Djinn

[Midnight Divine]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK:MEBI:IT&viewitem=&item=200077677159&rd=1&rd=1
While looking on Ebay, I found this piece, and it peaked my interest.
Do you think Djinn exsist as described in that auction?  

[blindfaith^_^]

Pretty ring. Its a shame the close up on the sides of the ring's detailing is blurry so we didn't get a good look at it I really don't know much about Eygptian myths, so sadly I couldn't verify or deny the claims. On the bright side, a quick google search with sterling silver and ancient Egypt finds that they are the first recorded people to use sterling silver for jewelry (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/sterling-silver-practical-beautiful.html)

The whole presentation is really too dramaific for my taste though. Intitally the seller claims it is centuries old and went through at least 35 years of "genie collectors". Later the seller states they can not be sure the age, it's aleast 35 years old, speculation much? I'd want a certificate of authenication from someone who actually has the ability to give it not this seller who can't tell me anything about the origins of the ring or the age.

I don't like the concept of a Goddess being obedient to a human. I think at one point in time when Cupid pricked himself with an arrow he fell in love with a mortal and was fairly indulgent of her and even then he had his limits. I can't think of another time any God or Godess has been even sort of obedient to a human, but my mythology is rusty and has never been vast volumes.

Are humans ever masters of a Goddess as this seller states one would be with this ring?

Again I don't know the mythology but is there such thing as a Goddess genie?

I guess what I'm saying is that while not qualified in any way to verify this information, I have serious doubts and questions regarding the honest and story of the seller. At the very least, this style of presentation does not agree with me.  

[IH_Zero]

Jinn are mostly a Middle Eastern thing, and I can't recall having found any references to them in my studies of Egypt. If it's fairly young, it could be a Islamic thing, and then I wouldn't be surprised if it was from Egypt.

However, I doubt this ring is what it's stated to be. The simple fact that she calls it a genie says the seller doesn't know their stuff. Also, jinn are not deities, as far as I know. Before Islam came along, they were not even considered to be very friendly. After the coming of Islam, Iblis ( Shaitan) is considered to be from the race of jinn. They possess free choice just as humans do, and probably wouldn't appreciate being shoved into a (rather cheap looking) ring.  

[CuAnnan]

Not in any mythology I'm familiar with.
Djinn are the fire people in Islam and various types of spirits in Arabic Culture in general.

If you check this person's personal page, they've been selling various jenie things for ever. They're a con artist, nothing more. They utterly sicken me. Probably buying the things for next to nothing at flea markets or new age shops and knocking the price up a couple o' hundred percent.

If it were within my power to locate this person, I would have more than stern words to say to her. Every single curse at my disposal, would be a good start.  

[Poisen_Lotus]

wait, I'm confused the seller's comment box has a bunch of comments from different buyer of the "genie" rings. What does she just have a bunch of these things lying around? Sounds a little suspicious to me, I think she's just a con artist.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Djinn are not dieties by most definitions.
Well, not exactly...
They were the remnants of the people (and I use the term loosely, as they are most certainly not of our species) before humans that dwelt on the Arabian peninsula.
They were reputed to live only at night and disappear with the light of day (this may have been their nature, or it may have been a result of their forfiet and loss of the rulership of the waking world in some ancient conflict, possibly between themselves.).
Some could shape fire, others could make mirages, yet others were shape changers.
There were numerous subtypes referenced in different texts, some of which ahve survived into modern RPGs. rolleyes
Some were merely amused by humans, others were actively malevolent.
They were oft creditted with spreading plague and insanity.

Binding these potentially useful entities wouldn't have been viewed the same as mucking with divinities.
It was more of a self rewarding public service.

I can go into a bit of Islamic mythology regarding these critters as well, if anyone wants.  

[Sivirs]

Fiddlers Green

I can go into a bit of Islamic mythology regarding these critters as well, if anyone wants.

Yes please! heart  

[Boadicia]

This person is either a con artist or just gullible. If this person is claiming that it was carved in Egypt thousands of years ago or was handed down, I would need some sort of evidence. Also, the Djinn are not in Egyptian myth. They're Middle Eastern. I think they may be in Islamic legends, but don't take my word on it.  

[Pelta]

Bah. I smell a rat. Cons like these make me laugh. Or cry. Or both at once. neutral  

[TeaDidikai]

You see this stuff a lot on eBay.
From "haunted dolls" to "G~ Magick Talismans"... it amuses me to no end, and I take a certain amount of pleasure in pointing the flaws of the back stories out.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Sivirs

Yes please! heart

Sorry about the delay... sweatdrop

Alright, first of all, as with many religions, there is canonical and there is folk lore. These are just some odds and ends I've picked up.

