Cultures and their Gods

[Hybrid Jewel]

Do you believe that no one really has the right to worship a culture's Gods except members of that culture, or perhaps, people try to reconstruct that religion?

Am I out of line asking?  

[EternalHearts]

As a person of Celtic descent worshiping the Greek gods, I do not feel that you must be of a particular cuture to worship particular gods, much to the chagrin of some of the Revivalists of various ancient religions.
 

[TeaDidikai]

Depends on the culture.

Some cultures- such as the Greeks, Romans and Norse had no prohibitions listed as to who could or should worship them and who couldn't or shouldn't.

Del and his lot outlined who his children were. The Kami are tied to their land and thus to it's people. The gods of the Celts were to be worshiped by the Celts- however one was made a Celt. Hinduism is built around it's caste system- being born outside of that limits one's dharma, a key function of one's call to worship.

YHVH outlined who his Chosen People were- he also outlined a practice for conversion.

There are metagenetic faiths. It's insulting to force oneself upon a culture that is closed. It is more insulting to remove aspects of closed cultures to fit into one's practice when the gods themselves have made oath or pact to prohibit an outsider from doing such due to a delusion of entitlement. It insults both the god and the people of the faith or culture.

Sometimes gods tell people no- that they aren't to worship them. Sometimes it is direct. Sometimes it is through long standing cultural tradition and inbuilt theology.

Culture Rape is something I am not above cursing someone for- but then, as they say, one cannot rape the willing.  

[TeaDidikai]

Perhaps I should also point out that having an ancestral heritage does not make oneself part of a culture.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

TeaDidikai

Perhaps I should also point out that having an ancestral heritage does not make oneself part of a culture.

Well, of course, people of many ethnicities have abandoned their cultures. (Most often due to the encroachment of the habits of the U.S. Homogenization. scream ).

Although ethnicity or heritage could be argued to give a person more right to reclaim that culture than one who was not of that ethnicity. It may not be a very good argument, granted, but it could be argued.

Plus, considering I have no idea as to my own ethnicity, it doesn't help me much sweatdrop . Considering your above statement considering Shinto, which I find fascinating, I find myself wishing I was Japanese (not for the first time, either).

Ah well, guess I'd better deal.

Thanks for your clarification. I was wondering where your viewpoint on this matter might be.

Anyone else?  

[Hybrid Jewel]

Really, this question wasn't just for Tea, although I knew she'd answer it. Does anyone else have something they think?

Beuller?  

[Hybrid Jewel]

JulieDoc

Really, this question wasn't just for Tea, although I knew she'd answer it. Does anyone else have something they think?

Beuller?

stressed stressed Ugh, I should have said, "anything he or she thinks". "They" is such common bad grammar that I sometimes forget I'm using it. My bad.  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

JulieDoc

stressed stressed Ugh, I should have said, "anything he or she thinks". "They" is such common bad grammar that I sometimes forget I'm using it. My bad.

Not to threadjack too much, but the epicene they (singular, indeterminate gender) isn't necessarily poor grammar. English isn't prescriptive, no matter what David Foster Wallace would like to say.  

[Noirkaze]

That is really hard to pin point....
Is it the culture that you were born into, one you may have been raised by or one that may even have adopted you? What if you didn’t grow up in a region where your, personal, culture originated? Is it defined by region?
What is the deity of those in a country? Would it then be popular belief of everyone there? I know growing up in the United States I don’t know if it would be “right” for me to claim my patron as I do. I wasn’t born in Greece nor have I ever been there. One day though.
Part of this was stated before. It does depend on the doctrine stated by the culture of that particular path. How inclusive they are to outside of their region. In the case mentioned before of the Shinto. Would it be right to adopt that path if you lived in Japan but was not born there? Or What if you were but are not Japanese?
I know I’m asking many questions but this topic got my brain rolling on the perspectives we kind of take for granted in some circles. Plus I love to see the reactions people seem to have.

What it boils down to for me is the same as what Tea said. It really depends on what that particular school of thought constitutes as valid. I’ve also seen many deities being worshiped by other civilizations under the same name. Look at Egypt and Greece.

I also don't think you are out of line asking any question so long as your intent is to learn. smile  

[TeaDidikai]

JulieDoc

Although ethnicity or heritage could be argued to give a person more right to reclaim that culture than one who was not of that ethnicity.

I disagree.

Case in point: I am both a P-Celt and a Q-Celt, by marriage and adoption. I have more right to claim said cultures than my biological brother who has as much heritage as I do.

