Dreams, visions and hallucinations

[Hybrid Jewel]

As far as I am able to surmise, I am not stark raving mad. I often see and hear things in that state between asleep and awake. They first started with disembodied vioces saying vague things, blackness creeping down my walls, and vague figures climbing in through my windows.

At first, many of the things I thought I was seeing and hearing were ghosts or spirits. I have had them explained to me thus. I've also had them explained as a mass of my own thought-forms that "attack" me at night when I feel stressed.

Then, I discovered what I was seeing could be explained as hypnogogic hallucinations, basically explained thus: the body is awake, but the brain waves are basically the same or similar as those of sleep. The ones I absolutely know are hallucinations are the times when I see cameras in my room, computer menus popping up before my open eyes as clearly as if on a screen. Lately, these hallucinations have also involved vaguely menacing Gaia avis, so maybe I spend too much time here!!

Inexplicably, I tend to still see some of the less distinct and less ridiculous ones as possibly beling visions. One that made me actually feel comforted instead of paranoid, for example. If I believe most of them are hallucinations, should I not explain to myself that all of them are hallucinations?

Shouldn't it follow that either all of them have some sort of mystical significance, or none of them do?

And, yes, I have talked to a psychiatrist about my condition, though they've thus far had no answers for me.  

[TeaDidikai]

JulieDoc

I often see and hear things in that state between asleep and awake... Then, I discovered what I was seeing could be explained as hypnogogic hallucinations, basically explained thus: the body is awake, but the brain waves are basically the same or similar as those of sleep.

Which level of sleep. If I recall my enrichment classes correctly, there are at least four in addition to REM.

Also, without a way to see yourself from a third perspective, is it possible you're very much asleep and have entered an initial state of REM?

I did love those enrichment courses- they also pointed out that most people experience a number of REM cycles in a given sleep period.

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The ones I absolutely know are hallucinations are the times when I see cameras in my room, computer menus popping up before my open eyes as clearly as if on a screen.

I know what that is like. sweatdrop

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Lately, these hallucinations have also involved vaguely menacing Gaia avis, so maybe I spend too much time here!!

Tsk tsk.

It's not our fualt that the Nite/Dark items look better than the Angelic items.

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Inexplicably, I tend to still see some of the less distinct and less ridiculous ones as possibly beling visions. One that made me actually feel comforted instead of paranoid, for example.

May I ask why you believe them to be "visions"? And what do you consider a "vision" to be?

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If I believe most of them are hallucinations, should I not explain to myself that all of them are hallucinations?

I see no reason to assume such personally.

Mind you, part of my path is learning to have a clear understanding between that which is purely internal and that which is external and those which fall within the spectrum.

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Shouldn't it follow that either all of them have some sort of mystical significance, or none of them do?

Heavens no.

Case in point: Sacred Sleep is by nature, spiritual. The fact that people practice such does not make all of their dreams spiritual in nature.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

TeaDidikai

Which level of sleep. If I recall my enrichment classes correctly, there are at least four in addition to REM.

My sources are unclear on this point. The closest to an actual classification I've read is that the hallucinations appear just prior to REM sleep, so I'm guessing that the brain waves would either be analogous to REM sleep or to the stage just prior.

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Also, without a way to see yourself from a third perspective, is it possible you're very much asleep and have entered an initial state of REM?

It is possible, though the description of the hallucinations (particularly with them being played against the backdrop of a person's bedroom) is so apt, that it is difficult for me to think otherwise. These happen to me almost every night.

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Lately, these hallucinations have also involved vaguely menacing Gaia avis, so maybe I spend too much time here!!

This is neither here nor there, but most of the menacing avis aren't anything special to look at. Little happy people in t-shirts and jeans mostly. The menacing bit is that before I wake up completely and realize how silly I am being, I always get the impression that they are pointing me out, spying on me, or watching me. This, of course, is ridiculous. I just spend too much time on the computer, that's all.

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May I ask why you believe them to be "visions"? And what do you consider a "vision" to be?

