The Empire

[Everlasting Chaos]

Lt. Brookman

Giants? Bah! I'm looking for a pure Empire army, I prefer it that way, a strong theme, that's how I play these days.

A strong theme for the Empire IS taking whatever the hell you want. xd

And Daemon_King, the main reason why the Empire is so diverse is because we can hire virtually every DoW unit out there. I've got Smashy Giants, cannon-toting Leadbelchers, the regenerating Cursed Company, Arsnil the Dragonlord, anti-Bret Pikemen (so many Regiments of Renown to choose from there... xd ), I can even take the Armoured Orcs! And the vast majority of these units count as Special choices. That and the fact that I have the units needed to fill any role (infantry horde, shooty horde, cavalry horde, artillary train, magic-heavy, and a particular secret list that I have for the sole purpose of beating down the Royal Air Force ninja ) and you have something pretty close in diversity to the Tyranids. xd  

[Hoxtalicious]

Well, I always was a fan of Pirazzo's Lost Legion, pikes really do spell the death of cavalry. But I digress. I want something of a pure army in the sense that it's made up of all parent-list units and no outside meddlers, no matter how fizzy or woo-ing they may be.

Besides, I'm going for the Marienburg approach, which isn't even technically part of the Empire anymore ever since they turned into THE Netherlands of the fantasy world. I mean, why settle for coins with Karl Franz on them when you can have coins of mermaids with bare chests and happy fish?  

[Lethkhar]

Everlasting Chaos

Lt. Brookman

Giants? Bah! I'm looking for a pure Empire army, I prefer it that way, a strong theme, that's how I play these days.

A strong theme for the Empire IS taking whatever the hell you want. xd

And Daemon_King, the main reason why the Empire is so diverse is because we can hire virtually every DoW unit out there. I've got Smashy Giants, cannon-toting Leadbelchers, the regenerating Cursed Company, Arsnil the Dragonlord, anti-Bret Pikemen (so many Regiments of Renown to choose from there... xd ), I can even take the Armoured Orcs! And the vast majority of these units count as Special choices. That and the fact that I have the units needed to fill any role (infantry horde, shooty horde, cavalry horde, artillary train, magic-heavy, and a particular secret list that I have for the sole purpose of beating down the Royal Air Force ninja ) and you have something pretty close in diversity to the Tyranids. xd

As a man I once knew said,"Dogs of War are for those who don't know how to play their own army.".

He was undefeated, top of the charts at my shop, until he moved. He used Vampire Counts.

And seriously, does the Empire honestly need to be any more diverse? I hate Dogs of War. I don't use them. Never have, never will. Ever.  

[Lethkhar]

Everlasting Chaos

Lt. Brookman

On a similar note, if I have handgunners lined up in two ranks, does that mean that both ranks can fire, or just the front rank? I've been studying like crazy trying to get all the fantasy rules in my head but I can't seem to find the answer to my question above.

Wow, I can't believe you couldn't find the answer to that one. xd First row only, unless you're on a hill at which point the first two ranks can fire. Unless you're High Elf. I don't remember if they nerfed that rule or not, but last I heard their archers shot in 3 ranks on hills and 2 ranks normally.

REALLY?!?

Where is that in the rulebook?

Dammit my friend keeps cheating!  

[Lethkhar]

Everlasting Chaos

Daemon_King

Brookman, for an Empire Army I figured you would have a more artilery based.

And that my friend is why you would get your a** whooped by any GOOD Empire player. A good Empire army feeds off of that type of thinking, and uses it's kickass number of options to tear into you. xd I went against a Vampire Counts player the other day. He was expecting an artillary train and took tons of ethereals. I gave him a Wizard horde, complete with Dark Emissary. Tore a lovely... hole... or whatever... through those ethereals.

See my point?

I always expect a shooty army against Empire. Anything else against Khorne/Tzeencth would be foolish.

Wizards? Shut down by a s**t-load of dispel dice.

Close combat? Against chaos? Surely you jest!

I expect a shooty army. And if they don't bring a shooty army, they've already lost.  

[Lethkhar]

Lt. Brookman

Well, all guns and no stabby things makes Mac look like an idiot wont he? I can shoot, but once the enemy comes a-knocking in my face I don't think that rifle butts and grapeshot can save me.

Believe me though, once I get my mind into it, a Helblaster volley gun and another cannon will be the most likened additions to the army though. But for them to work, I'll need me some buffer first!

For the record: Spearmen SUCK. Don't expect them to win combat. Ever. They WILL lose. I'd take militia over them anyday. Or better yet swordsmen.

And hellblasters are awesome. They gave me an incentive to get some furies to use against my friend.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

Lethkhar

Everlasting Chaos

Daemon_King

Brookman, for an Empire Army I figured you would have a more artilery based.

And that my friend is why you would get your a** whooped by any GOOD Empire player. A good Empire army feeds off of that type of thinking, and uses it's kickass number of options to tear into you. xd I went against a Vampire Counts player the other day. He was expecting an artillary train and took tons of ethereals. I gave him a Wizard horde, complete with Dark Emissary. Tore a lovely... hole... or whatever... through those ethereals.

See my point?

I always expect a shooty army against Empire. Anything else against Khorne/Tzeencth would be foolish.

Wizards? Shut down by a s**t-load of dispel dice.

