The Empire

[Lethkhar]

Lt. Brookman

To further bring the Empire back into topic of it's own thread, here's my list of an Empire army I'm thinking of working on. It's just over 2.000 pts. and contains units that people here think "suck" and are generally bad. If providing critique, please be constructive. BE constructive. I myself am fond of themed armies with plenty of flavour and diversity, hence the smattering amount of troops of different types. The army will either be from Marienburg (I am Dutch after all) or a generic Empire army with units drawn from all over the Empire, such as handgunners and cannons from Nuln, swordsmen from Bogenhafen and of course, the Greatswords of Carroburg! Which will provide for an interesting palette of colours and the such.

LORD.
Lord Visser (Elector Count) - Meteoric armour, shield, pistol and the Sword of Sigismund.

HEROES.
Captain Van Buren - Full plate, shield, lance and barded warhorse.

Captain Willem - Full plate and halberd.

Captain Chevaux - Full plate, shield and pistol.

CORE.
Halberdiers regiment "NASSAU" (20) - Full command & will be joined by captain Willem.

Spearmen regiment (20) - Full command and shields.

Swordsmen regiment (20) - Full command & will be joined by captain Chevaux.

Handgunner detachment (8 ).

Handgunner detachment (8 ).

Free Company (20) - Full command.

Free Company (20) - Full command.

Crossbow regiment (20) - Marksman.

SPECIAL.
the Greatswords of Carroburg (10) - Full command & will be joined by Lord Visser.

Pistoleers (5) - Will be joined by captain Van Buren.

Great Cannon.

Great Cannon.

RARE.
Helblaster Volleygun.

It would help if you explained any tactics you had in mind...It definitely seems diverse, but does it have any sort of idea behind using it?

For example, what are you going to be fighting? And what sort of role do you see the free companies in?  

[Everlasting Chaos]

Lt. Brookman

To further bring the Empire back into topic of it's own thread, here's my list of an Empire army I'm thinking of working on. It's just over 2.000 pts. and contains units that people here think "suck" and are generally bad. If providing critique, please be constructive. BE constructive. I myself am fond of themed armies with plenty of flavour and diversity, hence the smattering amount of troops of different types. The army will either be from Marienburg (I am Dutch after all) or a generic Empire army with units drawn from all over the Empire, such as handgunners and cannons from Nuln, swordsmen from Bogenhafen and of course, the Greatswords of Carroburg! Which will provide for an interesting palette of colours and the such.

LORD.
Lord Visser (Elector Count) - Meteoric armour, shield, pistol and the Sword of Sigismund.
Drop the shield, the Armour of Meteoric Iron cannot be improved by any means. No sense in paying for a shield when it won't do anything anyway.

HEROES.
Captain Van Buren - Full plate, shield, lance and barded warhorse.
Typical knightly leader, not bad.

Captain Willem - Full plate and halberd.
Put the Count's shield over here instead. True, it won't work in combat, but it'll still help you out against missile fire. This is assuming you keep that shield around.

Captain Chevaux - Full plate, shield and pistol.
Forget the pistol. The new rules make it so you can't fire it in combat. It's now just a normal hand weapon.

CORE.
Halberdiers regiment "NASSAU" (20) - Full command & will be joined by captain Willem.
Putting the Captain in there's going to help out alot. That should make the Halberdiers a threat worth watching out for.

Spearmen regiment (20) - Full command and shields.
Personally not too incredibly fond of Spearmen, but if you stick them up the middle of your force and avoid charging with them they should work out fine.

Swordsmen regiment (20) - Full command & will be joined by captain Chevaux.
I'd move the detachments over to the Spearmen instead. They can only offer Supporting Fire when the Parent Unit is charged, and the Spearmen shouldn't really be the ones doing much charging. Swordsmen however have no reason to hold back and should be rushing into combat against most units.

Handgunner detachment (8 ).

Handgunner detachment (8 ).

Free Company (20) - Full command.
Good choice. You always want to have some Free Company lying around to screen your units from fire or hold off against those pesky undead.

Free Company (20) - Full command.

Crossbow regiment (20) - Marksman.
I'd exchange them for more Handgunners. I honestly could not see why anyone would want Crossbowmen. Both units cost the same amount of points, both weapons have the same range, strength, and move-or-shoot rule, but the Handgun is Armour Piercing. So Handgunners actually are the better choice between the two. And of course there's also the extra range on the first shot of a Handgun.

