Otherkin

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

Triste-chan

I would say that's bordering on a straw man. I realize that there are many otherkin like that, but there are others who have far less... dramatic beliefs, and lumping them all in the same catgory is rather like lumping all Asatru with the Neo-Nazi groups.

Furthermore, I would ask you to prove that all Otherkin need to feel special any more tha your average person.

Not a straw man. More of a Hasty Generalization.

I suggest that the concept of Otherkin is a subsect of Mr. Dark. I've been kicking this around for a while. Why redefine yourself by a past experience that may or may not exist unless it is for the sake of stroking one's ego?

Who knows? Why do people ever bother to examine themselves? Why do you define yourself as Rroma or a pagan or a LHP or a lover of Tea? Because people like defining themselves, I suppose.

I mean, the fact that defining yourself as having the soul of a cat makes you feel special doesn't mean you don't have the soul of a cat. For instance, if Tiger Woods defined himself as a kickass golfer, and that made him feel special, would you think, "Well s**t, he must suck a lot at golf!"

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That's because the state of being a ten-year-old is a state that exists only in a certain place. Or time, in this case.

I guess it's kind of like what Reagun always says when people say, "It's okay that I worship The Morrigan, I'm Irish!" and of course they really have Irish ancestors and are now living in America. So no, they aren't Irish as far as the worship of Celtic deities is concerned, because that's more about being in a certain place (or I guess a culture - obviously reagun is the expert, but I vaguely recall him saying that someone who lived in Ireland and left or the child of someone like that could consider themselves properly Irish - please correct me if I'm wrong), but if you ask them about their ancestry, they may say, "I'm Irish." They live in America - that would be their nationality. But their ancestry is Irish, and that's in their blood.

No... False Analogy. Ancestry is in the blood. Culture is in the social structure.

Um... did I say differently?

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And for a soul, perhaps, being of feline origin doesn't change when you move to Humanville.

And I would say it does, as you are now in Human Culture.

Except that your ancestry (or your base personality, or your genes) don't change when you move to another country.

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Weeell. Yes. In some cases. But there are many Opera parts that can't be taught to everyone - if you can't hit the notes, you can't hit the notes.

Unless of course with practice and training you can hit the notes. mrgreen

No amount of training will make an alto into a soprano. Not really. I mean, if you don't have it in you, you really don't have it in you. I realize that there are points in which a person's vocal range increases, but there tends to be a limit for most people.  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

Who knows? Why do people ever bother to examine themselves? Why do you define yourself as Rroma or a pagan or a LHP or a lover of Tea? Because people like defining themselves, I suppose.

Care to prove I have ever called myself a Pagan Triste?

That aside- the rest are parts of objective reality and are used for communication.

Mr. Darks are neither.

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I mean, the fact that defining yourself as having the soul of a cat makes you feel special doesn't mean you don't have the soul of a cat. For instance, if Tiger Woods defined himself as a kickass golfer, and that made him feel special, would you think, "Well s**t, he must suck a lot at golf!"

Again. False Analogy. Objective Reality > Personal Subjective Delusions.

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Except that your ancestry (or your base personality, or your genes) don't change when you move to another country.

Except one needs to be part of the culture to be a Celt. Not to have the heretiage of a Celt.

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No amount of training will make an alto into a soprano. Not really. I mean, if you don't have it in you, you really don't have it in you. I realize that there are points in which a person's vocal range increases, but there tends to be a limit for most people.

That’s what falsettos are for.  

[Triste-chan]

The 'b' key is kind of broken, so fill in the blanks if you see them.

TeaDidikai

Triste-chan

Who knows? Why do people ever bother to examine themselves? Why do you define yourself as Rroma or a pagan or a LHP or a lover of Tea? Because people like defining themselves, I suppose.

Care to prove I have ever called myself a Pagan Triste?

That aside- the rest are parts of objective reality and are used for communication.

Mr. Darks are neither.

THE GOVERNMENT TOOK MY PROOF. THEREFORE I USED SELECTIVE QUOTING:

Tea, two seconds ago, almost

...I [...] have [...] called myself a Pagan...

GASP THIS IS AMAZING

Anyway. Yeah, pagan thing is conceded. Sorry, sorry. crying And okay - you're right. But what about people who say that they've had past lives? Do you think that all such people, even those with normal, non-glamorous past lives, feel the need to be 'special?'

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I mean, the fact that defining yourself as having the soul of a cat makes you feel special doesn't mean you don't have the soul of a cat. For instance, if Tiger Woods defined himself as a kickass golfer, and that made him feel special, would you think, "Well s**t, he must suck a lot at golf!"

