Food for thought... The Goth / Rap thread

[GilAskan]

To begin, an opener-

Punk & Hip-Hop: Two Sides of the Same Coin

Despite arguments between fans of the two genres, it really can't be ignored how similar they are in origin and development. Both punk and hip-hop were developed in the late 70's. Both developed by inner-city teenagers (punk being the teenagers of London, hip-hop those of New York), from economically-depressed working-class families. Both largely began as forms of political protest. Both were loved by teenagers, hated by most adults. Both movements also exploded into dozens of sub-genres and regional movements. This is where my argument really begins...

Subgenres: Mirrors Still

Even as hip-hop and punk broke into many subgenres, the styles of the subgenres still remained similar. Post-punk was to underground rap, as hardcore punk was to East-Coast rap, as New Wave was to West-Coast rap. And so on, and so on. Every turn punk could take (such as the death-metal influenced grindcore), hip-hop could easily follow (with, in this case, the death-metal influence horrorcore rap). So, on a certain subgenre...

Food for Thought...

With the two genres so closely intertwined, it's brought me to an interesting possibility, a conjecture- Goth Rap?

And oddly enough, it's not all too impossible, if you think about it.

The key element of goth-rock? Bass-guitar. Rap has been using bass-guitar for years; in fact, bass-guitar is one of the only non-synth instruments still used by rappers. You see bassissts all the time in rap videos, from the Ying-Yang Twins to OutKast.

Goth's rhythm? Goth relies on a snappy, staccatto drum style. A style not all too different from the dance-beat used in much of hip-hop.

Goth's guitar? Extremely distorted, not too unlike the synth's of rap.

Goth's lyrical style? Purely poetic, and commonly abstract. As is with underground rap, the hip-hop equivalent of post-punk.

It's an odd concept, as I've said. But impossible? Hardly. The elements are all their, even if they aren't entirely arranged. Is it entirely out of the question to imagine a black-clad artist rapping about lost love, the futility of revenge, or the painful beauty of death?

Discuss:

- Goth rap - Possible, or not?
- Styllistic overlaps
- Cultural Similarities (note: both hip-hop and goth are heavily stereotyped by the mainstream)
- Would you listen to such artists if they existed?
- Have you ever heard of such music?  

[IY_and_MCR]

I'd be totaly into that s**t XD
I could see it not happening secessfuly is because of a public unwillingness. ("Goth-rap? what the hell does that mean" "Poser" "Can't spell rap without crap hurr hurr")
And a lot of people would think "Goth and Rap? I SMELL CORRUPTION OF THE CHILDREN" /Caricature

I'm in love with genra cross-overs and have tendancy to listen to music that seems picked at random, because of the inconsistancy.
And there's plenty of songs in mainstream hip-hop that make me think "Either more thought out lyrics being rapped, or just an insturmental version of this would be great".

Something sorta along these lines I could think of is Trip-hop.
With Portishead, Tricky, and Massive Attack.
But those make a person think more on the rock side, rather than actual rap.

So, I'm gonna hope that made any sense in any way XDD  

[GilAskan]

It made sense.

I think the key to getting it right would be vocal and lyrical, though. You wouldn't want it too "gangster", or people wouldn't consider it goth, just rap. At the same time, if it doesn't lean to some of rap's common themes, people may dismiss it as just goth.

Lyrically? I'd look to something along the lines of Immortal Technique's "Dance With the Devil"-

Excerpt

Cocked the gun to her head, and pulled back the shirt cover,
But what he saw made him start to cringe and studder:
'Cuz he was starring into the eyes of his own mother.
She looked back at him and cried, cause he had forsaken her.
She cried more painfully than when they were raping her
His whole world stopped, he couldn't even contiplate-
His corruption had succesfully changed his fate,
And he remembered how his mom used to come home late,
Working hard for nothing, cause now what was he worth.
He turned away from the woman that had once given him birth
And crying out to the sky cause he was lonely and scared,
But only the devil responded, because God wasn't there
And right then he knew what it was to be empty and cold
And so he jumped off the roof and died with no soul.
They say death take you to a better place but I doubt it;
After that they killed his mother, and never spoke about it.
And listen cause the story that I'm telling is true:
I was there with Billy Jacobs and I raped his mom too.

Dramatic without seeming forced. And with "street cred" without seeming cliched.  

[Nero PsyKoTiX]

I actually think it's possible.
Many rappers have been trying new stuff with the genre since its birth.
There's Necro and his death metal-influenced death rap.
Kottonmouth Kings and Corporate Avenger with their heavily hardcore punk-influenced style.
Mindless Self Indulgence with their industrial metal-influenced hip hop(for the most part, anyway).