Further- I have more right to claim it than someone who has more ethnic heritage than I do but still hasn't been accepted into the culture.

Quote:

Thanks for your clarification. I was wondering where your viewpoint on this matter might be.

It's also outlined in my Pathways Thread.

Noirkaze

That is really hard to pin point....
Is it the culture that you were born into, one you may have been raised by or one that may even have adopted you?

The culture you are accepted in and participate in.

Quote:

What if you didn’t grow up in a region where your, personal, culture originated?

If the culture itself is alive and well, and it welcomes you- more power to you.

Quote:

Is it defined by region?

Depends on the culture.

Quote:

Would it then be popular belief of everyone there?

People can and do take their gods with them- but within a closed culture- the culture is what is important, not the historical ethnicity.

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I know growing up in the United States I don’t know if it would be “right” for me to claim my patron as I do. I wasn’t born in Greece nor have I ever been there. One day though.

Not a metagenetic culture. No need to worry about it.

Quote:

Part of this was stated before. It does depend on the doctrine stated by the culture of that particular path. How inclusive they are to outside of their region. In the case mentioned before of the Shinto. Would it be right to adopt that path if you lived in Japan but was not born there? Or What if you were but are not Japanese?

The Japanese as a culture can be very particular. But I have not heard of a Shinto Shrine turning away someone based on ethnicity. Perhaps they do.

Quote:

I’ve also seen many deities being worshiped by other civilizations under the same name. Look at Egypt and Greece.

Congrats. You're a softpolytheist.

I personally find it insulting to assume that a couple traits make someone the same as another person.

I am not Nuri for example, simply because I am female and spend time in this guild.  

[Hybrid Jewel]

TeaDidikai

JulieDoc

Although ethnicity or heritage could be argued to give a person more right to reclaim that culture than one who was not of that ethnicity.

I disagree.

Case in point: I am both a P-Celt and a Q-Celt, by marriage and adoption. I have more right to claim said cultures than my biological brother who has as much heritage as I do.

Further- I have more right to claim it than someone who has more ethnic heritage than I do but still hasn't been accepted into the culture.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say it was a good argument or that I agreed with it, in fact, I pointed out that it might not be a good argument. Personally, I don't agree. I was just saying someone might try to justify an argument like that, that such a thing could come up.

I apologize for being unclear.  

[TeaDidikai]

JulieDoc

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say it was a good argument or that I agreed with it, in fact, I pointed out that it might not be a good argument. Personally, I don't agree. I was just saying someone might try to justify an argument like that, that such a thing could come up.

I apologize for being unclear.

No worries. Wasn't an attack on you. You just gave me a chance to list a good example to counter the suggested argument. mrgreen  

[Noirkaze]

Quote:

Shrine turning away someone based on ethnicity. Perhaps they do.

Quote:

I’ve also seen many deities being worshiped by other civilizations under the same name. Look at Egypt and Greece.

Congrats. You're a softpolytheist.

I personally find it insulting to assume that a couple traits make someone the same as another person.

I am not Nuri for example, simply because I am female and spend time in this guild.

In mythology there are a few stories about gods of a particular culture visiting other regions. I may not have phrased that well. Apollon flies off to Hyperion, the land of apples. This has been said to be Wales. I don't know. Dyonosos is said to have lived in Egypt.

I am not saying that Horus is Apollo because they are "Sun" deity.  

[TeaDidikai]

Noirkaze

Quote:

Shrine turning away someone based on ethnicity. Perhaps they do.

Quote:

I’ve also seen many deities being worshiped by other civilizations under the same name. Look at Egypt and Greece.

Congrats. You're a softpolytheist.

I personally find it insulting to assume that a couple traits make someone the same as another person.

I am not Nuri for example, simply because I am female and spend time in this guild.

In mythology there are a few stories about gods of a particular culture visiting other regions. I may not have phrased that well. Apollon flies off to Hyperion, the land of apples. This has been said to be Wales. I don't know. Dyonosos is said to have lived in Egypt.

I am not saying that Horus is Apollo because they are "Sun" deity.

I see. It would appear I misread.

Interesting- though I am curious as to the support for Apollo going to Wales. confused  

[Noirkaze]

Quote:

Interesting- though I am curious as to the support for Apollo going to Wales. confused

I will have to find it again. I may have locations wrong. It has been a while since I saw it last. I may have to go hunting in Theoi project.