Again. False Analogy. Objective Reality > Personal Subjective Delusions.

Except that you kind of haven't proven that they are delusions. I mean, you seem to be saying that because it makes them feel special, it must be a delusion. That isn't really proof, though.

And for the record, whether or not someone is good at golf is technically subjective. I mean, Tiger is obviously an extreme case, but take something else - writing, for instance. I think I'm a pretty good writer. I think I have a talent for writing. This is obviously my subjective opinion, but does this mean that I must be delusional?

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Except that your ancestry (or your base personality, or your genes) don't change when you move to another country.

Except one needs to be part of the culture to be a Celt. Not to have the heretiage of a Celt.

Clearly, but there's a difference between being a Celt and being Irish. And you can be Irish in terms of ancestry without living in Ireland or being part of any particular culture.

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No amount of training will make an alto into a soprano. Not really. I mean, if you don't have it in you, you really don't have it in you. I realize that there are points in which a person's vocal range increases, but there tends to be a limit for most people.

That’s what falsettos are for.

Even falsettos have a limit. Or, sort of. I mean, you can kind of get your voice to squeak higher sounds with enough practice (or such is my experience), but it's not singing, really. It's kind of a guinea pig noise. And some people fail at it altogether.

But not me. Because I make the best guinea pig noises ever. EVER.

 

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

The 'b' key is kind of broken, so fill in the blanks if you see them.

TeaDidikai

Triste-chan

Who knows? Why do people ever bother to examine themselves? Why do you define yourself as Rroma or a pagan or a LHP or a lover of Tea? Because people like defining themselves, I suppose.

Care to prove I have ever called myself a Pagan Triste?

That aside- the rest are parts of objective reality and are used for communication.

Mr. Darks are neither.

THE GOVERNMENT TOOK MY PROOF. THEREFORE I USED SELECTIVE QUOTING:

Tea, two seconds ago, almost

...I [...] have [...] called myself a Pagan...

GASP THIS IS AMAZING

Anyway. Yeah, pagan thing is conceded. Sorry, sorry. crying

Forgiven.

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And okay - you're right. But what about people who say that they've had past lives? Do you think that all such people, even those with normal, non-glamorous past lives, feel the need to be 'special?'

Remember how I said I do not contest the basic nature of their feelings- but I contest the extended mythos attached? (I think it was on the last page)

I accept as a point of gnosis that people experience reincarnation. What I do not accept is that in their present incarnation- it matters what they were.


"I was a doctor in my past life Triste. Here... let me operate on you. "

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Except that you kind of haven't proven that they are delusions. I mean, you seem to be saying that because it makes them feel special, it must be a delusion. That isn't really proof, though.

Not trying to prove it is a delusion. Trying to show that the extended personal mythology is a justification for mental masturbation.

Look at it this way- my foster mother had a Past Life as a Sea Gull that was revealed under quality hypnosis.

I don't contest this. If she had said "I am not really human, I am really a Sea Gull", I would have poked her in the arm, and asked her where her feathers are.

She IS human. She may remember what it is to be a sea gull, but she is human.

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Clearly, but there's a difference between being a Celt and being Irish. And you can be Irish in terms of ancestry without living in Ireland or being part of any particular culture.

And if you have listened to Reagun- he will tell you in very clear terms that having Irish Ancestry does not make you Irish. It means your Ancestors were Irish. You are whatever culture you reside in.  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

And if you have listened to Reagun- he will tell you in very clear terms that having Irish Ancestry does not make you Irish. It means your Ancestors were Irish. You are whatever culture you reside in.

Nothing bugs the general Irish person more than someone who isn't Irish, but who's grandparents (or further back) were (or in most cases one was).  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste? Do you concede?  

[Witchwolf]

reagun ban

TeaDidikai

And if you have listened to Reagun- he will tell you in very clear terms that having Irish Ancestry does not make you Irish. It means your Ancestors were Irish. You are whatever culture you reside in.

Nothing bugs the general Irish person more than someone who isn't Irish, but who's grandparents (or further back) were (or in most cases one was).

This one i do agree on, sorry for butting in and all stare , but my dad was german and irish, mom-french and native blood, i can't claim to be naitve or irish, or even german, like most born in the usa now a days, i am a mutt with old world blood and new world blood. But i can claim i come from the blood of hard working ppl on sides of my lines. That is all around fact and statement.  

[TeaDidikai]

Witchwolf

reagun ban

TeaDidikai

And if you have listened to Reagun- he will tell you in very clear terms that having Irish Ancestry does not make you Irish. It means your Ancestors were Irish. You are whatever culture you reside in.