To an extent one could say Twiztid and Vampiro's work tend to rely on goth-styled lyrical content.
Twiztid with some of their Green Book work, and some of the songs off their Cryptic Collection albums("Listen" being one that comes to mind at the moment).
I'm not saying such artists are goth in any way, just pointing out the influence.

I'd listen to those artists if they ever existed, as I'm actually a big fan of hip-hop myself(aside from most of the mainstream garbage they spill over you on the radio and TV nowadays).
Though I tend to listen moreso to Psychopathic(Except for ICP's post-Shangri-La work, as most of it is pure crap), Reel Life, and Psycho+Logical artists.

EDIT: Let's hope you understand ANY of this, as I just read over this and thought "WTF did I just say?!" X.x

 

[-Resurrected Writer-]

Though I often have a difficult time picturing Peter Murphy in the same spot with Slick Rick, I can see the musical styles combining.
... As for public reception, I wonder what would happen to the mallcore set if they ever caught wind of a genre like goth rap (considering that their whole musical code, as it seems, is "like everything but rap and country" rolleyes )  

[Nero PsyKoTiX]

-Resurrected Writer-

Though I often have a difficult time picturing Peter Murphy in the same spot with Slick Rick, I can see the musical styles combining.
... As for public reception, I wonder what would happen to the mallcore set if they ever caught wind of a genre like goth rap (considering that their whole musical code, as it seems, is "like everything but rap and country" rolleyes )

Funny thing is they say that, but then Marilyn Manson, who is pretty much God to them, has done many collabs with rappers.
Most notably with Eminem(and D12).

 

[GilAskan]

Nero PsyKoTiX

-Resurrected Writer-

Though I often have a difficult time picturing Peter Murphy in the same spot with Slick Rick, I can see the musical styles combining.
... As for public reception, I wonder what would happen to the mallcore set if they ever caught wind of a genre like goth rap (considering that their whole musical code, as it seems, is "like everything but rap and country" rolleyes )

Funny thing is they say that, but then Marilyn Manson, who is pretty much God to them, has done many collabs with rappers.
Most notably with Eminem(and D12).

I actually was going to add a long series of comparisons between mallgoth culture (which is what popular media thinks of when they think of goth) and gangster rap (which is what popular media things of when they think of rap). I wasn't motivated to make the whole list, but I may yet.  

[Nero PsyKoTiX]

GilAskan

Nero PsyKoTiX

-Resurrected Writer-

Though I often have a difficult time picturing Peter Murphy in the same spot with Slick Rick, I can see the musical styles combining.
... As for public reception, I wonder what would happen to the mallcore set if they ever caught wind of a genre like goth rap (considering that their whole musical code, as it seems, is "like everything but rap and country" rolleyes )

Funny thing is they say that, but then Marilyn Manson, who is pretty much God to them, has done many collabs with rappers.
Most notably with Eminem(and D12).

I actually was going to add a long series of comparisons between mallgoth culture (which is what popular media thinks of when they think of goth) and gangster rap (which is what popular media things of when they think of rap). I wasn't motivated to make the whole list, but I may yet.

I actually did a list sort of like that on a MySpace bulletin not too long ago.
Except mine also had the emo/screamo, "metallist", punk, and "techno" stereotypes.
If I find it I'll post it up for you. XP

 

[-Resurrected Writer-]

I wonder what stage names would probably be made by goth rap artists...  

[GilAskan]

-Resurrected Writer-

I wonder what stage names would probably be made by goth rap artists...

Tough call. I personally would guess that they'd avoid typical hip-hop cliches like "MC _______" "DJ ________" or "Lil' _______" "Young _________".  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

GilAskan

-Resurrected Writer-

I wonder what stage names would probably be made by goth rap artists...

Tough call. I personally would guess that they'd avoid typical hip-hop cliches like "MC _______" "DJ ________" or "Lil' _______" "Young _________".

Maybe something along the lines of "Wilted-rose Will"?  

[GilAskan]

Bump from relevance.  

[Eskimos are so gay]

That would be great...

and I like that you thought about it that much. It does seem much more feasible when you make those great points.

I don't think

Unfortunately, I can see a few things happening, the biggest being that people pass it off as being like ICP or music from Psychopathic Records and don't bother listening.

I also agree that it would probably take some influence from Trip-Hop, because that is pretty much the closest thing at this point.

Funny that I was listening to Massive Attack when I first noticed this thread. xp  

[Jinx Noir]

It would be possible, but I'm not sure it would fly with the fans.
I would probably listen to a goth rap artist out of curiosity, but I doubt I'd keep listening. I don't like rap. sweatdrop  

[Ametrin]

the strangeness

It would be possible, but I'm not sure it would fly with the fans.
I would probably listen to a goth rap artist out of curiosity, but I doubt I'd keep listening. I don't like rap. sweatdrop

Yeah, same here I guess :/

Even when I'm not a mallgoth, the disgust for both rap and most of country is true for me XD