SPECIAL.
the Greatswords of Carroburg (10) - Full command & will be joined by Lord Visser.
I speak from experience when I say that 10 Greatswords aren't likely to achieve much. Either put about 5 more in there or drop the unit entirely.

Pistoleers (5) - Will be joined by captain Van Buren.
Putting the Captain in this unit is a bad idea. Can't remember exactly which, but he either won't benefit from Free Reform or he'll completely negate the unit's ability to use it. He's also going to be limited to his normal line of sight arc, and might even negate the Pistoliers' ability to see all directions. On top of that the new rules make it so Pistoliers are MUCH better outside of combat than they are in it. As I said before, pistols do squat in combat. Good news is having two pistols now allows you to get 2X multiple shots.

Great Cannon.
Can't argue with a Great Cannon. Unless you like a gaping hole in your stomach, that is. xd

Great Cannon.

RARE.
Helblaster Volleygun.
Only one rare choice? It's 2k points! Throw in a Steam Tank or something. xd Or maybe around 20 Flagellants to hurl in the path of any big enemies. Either way good choice with the Helblaster. Two possible ways you could use that thing. First, you could put it by the Cannons to play bodyguard duty. I can assure you most people are a little reluctant to send combat units to take out Cannons when there's a Helblaster nearby. And of course the Cannons themselves can take out the enemy's long-range weaponry. The second way to use this thing is to drop it in a spot you don't want the enemy entering. I've found they have the uncanny ability to steer the enemy into your main troops because the enemy's more likely to survive against infantry. xd

Overall it looks like a pretty well-balanced force. Might want to throw in a few knights though.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Crossbow's have 30' range. Handguns have 24'. Empire Handguns have 24' + d6 the first time you use them.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

EliotJamesRookwood

Crossbow's have 30' range. Handguns have 24'. Empire Handguns have 24' + d6 the first time you use them.

Why so they do. Either way I, personally, would take Armour Piercing over the extra 6".  

[Lethkhar]

Everlasting Chaos

EliotJamesRookwood

Crossbow's have 30' range. Handguns have 24'. Empire Handguns have 24' + d6 the first time you use them.

Why so they do. Either way I, personally, would take Armour Piercing over the extra 6".

Personally, I think it depends on what you're fighting.  

[Hoxtalicious]

Taking the points mentioned into consideration here's a rewrite of the list with changes. As for opponent, I have no specific opponent in mind, this is more or less just a generic force designed to fight anything. Granted, it may not be able to fight everything, but I like to have diversity in the army.

LORD.
Elector Count - Pistol, Meteoric armour and the Sword of Sigismund. (Joins Greatswords)

HEROES.
Captain - Full plate, armoured warhorse, shield and lance.

Captain - Full plate, halberd and shield. (Joins halberdiers)

Captain - Full plate, shield and hand weapon. (Joins swordmen)

CORE.
Halberdiers (20) - Full command.

Spearmen (20) - Full command and shields.
+ Handgunners detachment (8 )
+ Handgunners detachment (8 )

Swordsmen (20) - Full command.
+ Free Company detachment (10)

Free Company (20) - Full command.

Knightly Order (8 ) - Full command and Inner Circle.

SPECIAL.
Greatswords (20) - Full command.

Pistoleers (5) - Marksman.

Great Cannon.

Great Cannon.

RARE.
Helblaster Volleygun.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

Lt. Brookman

Taking the points mentioned into consideration here's a rewrite of the list with changes. As for opponent, I have no specific opponent in mind, this is more or less just a generic force designed to fight anything. Granted, it may not be able to fight everything, but I like to have diversity in the army.

LORD.
Elector Count - Pistol, Meteoric armour and the Sword of Sigismund. (Joins Greatswords)
Dropped the shield, that's good.

HEROES.
Captain - Full plate, armoured warhorse, shield and lance.

Captain - Full plate, halberd and shield. (Joins halberdiers)

Captain - Full plate, shield and hand weapon. (Joins swordmen)
All good.

CORE.
Halberdiers (20) - Full command.