Nothing bugs the general Irish person more than someone who isn't Irish, but who's grandparents (or further back) were (or in most cases one was).

This one i do agree on, sorry for butting in and all stare , but my dad was german and irish, mom-french and native blood, i can't claim to be naitve or irish, or even german, like most born in the usa now a days, i am a mutt with old world blood and new world blood. But i can claim i come from the blood of hard working ppl on sides of my my lines. That is all around fact and statement.

rolleyes
Congrats. You have Irish, German, French and (What tribe?) First Nation heretiage.

Having an ethnic heretiage doesn't make you a part of that culture. Get over it.  

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

Witchwolf

reagun ban

TeaDidikai

And if you have listened to Reagun- he will tell you in very clear terms that having Irish Ancestry does not make you Irish. It means your Ancestors were Irish. You are whatever culture you reside in.

Nothing bugs the general Irish person more than someone who isn't Irish, but who's grandparents (or further back) were (or in most cases one was).

This one i do agree on, sorry for butting in and all stare , but my dad was german and irish, mom-french and native blood, i can't claim to be naitve or irish, or even german, like most born in the usa now a days, i am a mutt with old world blood and new world blood. But i can claim i come from the blood of hard working ppl on sides of my my lines. That is all around fact and statement.

rolleyes
Congrats. You have Irish, German, French and (What tribe?) First Nation heretiage.

Having an ethnic heretiage doesn't make you a part of that culture. Get over it.

Um. I think that's what he said. She said. Whatever. I don't know.

Anyway. I'm not entirely sure I agree on the whole 'Irish' thing. I mean, obviously they aren't part of Irish culture, and they shouldn't claim to be, but they are Irish by blood. Obviously they have no claim to Irish gods or Irish culture or even an Irish accent, but they do get to act like annoying cunts on St. Patrick's day, saying KISS ME I'M IRISH or pinchign every person who doesn't feel like wearing green because St. Patrick's day is a moronic holiday, don't they?

But I have no desire to get into that argument.

I am a little confused though, Tea. I assume that your path is one that makes reincarnation a thing that is not specific to gender or species or anything like that. I think that may be the problem. My understanding of Otherkin beliefs is that for them, reincarnation is usually a species specific thing - cats reincarnate into cats and dogs into dogs and humans into humans, and Otherkin are supposed to be weird exceptions to the rule: mistakes, perhaps, or maybe they were put there for a purpose, or maybe they did some seriously weird s**t in their past life. So that each soul is meant for a specific thing, and if you put it in another thing, it feels off. A cat soul is the square peg and a human body is the round hole, you know?

I mean, it's obviously not going to make sense otherwise. And that's what I had read when I initially read about Otherkin.  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

TeaDidikai

Witchwolf

reagun ban

TeaDidikai

And if you have listened to Reagun- he will tell you in very clear terms that having Irish Ancestry does not make you Irish. It means your Ancestors were Irish. You are whatever culture you reside in.

Nothing bugs the general Irish person more than someone who isn't Irish, but who's grandparents (or further back) were (or in most cases one was).

This one i do agree on, sorry for butting in and all stare , but my dad was german and irish, mom-french and native blood, i can't claim to be naitve or irish, or even german, like most born in the usa now a days, i am a mutt with old world blood and new world blood. But i can claim i come from the blood of hard working ppl on sides of my my lines. That is all around fact and statement.

rolleyes
Congrats. You have Irish, German, French and (What tribe?) First Nation heretiage.

Having an ethnic heretiage doesn't make you a part of that culture. Get over it.

Um. I think that's what he said. She said. Whatever. I don't know.

Dyslexic moment.

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Anyway. I'm not entirely sure I agree on the whole 'Irish' thing. I mean, obviously they aren't part of Irish culture, and they shouldn't claim to be, but they are Irish by blood.

Irish, Rroma, Swedish etc- these aren't genetic. There are black people who are Irish. There are FN that are English. These are cultures- not genetic traits.

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Obviously they have no claim to Irish gods or Irish culture or even an Irish accent, but they do get to act like annoying cunts on St. Patrick's day, saying KISS ME I'M IRISH or pinchign every person who doesn't feel like wearing green because St. Patrick's day is a moronic holiday, don't they?

Picture for a moment what Reagun would do to someone who pinched him were he not wearing green on St. Patrick's day.

Further- that tradition is part of American Culture. Not Irish. It spawned from Irish Unity in New York after the mass immigration.

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But I have no desire to get into that argument.