Whereas Humanity was crafted from clay, the Djinn were made from Subtle Flame. Many Djinn served Allah directly, as his Angels do. Unlike Angels, Djinn are possessed of free will and may chose their actions and allegiances. There is debate whether Djinn were made before humans, or at the same time as humans. Those legends that place them before humans account better for Iblis' actions... those placing them at the same time as humans not so much, yet they are more consistent with most Muslim creation myths.

Iblis was the right hand of Allah, yet he grew resentful, some legends place this as resentment for choice of a human to be Allah's prophet... others make it sound more that he was jealous of Jibral (Gabriel) as the messenger to the prophet... a final set (in an ironic twist the matches closely to biblical fan fiction) states that Iblis refused to bow before the Prophet for he, a creature of flame, would never lower himself before a creature of clay. Regardless, there was a schism, and Iblis ceased to be the hand of Allah.

As for the rest of the Djinn, as Sura 72 explains, some were righteous and embraced the words of Allah, others were wicked, and contested them. Some Djinn attempted to spy on heaven to gain greater knowledge of Allah's plans, but failed (other legends say they attempted to force entry). These Djinn were obviously not part of the group who served beside Allah's angels. It is also recounted that Muhammad was prophet to both humans and Djinn.

Djinn are normally invisible to humans, however, they can make themselves known. Their communities are thought to be mirrors of human communities with many similar traditions and institutions. As mentioned before, some Djinn are amiable and not harmful to people, others are malicious. Suleiman (Solomon), who was gifted with the power to speak to all things, had numerous Djinn allies and they, by most accounts, served him well. Some legends refer to him binding or otherwise abjuring baleful Djinn.

In summation, Djinn are something of a counter point to Humanity. Another intelligent, free willed species.  

[Sivirs]

Fiddlers Green

Whereas Humanity was crafted from clay, the Djinn were made from Subtle Flame.

So, what exactly is Subtle Flame, how come it's capitalized, and how is it different from just plain ole fire?

Thanks for all the info, it's awesome and fascinating. whee  

[Fiddlers Green]

Sivirs

So, what exactly is Subtle Flame, how come it's capitalized, and how is it different from just plain ole fire?

Thanks for all the info, it's awesome and fascinating. whee

Usually it is taken to mean smokeless fire.
However, given that Djinn are not normally invisible, it could mean a flame that cannot be seen, only felt.
My Arabic is not as good as it could be, and even then, given the dozens of dialects, it is hard for me to pin such words down.

Glad to share a bit of trivia, however, never accept my observations for a given, my sources may be flawed, and this is not my area of expertise.
There is plenty of interesting Islamic mysticism out there, for those with the time and inclination to hunt it down. 3nodding  

[ILuvEire]

AngryRobotsInc.

Jinn are mostly a Middle Eastern thing, and I can't recall having found any references to them in my studies of Egypt. If it's fairly young, it could be a Islamic thing, and then I wouldn't be surprised if it was from Egypt.

However, I doubt this ring is what it's stated to be. The simple fact that she calls it a genie says the seller doesn't know their stuff. Also, jinn are not deities, as far as I know. Before Islam came along, they were not even considered to be very friendly. After the coming of Islam, Iblis ( Shaitan) is considered to be from the race of jinn. They possess free choice just as humans do, and probably wouldn't appreciate being shoved into a (rather cheap looking) ring.

Djinn were actually one of my main focuses of learning, though nowI have set them to the "backburner" so to speak.

Ok, honestly the most informative thing I have read on Djinn was this book, the Akhenaten Adventure. It is a fictional childrens story (Afterall I read it when I was just that...a child.) However, in the back of the book there is a section on the history of Djinn. Look in the childrens section of your local bookstore, but I found my copy in the book section of Wal-Mart. Its by P.B. Kerr, its in the afterwords section (in the soft copy).

Are the Djinn comprable to the Sidhe of Ireland? Not as powerful as Gods, but more powerful than mortals? If memory serves, I have read about the Sidhe being trapped in rings or lamps or something...

And seriosly even if Djinn were deities, who would be able to trap a diety in a ring? Then if you go back there it was sold for 19.00 6.00 shipping and handling. If there really was a deity in there, it would have sold for...maybe thousands of dollars.

-ILuvEire-  

[Fiddlers Green]

Sulyaman (Solomon) was one who could work with Djinn, in some cases making allies of them, in other cases, using (accounts vary) Divine rituals taught given to him by Shem/Allah, or using secrets he had gleaned of their very natures and methods to manipulate them thusly.

In some texts, Solomon is transliterated to Suleiman, which is also the name of one of the Sultans of the Ottomans, which can lead to some difficulty in track legends of which belongs to which. confused