Abortion Made Simple

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Xandris

zz1000zz

Since nothing says abortions are a sin, we must assume they are not.

There weren't exactly a whole lot of them going on in Biblical days either. The more children the better. Where was the opportunity for this to even come up?

The Bible isn't a medical journal. The Bible accounts only for miscarriage with regard to the law, so it's not like the concept of stillbirth was foreign to the Jews.

As for abortion, though, I highly doubt medical science was advanced enough to know the intricacies of the womb and childbirth, let alone able to fully examine the ethics behind such a procedure. Since the Bible says nothing, God's will is open to speculation.

How does it go? "Justice is my Father's prerogative. The rest of us can only do what we think is right."

I wouldn't know what 'it' was.

Michael Demiurgos to the archangel Gabriel in Mike Carey's Lucifer comic series.

Now I understand. Still, one can't expect everyone else to recognise obscure references. wink Regardless, what does it have to do with the discussion?  

[Galad Aglaron]

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Priestley

The Bible isn't a medical journal. The Bible accounts only for miscarriage with regard to the law, so it's not like the concept of stillbirth was foreign to the Jews.

As for abortion, though, I highly doubt medical science was advanced enough to know the intricacies of the womb and childbirth, let alone able to fully examine the ethics behind such a procedure. Since the Bible says nothing, God's will is open to speculation.

How does it go? "Justice is my Father's prerogative. The rest of us can only do what we think is right."

I wouldn't know what 'it' was.

Michael Demiurgos to the archangel Gabriel in Mike Carey's Lucifer comic series.

Now I understand. Still, one can't expect everyone else to recognise obscure references. wink Regardless, what does it have to do with the discussion?

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.  

[zz1000zz]

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.  

[Galad Aglaron]

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

But we believe it all to be entirely God inspired. God dictated it, man wrote it down.  

[zz1000zz]

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

This in no way changes anything. God is quite capable of ensuring his message got to humans. It is most rational to assume his word is accurate.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

This in no way changes anything. God is quite capable of ensuring his message got to humans. It is most rational to assume his word is accurate.

Exactly. To assume otherwise is insulting to God. confused  

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

quick word her one: God did not write the bible his diciples did so there is bound to be some flaw AKA there was no abortion back then and they knew nothing of it. Two: abortion is like your grandmother knitting a sweater for someone you dont know if you were to walk in grab the sweater and tear it to shreds you had destroyed something that would make someone happy but instead you made your grandmother mad. Three: Human or not they have to become human at some point and correct me if im wrong (my bible is missing) but isnt there a verse that says he knew us when we were in the womb that meens we were human in the womb.

i hope this got my point through  

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

one: God did not write the bible his diciples did so there is bound to be some flaw AKA there was no abortion back then and they knew nothing of it.

There are records of abortions in primitive and pre-industrial societies (Wikipedia: Abortion [History of Abortion]). It is reasonable to assume that Bible writers did not include it in the Bible because the writers had little to no knowledge of this medical practice themselves or did not find it pertinent.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Two: abortion is like your grandmother knitting a sweater for someone you dont know if you were to walk in grab the sweater and tear it to shreds you had destroyed something that would make someone happy but instead you made your grandmother mad.

What is the significance of it being made for someone else and me not knowing?

A sweater is an object external to and independent of the body. I would not tear up the sweater unless said grandmother did not wish to keep it. Get a better simile.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Three: Human or not they have to become human at some point and correct me if im wrong (my bible is missing) but isnt there a verse that says he knew us when we were in the womb that meens we were human in the womb.

No it does not mean that.

For example, if I were to draw designs for a boat, I would know that product before I had begun to make it, while I was making it and after I finished making it. Said product is not human. Therefore, knowing something does not necessarily make that thing human.

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

i hope this got my point through

I don't know what your point was, but I'm assuming it was along the lines of "God does not permit abortion".  

[Galad Aglaron]

Fushigi na Butterfly

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

This in no way changes anything. God is quite capable of ensuring his message got to humans. It is most rational to assume his word is accurate.

Exactly. To assume otherwise is insulting to God. confused

Oh, is it? Then let us say that I have insulted the God of the Covenant and leave it at that.  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

This in no way changes anything. God is quite capable of ensuring his message got to humans. It is most rational to assume his word is accurate.

It is also rational to assume that man made mistakes writing it so that what was intended by God for man is not actually what we see.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

We cannot expect our moral judgments to have any degree of certainty. Only God, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and perfect can do that. We can only put forward our own limited, flawed, human perspectives.

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

This in no way changes anything. God is quite capable of ensuring his message got to humans. It is most rational to assume his word is accurate.

It is also rational to assume that man made mistakes writing it so that what was intended by God for man is not actually what we see.

I agree man could possibly have made mistakes in the process. However, I can find no reason to believe God would punish people for following what he has given them to the best of their abilities.

One can argue the Bible is inaccurate. However, that argument does not allow for anything new. As such, there is little value in it.  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

Priestley

zz1000zz

Galad Damodred

zz1000zz

God has provided his word so humans know his moral judgments.

The Bible did not arrive by fax from Heaven. Man made it as a record of tumultuous times.

This in no way changes anything. God is quite capable of ensuring his message got to humans. It is most rational to assume his word is accurate.

It is also rational to assume that man made mistakes writing it so that what was intended by God for man is not actually what we see.

I agree man could possibly have made mistakes in the process. However, I can find no reason to believe God would punish people for following what he has given them to the best of their abilities.

I never claimed He would.

zz1000zz

One can argue the Bible is inaccurate. However, that argument does not allow for anything new. As such, there is little value in it.

Doubt is new in this discussion. The argument for the possibility of errors in the text contrasts the view that the Bible is wholly accurate, adding to the Galad Damodred's claim that the Bible is not a facsimile (that is, an exact copy) of God's word sent from Heaven.  

[zz1000zz]

There is no basis to say the Bible is flawed, nor is there any value in doing so. One can propose it is flawed, but nothing is gained by doing so. As such, it holds no relevance for this topic.

If one simply wants to discuss the possibility of the Bible being flawed, that is fine. However, bringing it up in a topic about biblical issues implies one is applying the supposed uncertainty to those issues.

Either Galad Damodred's comment was completely off topic, or it was incorrect. I made what I believe is a reasonable assumption in interpreting it in the way that actually applies to the topic.  

[Gerbil_of_the_Vashness]

Priestley

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

one: God did not write the bible his diciples did so there is bound to be some flaw AKA there was no abortion back then and they knew nothing of it.

There are records of abortions in primitive and pre-industrial societies (Wikipedia: Abortion [History of Abortion]). It is reasonable to assume that Bible writers did not include it in the Bible because the writers had little to no knowledge of this medical practice themselves or did not find it pertinent.

usuing wikipedia as a source is a joke. wiki can be altered by anyone and everyone, making it an unreliable source (my college professors will NOT accept it). not only that but to assume that they had little or no knowledge of abortion is foolish since in those days people were versed on many things other than one or two trades because travelers would share news of other cities and towns wherever they went.

however, to say that the bible has flaws is also very upsetting. the bible wass god inspired and written by the hands of men, yes, however, the bible is still the most purchased book in the world because it is not only central to one of the largest religions in the world, but because it is still relevant to today. much of what the bible says can be applicable to present issues, including the old testiment.