them so much. eek

XP Basic Gobbo with a 5+ save in CC for 2pts, Big 'Uns 7pts before upgrades, Black orcs worth their points, etc. Orcs were good due to the fact that they had decent statlines at a reasonable cost. Now, they're decreasing statlines/equipment while raising the costs (B-Orcs no longer quell animosity, and cost 3 more pts. The Unit champion goes up 5 pts in cost, but goes down 1 point in strength. Fanatics are now Armor piercing, and Madcaps only let you reroll the # of hits.)

Basically, they're going, "Hm, I think this is a little too good for its cost. lemme just add 3 points to its cost, take 2 random stat points away, and we're good to go. To keep people distracted from the suckage we're doing to troops, let us re-release old Heros, and make it so you need one of them for the army to actually work. "  

[Clockwork_Creep]

Withthte new rules, I am not going to stop playing orcs. I belive I will no longer use an Orc list.
I think I'm going to use Night Goblins.
I want my opponets to hate my magic weilding Gobbos.  

[Drachyench]

lord_illpalazzo

Withthte new rules, I am not going to stop playing orcs. I belive I will no longer use an Orc list.
I think I'm going to use Night Goblins.
I want my opponets to hate my magic weilding Gobbos.

Your gobbo's no longer generate Dispel or Power Dice.

You no longer get the Extra gobbo hero per 1K points now.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

lord_illpalazzo

Withthte new rules, I am not going to stop playing orcs. I belive I will no longer use an Orc list.
I think I'm going to use Night Goblins.
I want my opponets to hate my magic weilding Gobbos.

Your gobbo's no longer generate Dispel or Power Dice.

You no longer get the Extra gobbo hero per 1K points now.

Really now? That truly sucks. But I do have a suggestion for you Orc and Goblin players, use house rules. If you don't like what games-workshop is doing, make up your own rules, so you can give the army its balance, the people you play with should be cool with that.