I am a little confused though, Tea. I assume that your path is one that makes reincarnation a thing that is not specific to gender or species or anything like that. I think that may be the problem. My understanding of Otherkin beliefs is that for them, reincarnation is usually a species specific thing - cats reincarnate into cats and dogs into dogs and humans into humans, and Otherkin are supposed to be weird exceptions to the rule: mistakes, perhaps, or maybe they were put there for a purpose, or maybe they did some seriously weird s**t in their past life. So that each soul is meant for a specific thing, and if you put it in another thing, it feels off. A cat soul is the square peg and a human body is the round hole, you know?

I understand that is what some of them think. I don't agree with it. Further- such would be an affinity, not a state of being- seeing as how they are now part of human culture.  

[TeaDidikai]

Allow me to put it this way- what do you think would be the result of someone telling me that they are a G~ because they were one in a previous life?  

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

Picture for a moment what Reagun would do to someone who pinched him were he not wearing green on St. Patrick's day.

...

*shudder*

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But I have no desire to get into that argument.

I am a little confused though, Tea. I assume that your path is one that makes reincarnation a thing that is not specific to gender or species or anything like that. I think that may be the problem. My understanding of Otherkin beliefs is that for them, reincarnation is usually a species specific thing - cats reincarnate into cats and dogs into dogs and humans into humans, and Otherkin are supposed to be weird exceptions to the rule: mistakes, perhaps, or maybe they were put there for a purpose, or maybe they did some seriously weird s**t in their past life. So that each soul is meant for a specific thing, and if you put it in another thing, it feels off. A cat soul is the square peg and a human body is the round hole, you know?

I understand that is what some of them think. I don't agree with it. Further- such would be an affinity, not a state of being- seeing as how they are now part of human culture.

Being in a round hole does not make one a round peg. The idea with otherkin is that the soul doesn't change form just because the body does.

And would being a G~ really be an unchangeable part of your soul?  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

Being in a round hole does not make one a round peg. The idea with otherkin is that the soul doesn't change form just because the body does.

In which case- take into account the short lifespan of animals in the wild. When they reincarnate as said animal after they were eaten by their mother for being the runt of the litter- to they reincarnate as a dead live baby animal?

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And would being a G~ really be an unchangeable part of your soul?

No more than anything else. Which is my point.

Further- I have heard that some of the Lom say that once you are Rroma, you are always Rroma in your next three incarnations before your soul goes to "Heaven".

Now- this extends to the realm however that says "if you are Rroma, it is because you were Rroma."

Not a function of "You were Rroma, so now that you aren't anymore, you have entitlement".

cool  

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

Triste-chan

Being in a round hole does not make one a round peg. The idea with otherkin is that the soul doesn't change form just because the body does.

In which case- take into account the short lifespan of animals in the wild. When they reincarnate as said animal after they were eaten by their mother for being the runt of the litter- to they reincarnate as a dead live baby animal?

... A dead live baby animal?

Dead live? What?

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And would being a G~ really be an unchangeable part of your soul?

No more than anything else. Which is my point.

Further- I have heard that some of the Lom say that once you are Rroma, you are always Rroma in your next three incarnations before your soul goes to "Heaven".

Now- this extends to the realm however that says "if you are Rroma, it is because you were Rroma."

Not a function of "You were Rroma, so now that you aren't anymore, you have entitlement".

cool

Unless your species really is an unchangable part of your soul, and I don't see how you can prove otherwise, really. I mean, I think the idea of otherkin belief is that all that other stuff, like what religion and culture you belong to, is all part of the hole. Species, however, is part of the peg.  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

TeaDidikai

Triste-chan

Being in a round hole does not make one a round peg. The idea with otherkin is that the soul doesn't change form just because the body does.

In which case- take into account the short lifespan of animals in the wild. When they reincarnate as said animal after they were eaten by their mother for being the runt of the litter- to they reincarnate as a dead live baby animal?

... A dead live baby animal?

Dead live? What?

If you assume your past incarnation is more valid than your present, and your past incarnation was as a still born puppy dog- does that mean you are by your soul's nature a Stillborn Puppy Dog?

NecroKin! twisted

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Unless your species really is an unchangable part of your soul, and I don't see how you can prove otherwise, really. I mean, I think the idea of otherkin belief is that all that other stuff, like what religion and culture you belong to, is all part of the hole. Species, however, is part of the peg.

And how do you draw the nature of the culture out of the nature of the species?

~snickers~ I love the Lone Wolf mythology- so glamerous, so posh... so ignorant of what a pack animal needs to survive.