Spearmen (20) - Full command and shields.
+ Handgunners detachment (8 )
+ Handgunners detachment (8 )
Moved the detachments, that's good.

Swordsmen (20) - Full command.
+ Free Company detachment (10)

Free Company (20) - Full command.

Knightly Order (8 ) - Full command and Inner Circle.
Good choice, just don't use them for head-on attacks. Always try to flank the enemy with the knights unless you're paying for even more. But I don't think you'll need more than 8.

SPECIAL.
Greatswords (20) - Full command.
Now THAT is a unit to be afraid of!

Pistoleers (5) - Marksman.
If you can still afford it give the Marksman a Repeater Pistol. It'll still give him one more shot than the rest of the unit once the new rules are released, and it's 2 more until then.

Great Cannon.

Great Cannon.

RARE.
Helblaster Volleygun.
Still just the one Helblaster, but I don't think you'll really need any more Rare choices now

That looks MUCH better now. And as for the Crossbow vs Handgunner debate an all-around army would probably prefer Handgunners. Which are you more afraid of? A Clanrat horde or Brettonnian Knights? Clanrats are weak, so that extra shot from the Crossbows would help. But Brettonnian Knights laugh at the measely crossbows. Handguns are one of the best ways to dispatch heavily armoured enemies from a range, and I'd say heavily armoured enemies are a bigger threat.  

[Hoxtalicious]

I'd like to see the Helblaster as a calculated risk, both to the enemy and the army that fields it. It's not a question of "if", but when will the Helblaster misfire or blow up. But it is still a powerful deterrent against foes. They may scoff at the weapon's superb ability at exploding but in the rare occassions that it does fire, you'll need more then a band aid.

As for crossbows, one day I will field a regiment of Tileans with crossbows as militia or some southern regiment. I love diverse things and a clash of different arms is one of them.  

[Drachyench]

As for the Crossbow/Handun debate: Orcs[Or at least Ruglud] use Crossbows. That should tell you what's better right there.

Anyways, about the knights: In new edition, you may wanna buy 2 more knights to get the rank bonus again.  

[Lethkhar]

Lt. Brookman

I'd like to see the Helblaster as a calculated risk, both to the enemy and the army that fields it. It's not a question of "if", but when will the Helblaster misfire or blow up. But it is still a powerful deterrent against foes. They may scoff at the weapon's superb ability at exploding but in the rare occassions that it does fire, you'll need more then a band aid.

As for crossbows, one day I will field a regiment of Tileans with crossbows as militia or some southern regiment. I love diverse things and a clash of different arms is one of them.

My friend always puts a Master Engineer with his hellcannon.

That thing is truly scary. It rips through everything, and I mean everything.

-4 armor is nothing to scoff at, especially when there's 20+ shots.

Your army is definitely diverse. But its effectiveness really depends on what you're fighting.

It's good that you made on of the free companes a detachment. Negating ranks bonuses is wonderfully valuable.  

[Lethkhar]

Crossbows are good for things like goblins and clanrats, where they have no real armor.

However, against things like Chosen Chaos Knights and Brettonian Knights, handguns are hands-down much more useful.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

Lethkhar

Lt. Brookman

I'd like to see the Helblaster as a calculated risk, both to the enemy and the army that fields it. It's not a question of "if", but when will the Helblaster misfire or blow up. But it is still a powerful deterrent against foes. They may scoff at the weapon's superb ability at exploding but in the rare occassions that it does fire, you'll need more then a band aid.

As for crossbows, one day I will field a regiment of Tileans with crossbows as militia or some southern regiment. I love diverse things and a clash of different arms is one of them.

My friend always puts a Master Engineer with his hellcannon.

That thing is truly scary. It rips through everything, and I mean everything.

-4 armor is nothing to scoff at, especially when there's 20+ shots.

Your army is definitely diverse. But its effectiveness really depends on what you're fighting.

It's good that you made on of the free companes a detachment. Negating ranks bonuses is wonderfully valuable.

Umm.... It's a Helbaster, not a Hellcannon. Hellcannon's Chaos. And the Master Engineer doesn't do anything for the Helblaster. And I know that Crossbows are good against low armour enemies, I'm just saying that for an all-around army you'd probably want Handguns instead. Especially in this case where there's very little mass-armour killers in the army.  