The ones I believe to be "visions" are the ones I cannot simply explain away as mental regurgitation of something I saw during the day (the avis being a prime example of that regurgitation). Also, the "visions" give me a distinctly different feeling emotionally, sometimes a kind of nebulous fear rather than a feeling of being watched. Then, there was the one experience that actually gave me a sense of well-being, which didn't fit with the paranoia or fear caused by any of the others.

I see a visions as a higher power's way of trying to tell someone something important. Visions are just one way that a deity might might make information known. I think a vision also sticks in the mind of its recipient longer than an ordinary dream. It leaves an impression. Maybe I am being too broad here. I believe a vision happens while a person is awake, thought I have compared visions to dreams in the past paragraph. Otherwise, a vision would be no different than a prophetic dream, and there surely must be a difference, mustn't there?

I'm trying, really, but maybe not hard enough . . . . stressed

Then again, something a person's subconscious mind is trying to tell him or her might stick in the mind as well. That wouldn't make it a vision.

In any case, my UPG tells me that there's a reason we remember some dreams and forget others.

I hope you can pick out the sense in this long and rambling answer, because I'm having a hard time of it myself.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

I've heard of things like that in only connection with sleep paralysis, but I suppose it could occur without the paralyzed sensations.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

TheDisreputableDog

I've heard of things like that in only connection with sleep paralysis, but I suppose it could occur without the paralyzed sensations.

Yes, I have had sleep paralysis also, but it happens when I wake up, as opposed to when I'm falling asleep. It isn't nearly so common as the hallucinations, though, and I don't remember ever being paralyzed and hallucinating at the same time.  

[TeaDidikai]

JulieDoc

My sources are unclear on this point. The closest to an actual classification I've read is that the hallucinations appear just prior to REM sleep, so I'm guessing that the brain waves would either be analogous to REM sleep or to the stage just prior.

Which would put it in stage Four, or maybe between stage Four and REM, which would make it a dream.

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It is possible, though the description of the hallucinations (particularly with them being played against the backdrop of a person's bedroom) is so apt, that it is difficult for me to think otherwise. These happen to me almost every night.

Which could also be a function of the fact that your room is a familiar visual scape.

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The ones I believe to be "visions" are the ones I cannot simply explain away as mental regurgitation of something I saw during the day (the avis being a prime example of that regurgitation).

Without offence, I find that to be a poor definition of "vision".

I had a dream about an octopus last night. Hardly merit it as a vision.

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Also, the "visions" give me a distinctly different feeling emotionally, sometimes a kind of nebulous fear rather than a feeling of being watched.

Okay- I have to ask, and you shouldn't answer this online:

Do you smoke pot?

Also: have you ever been diagnosed with something like Aspergers?

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I think a vision also sticks in the mind of its recipient longer than an ordinary dream. It leaves an impression.

I have personal experience to the contrary, for whatever that is worth. To be honest, my usual dreams are much easier to recall than my "visions".

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I believe a vision happens while a person is awake, thought I have compared visions to dreams in the past paragraph. Otherwise, a vision would be no different than a prophetic dream, and there surely must be a difference, mustn't there?

That would depend completely on the person's tradition. In mine, there is no such distinction.

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I'm trying, really, but maybe not hard enough . . . . stressed

Don't beat yourself up over it.

Without asking questions, the only reaction you would get is "Yes, all your ideas on the subject are correct/wrong". Hardly useful really.

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Then again, something a person's subconscious mind is trying to tell him or her might stick in the mind as well. That wouldn't make it a vision.

It wouldn't?

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In any case, my UPG tells me that there's a reason we remember some dreams and forget others.

Mayhaps it is time you challenge your UPG.

UPG changes over the years as we learn and grow.

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I hope you can pick out the sense in this long and rambling answer, because I'm having a hard time of it myself.

It's useful enough.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

I actually can answer that question in public, because I don't smoke pot, nor do I smoke cigarettes or drink much (perhaps a drink once every two months). I don't condemn the use of either alcohol or cigarettes, but I am a weepy drunk and I don't want to be insufferable around my friends.