Close combat? Against chaos? Surely you jest!

I expect a shooty army. And if they don't bring a shooty army, they've already lost.

Yes... I suppose you would have to be foolish by taking a combat army against Khorne wouldn't you...? ninja sweatdrop

I find it funny that you say that and yet in the last game I played against such an army I went into combat with 6 Khorne Chosen Knights w/ Chaos Lord on Juggernaught and not only survived, but I won combat so badly that they broke!

As for the Militia vs Spearmen thing. I find the following:

Spearmen tend to be good defensive units. Unlike the Militia, they won't lose 2 attacks every time one of them dies. Downside is they HAVE to be defensive because they lose their spear advantage if they're the ones charging. Back them up with detatchments of Swordsmen or Handgunners and they'll normally do quite well.

Militia are cannon fodder. Throw them in the path of something big and watch the carnage. xd

Swordsmen are the good combat units. Take then against anything you actually plan on killing.  

[Hoxtalicious]

And thats why I want buffer. Let them come and poke the sticks into their own bodies, saves us the effort.

Every weapon and unit has it's use, don't go around shouting that they suck, they all have their use.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

And here's a good counter-argument to your whole 'if you use DoW you don't know how to play your own army' thing. The main point behind them is to give your army access to units that balance out their weaknesses. A while back I played against a Khorne Chaos player. It was a 1k pt game, and I had gone with a shooty army. The guy had hired a Cannon. Khorne with artillary. Fortunately I had some Pistoliers sitting around and quickly dismantled the thing, but if I didn't he could have become a major problem.  

[neo1592]

pistoliers are pretty sweet... I wanna have at least five in my army. I like that they get to fire their pistols in the first round of combat.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

neo1592

pistoliers are pretty sweet... I wanna have at least five in my army. I like that they get to fire their pistols in the first round of combat.

That's too bad, because they don't get to anymore. Or at least in about a month when the new rules are released they won't be able to. On the plus side they'll finally be able to fire both pistols while outside of combat. 3nodding xd  

[neo1592]

Everlasting Chaos

neo1592

pistoliers are pretty sweet... I wanna have at least five in my army. I like that they get to fire their pistols in the first round of combat.

That's too bad, because they don't get to anymore. Or at least in about a month when the new rules are released they won't be able to. On the plus side they'll finally be able to fire both pistols while outside of combat. 3nodding xd

Well thats cool I guess... their not bringing out a new codex are they?  

[Everlasting Chaos]

neo1592

Everlasting Chaos

neo1592

pistoliers are pretty sweet... I wanna have at least five in my army. I like that they get to fire their pistols in the first round of combat.

That's too bad, because they don't get to anymore. Or at least in about a month when the new rules are released they won't be able to. On the plus side they'll finally be able to fire both pistols while outside of combat. 3nodding xd

Well thats cool I guess... their not bringing out a new codex are they?

I think the Empire book is one of the first on the list, but in the 7th Ed rules pistols no longer work in combat. On the plus side having 2 pistols now counts as having 2 hand weapons, so Pistoliers still get that bonus attack in the first round. It's just not a pistol attack anymore. And as I said, having two pistols when shooting now counts as a 2x multiple shot weapon.  

[Lethkhar]

Lt. Brookman

And thats why I want buffer. Let them come and poke the sticks into their own bodies, saves us the effort.

Every weapon and unit has it's use, don't go around shouting that they suck, they all have their use.

(Sigh) I guess you've got to experience it to believe it...

Personally, I think militia make a good cheap counter-charge detachment for negating rank bonuses, rather than cannon fodder. They're not worth a cannon even shooting.

I would never use spearmen. I have never seen them win a combat, even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1. In fact, I've only ever seen them kill one thing, and that was a goblin. 1 goblin.

They always lose combat. They're not a good buffer. In fact, the only use I can see them as is as cannon fodder. Someone who hasn't experienced them too much might think them a worthy target of a stonethrower, who knows?

Swordsmen, on the other hand...  

[Lethkhar]

Everlasting Chaos

And here's a good counter-argument to your whole 'if you use DoW you don't know how to play your own army' thing. The main point behind them is to give your army access to units that balance out their weaknesses. A while back I played against a Khorne Chaos player. It was a 1k pt game, and I had gone with a shooty army. The guy had hired a Cannon. Khorne with artillary. Fortunately I had some Pistoliers sitting around and quickly dismantled the thing, but if I didn't he could have become a major problem.

Exactly my point.

Chaos shouldn't be using cannons. It's just wrong. Unless it's a hellcannon, it doesn't make sense.

What DoW is going to want to affiliate themselves with people who would just as soon kill one of their own as one of the enemy?

I mean, demons at least can't take DoW's...But since when do the High Elves or Dwarves hire goblins to fight in their ranks?

Giving Wood Elves a bunch of swordsmen goes against the spirit of the army. Give them a bunch of tough, hold-their-own warriors that fight in ranks, and you no longer have Wood Elves. You have a disgrace to the race.

If you can't deal with what your army offers, without hiring odd mercaneries that realistically would never affiliate themselves with you, then you can't deal with you army.

Every army has its weakness, let's keep it that way. If you use Dogs of War with your Empire army, you can't technically say that you play Empire, because you play a motley of randomly assorted races with some Empire.

Phew, ramble...