[Lethkhar]

Everlasting Chaos

Lethkhar

Lt. Brookman

I'd like to see the Helblaster as a calculated risk, both to the enemy and the army that fields it. It's not a question of "if", but when will the Helblaster misfire or blow up. But it is still a powerful deterrent against foes. They may scoff at the weapon's superb ability at exploding but in the rare occassions that it does fire, you'll need more then a band aid.

As for crossbows, one day I will field a regiment of Tileans with crossbows as militia or some southern regiment. I love diverse things and a clash of different arms is one of them.

My friend always puts a Master Engineer with his hellcannon.

That thing is truly scary. It rips through everything, and I mean everything.

-4 armor is nothing to scoff at, especially when there's 20+ shots.

Your army is definitely diverse. But its effectiveness really depends on what you're fighting.

It's good that you made on of the free companes a detachment. Negating ranks bonuses is wonderfully valuable.

Umm.... It's a Helbaster, not a Hellcannon. Hellcannon's Chaos. And the Master Engineer doesn't do anything for the Helblaster. And I know that Crossbows are good against low armour enemies, I'm just saying that for an all-around army you'd probably want Handguns instead. Especially in this case where there's very little mass-armour killers in the army.

The Master Engineer doesn't do anything for hellblasters? (Oh. and sorry about misnaming it. My bad. sweatdrop Hell something...)

Why not and where does it say that?

He keeps cheating.... stare  

[Hoxtalicious]

Taking all the mentioned criteria once again into consideration, here's the last rewrite which has been upped to 2.500 pts. to incorporate some of the mentioned changes along with some extras, such as a hammerman, more handgunners, some goodies for them and another Helblaster. Two is better then one, right? More exploding if nothing less.

LORD.
Elector Count – Meteoric armour, the Sword of Sigismund and pistol. (Joins Greatswords)

HEROES.
Captain – Full plate, shield, lance and barded warhorse. (Joins knights)

Captain – Full plate, shield and halberd. (Joins halberdiers)

Captain – Full plate, shield and pistol. (Joins swordsmen)

Warrior Priest – Great weapon and heavy armour. (Joins spearmen)


CORE.
Halberdiers (20) – Full command.

Spearmen (20) – Full command.
Handgunner detachment (10).

Swordsmen (20) – Full command.
Free Company detachment (10).

Free Company (20) – Full command.

Handgunners (10) – Marksman with longrifle.

Handgunners (10) – Marksman with longrifle.

Knightly Order (9) - Full command and Inner Circle.


SPECIAL.
Greatswords (20) - Full command.

Pistoleers (5) – Marksman with repeater pistol.

Great Cannon.

Great Cannon.

RARE.
Helblaster volley gun.

Helblaster volley gun.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

Lethkhar

Everlasting Chaos

Lethkhar

Lt. Brookman

I'd like to see the Helblaster as a calculated risk, both to the enemy and the army that fields it. It's not a question of "if", but when will the Helblaster misfire or blow up. But it is still a powerful deterrent against foes. They may scoff at the weapon's superb ability at exploding but in the rare occassions that it does fire, you'll need more then a band aid.

As for crossbows, one day I will field a regiment of Tileans with crossbows as militia or some southern regiment. I love diverse things and a clash of different arms is one of them.

My friend always puts a Master Engineer with his hellcannon.

That thing is truly scary. It rips through everything, and I mean everything.

-4 armor is nothing to scoff at, especially when there's 20+ shots.

Your army is definitely diverse. But its effectiveness really depends on what you're fighting.

It's good that you made on of the free companes a detachment. Negating ranks bonuses is wonderfully valuable.

Umm.... It's a Helbaster, not a Hellcannon. Hellcannon's Chaos. And the Master Engineer doesn't do anything for the Helblaster. And I know that Crossbows are good against low armour enemies, I'm just saying that for an all-around army you'd probably want Handguns instead. Especially in this case where there's very little mass-armour killers in the army.

The Master Engineer doesn't do anything for hellblasters? (Oh. and sorry about misnaming it. My bad. sweatdrop Hell something...)

Why not and where does it say that?

He keeps cheating.... stare

Page 14 of the Empire rulebook, it's in the first sentence of the "Master of Ballistics" rule. Specifically says that the Volley Gun doesn't benefit from it.

@Brookman: Still looking good.