I don't have Asperger's syndrome, as far as I know. I do have mild cerebral palsy, for which I wore braces as a child and for which I was ridiculed until I entered college. Though my grades were satisfactory and sometimes even excellent at times, I was often referred to as "retarded" since I walk with a limp and have difficulty setting my hands down at my sides. I am aware that I should let the past go. Yes, there are many times I have tried to get over this feeling of inherently being watched or ridiculed, and I am seeking help for it. It is not nearly so easy as one might think, separating such ingrained feelings from my past into the present. There are reasons that I also take some exception to the idea of having Asperger's since it is a form of autism, and the term "autism" brings to mind my second cousin, who is nowhere near self-sufficient and who has been in a mental institution since he was a child.

I admit, I have some social phobias, but I can take care of myself physically. (Something I've heard some Asperger's patients find it difficult to do.) It simply takes more time for me to do things. I don't obsess over things so much that I am unable to get on with my daily life. I have various interests; whereas I've read that someone with Aspergers has only a few obsessive areas of expertise. I also have little trouble reading the emotions of others. If anything, I am oversensitive and over-empathic to such things, rather than having a deficiency in that area.

I also read that Asperger's patients can exhibit an exaggerated politeness or formality in their speech, or in my case, writing. If I may seem overly polite, it's deliberate. I try to be polite here especially if I am angry because far too many people lash out at one another immaturely on other boards. I would like respect as an individual and being reactionary is no way to gain respect. It's a one-way ticket to looking immature.

All right, enough of my whining, and enough of me spewing things on and on about myself that you really didn't require me to delve into. It's just, if I seem slightly offended at both the pot and the Asperger's question, I wanted you to know why. cheese_whine

Getting back to the subject at hand: As for questioning my UPG, you're right. If I don't, I won't grow spiritually. It's very possible the dreams that to me appear to be symbolic may be nothing but recurrent ingrained themes. There are points where the divine and the subconscious mind do coincide, I think.  

[TeaDidikai]

Asperger's has a number of symptoms and gradients. I asked because paranoia was a key factor in some of these experiences and both can make one paranoid.

Of note- many people with Asperger's are very functional. A dear friend of mine served in Iraq and has as many interests as I do.

My point is: if you had a diagnosis of such, or if you engage in activity that invites paranoia, it may have been a cause. I'm not a Shrink. I don't have a PhD in Psychology, and I don't pretend to diagnose people over the interweb. But it would have been relevant information.

That said, you did mention other things that can induce social paranoia. I'm glad you're getting help.

Do you think it is possible that these experiences are an expression of those challenges?  

[maenad nuri]

I doubt you have Aspergers. It's the new hip diagnosis.

Like Tea said, Aspergers goes in all directions. One of the main things that makes it different from Autism is that it is characterized by normal speech development. One of the things.

My twin brother hedges the line between Autism and Aspergers. Currently, he's learning to socialize again, working at a homeless shelter doing data entry, and starting to be their tech support guy. He's smarter than me. Most people with Aspergers are very "functional".

Also being said, Autism goes a broad spectrum in and of itself. There are those who can't take care of themselves or function in a way we consider normal. There are also college professors.

ASD is a big pedestal of mine. I've grown up around it, worked professionally with kids with ASD's, and well, as a co-worker of mine put it, I speak autistic.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

Sorry, that whole rant was a knee-jerk reaction. Tea, I didn't know you had a friend with Asperger's and if I've insulted you concerning him, I apologize. Nuri, thanks for your clarification.

They're likely psychological. After having given it some thought, I think they stem from my discomfort considering the house I live in. Our old house was bigger and I had a lot more space. The dreams were never so bad there.

The one "positive" dream experience involved purring cats and probably stemmed from how much I miss my own (no pets allowed here, I had to give him into the care of a friend.). It wa a little far-fetched to think that was some kind of vision from Bast, anyway. (Yeah, I know, as a deity, Bast is disgustingly popular among fluffies, but I used to work with her anyway. Not being a Kemetic reconstructionist, I may have had no right to, and currently, I've been in a kind of magical and spiritual void due to self-doubt, so I'm not doing any workings at this time .). Since I have a great affection for cats, it isn't surprisng I should have recurring dreams about them, or for them to show up in my "waking" dreams.

The more I think about it, the easier it is to explain.

Thanks.  

[TeaDidikai]

JulieDoc

Sorry, that whole rant was a knee-jerk reaction. Tea, I didn't know you had a friend with Asperger's and if I've insulted you concerning him, I apologize.

No problem.

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They're likely psychological. After having given it some thought, I think they stem from my discomfort considering the house I live in. Our old house was bigger and I had a lot more space. The dreams were never so bad there.

Seems reasonable.

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The one "positive" dream experience involved purring cats and probably stemmed from how much I miss my own (no pets allowed here, I had to give him into the care of a friend.). It wa a little far-fetched to think that was some kind of vision from Bast, anyway. (Yeah, I know, as a deity, Bast is disgustingly popular among fluffies, but I used to work with her anyway. Not being a Kemetic reconstructionist, I may have had no right to, and currently, I've been in a kind of magical and spiritual void due to self-doubt, so I'm not doing any workings at this time .).

One thing I have found when it comes to visions is there are two "feelings" I get.

One is a "Hoshit!" feeling. The other is a sense of Gnosis as to it's nature.

As for Bast- last I heard, she wasn't from a closed tradition.

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Since I have a great affection for cats, it isn't surprisng I should have recurring dreams about them, or for them to show up in my "waking" dreams.

The more I think about it, the easier it is to explain.

Thanks.

Welcome.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

JulieDoc

It wa a little far-fetched to think that was some kind of vision from Bast, anyway. (Yeah, I know, as a deity, Bast is disgustingly popular among fluffies, but I used to work with her anyway. Not being a Kemetic reconstructionist, I may have had no right to, and currently, I've been in a kind of magical and spiritual void due to self-doubt, so I'm not doing any workings at this time .).

Bast isn't from a closed tradition. Working with Her, whether you're Kemetic recon or not, alone isn't enough to make you fluffy, just like the mere fact of working with Loki isn't what makes a person fluffy--is Deo fluffy? No... It's when you show a blatant disregard for Who the deity in question actually is in favor of your own wish-fulfillment or trend-following or whatever that you will get your a** handed to you by Teathe deity in question.

As for the thing about Asperger's and pot, I doubt either was intended to be an insult--that's rather school-yard, isn't it? Just looking for more angles, more information about the situation. They are circumstances that affect your perceptions, and shouldn't automatically carry a positive or negative bias.  

[TeaDidikai]

TheDisreputableDog

Bast isn't from a closed tradition. Working with Her, whether you're Kemetic recon or not, alone isn't enough to make you fluffy, just like the mere fact of working with Loki isn't what makes a person fluffy--is Deo fluffy? No... It's when you show a blatant disregard for Who the deity in question actually is in favor of your own wish-fulfillment or trend-following or whatever that you will get your a** handed to you by Teathe deity in question.

Or it's followers.

An amusing story: About two weeks ago a Fluff who claimed he raped a girl for Odin's amusement got his nose bloodied (to say the least) by a couple Asatru who actually consulted Odin on it.

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As for the thing about Asperger's and pot, I doubt either was intended to be an insult--that's rather school-yard, isn't it? Just looking for more angles, more information about the situation. They are circumstances that affect your perceptions, and shouldn't automatically carry a positive or negative bias.

Bingo.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

TheDisreputableDog

As for the thing about Asperger's and pot, I doubt either was intended to be an insult--that's rather school-yard, isn't it? Just looking for more angles, more information about the situation. They are circumstances that affect your perceptions, and shouldn't automatically carry a positive or negative bias.

Are you saying it's school-yard to to insult someone that way (and hence something too immature for Tea to do), or school yard for me to take it as an insult? Actually, I did apologize about feeling insulted, and then did give the reasons why I felt so.

I try not to have my a** handed to me by Tea on a regular basis. It frustrates me to see how I seem to be buckets of fail at that particular endeavor. confused  

[TeaDidikai]

JulieDoc

Are you saying it's school-yard to to insult someone that way (and hence something too immature for Tea to do),

Anyone who thinks I am too mature to insult folks has never seen me angry. A well done flyting is good for the soul.

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I try not to have my a** handed to me by Tea on a regular basis. It frustrates me to see how I seem to be buckets of fail at that particular endeavor. confused

~Blink~ Ummm... I don't think I have ever done such. Nor would I say you have earned such from me to date. Unless there is a mule out there I don't know about.

Edited to fix typo.