Social Pressures within Neopaganism

[Starlock]

I was listening to the most recent episode of Deos Shadow (and for those of you who are NOT listening to that podcast and have the connection speed to download it, you have no valid excuse for not subscribing to this magnificent podcast!!!! I seriously cannot recommend this puppy enough!!) and thought it would be ideal to post a topic relating to some of what they discused in the episode. What I'm going to say will make much more sense if you listen to the episode, so if you can, go listen to Episode #28.

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There are certain social pressures play within the Neopagan community (and would also apply more broadly to New Age/occult communities as well). Most of us know the drills. There are certain things that are just expected of us. Let's give an example; I'll base it out of the podcast for those of you who can't manage to download it.

A group of students at a workshop are doing an energy exercise. The instructor creates an energy ball that contains the essence of a particular object (unknown to the group) and passes that ball around the entire group. The instructor then will ask each person: "what did you feel?"

Most of us wouldn't think there's anything wrong with this. Yet instead of asking "did you feel anything" the instructor asks "WHAT did you feel." Subtle difference, but a world of difference; the latter confers the expectation that every person in that class, from newbie ot elder, felt something.

Well, what if you didn't? Would you say, "no, I didn't feel anything" when ten people before you were all describing things or make something up to fit the social expectation? Or if you did feel something, would you change your story based upon what others said before you?

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There are tons of things which could be discussed in regards to this topic, so I'm just going to go on a question spree:

How are the expectations we're setting influencing the nature of the community? When everyone else is talking about their patron deity, do you feel like there's something wrong with you because you don't have one? What about those threads on meditation and you just can't meditate worth a damn?

Does failing to meet these expectations make us feel like lousy Pagans? Have you ever felt that since you can't do this or that, maybe you shouldn't be persuing this path? if you did or didn't make a change, how did that turn out?

Where do these expectations come from? Are they coming from outsiders? From within the communities themselves? Some primal human need to conform to something?  

[Deoridhe]

Starlock

There are certain social pressures play within the Neopagan community (and would also apply more broadly to New Age/occult communities as well).

In a broader sense, there is also an assumption of wanting to share, even if the person leading an exercise states otherwise. At a New Age conference I go to yearly, one of the class leaders had us imagine something and then draw it. He stated we could, if we chose, not share the meaning behind it. One by one, they went around the room, showing and talking. It got to me, I describe the picture, then I stopped - refusing to share the meaning. He asked two or three times for me to do so as I became increasingly uncomfortable at his demands, and stated more and more vehemetely that I wasn't going to share my deeper experiences with total strangers. Finally he moved on.

I ran into a similar thing, ironically, in an art therapy class when we did the "make a box that represents yourself" exercise. I didn't realize we'd have to share with our classmates what was in our boxes. Luckily, the most important stuff was inside a second box within my box and was painted the smae color as the box inside, so was very much not obvious.

And now that I've likely brought up aspects not covered in the podcast... I'll pause. I'll have to listen to said cast tonight. 3nodding  

[Fiddlers Green]

I could tell the person what was in the ball...
But it would have nothing to do with feeling at all.

I mentioned once before how much it irritates me that because I am of a religion other than the big 5 I must automatically be a mystic of some sort.
I'm sorry, my faith doesn't have an integrated magic component wherre all the faithful are supposed to become Magi. rolleyes

The techniques I have learned that would let me interface with the Energy Ball are entirely secular.

Also, the disre to ahve a groups substantiate one's position is rather wide spread.
And is sad.
Ideals don't gain validity because the are widely endorsed.
The majority is just as capable of being ignorant and/or stupid as a minority.

Honestly, I'm an arrogant git, and that helps, alot.
What opther people think about me, or what I do, while nice, is ultimately irrelevant.
Ultimately, tis I who must stare into the mirror and live with myself everyday... not the other people in my town, in my order, in my gaming group, and especially not the other people who's only common ground with me, other than species, and occassionally nationality and gender, is based on what religions we don't follow. xd

Oh, and the fits some people pitch when I tell them something is either a Secret, or is none of their concern are priceless. whee  

[Deoridhe]

Fiddlers Green

Oh, and the fits some people pitch when I tell them something is either a Secret, or is none of their concern are priceless. whee

It's not nice to taunt me. crying I hate secret stuff. I want to know it ALL. And Odin would probably be down with me lying to find it out, too; it's just me that's not ok with it.  

[Vertigo_Kiwi]

I always feel left out of the whole "mystical" pagan scene. I can never visualize things or feel energy or whatever else is expected. I've never had a dream about any deity, or had any of those special experiences that people always talk about.

I don't think any of that makes me less of a pagan or less religious than anyone else. Just because "so and so" experiences things one way doesn't mean I have to be the same.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Deoridhe

It's not nice to taunt me. crying I hate secret stuff. I want to know it ALL. And Odin would probably be down with me lying to find it out, too; it's just me that's not ok with it.

I'm not taunting.
I attempt not to bring the matter up anymore... sweatdrop
However, I am sure you can find more localised (and reasonable) scholars to deal with...
And, as an added bonus, I doubt it will cost you an eye. wink  

[TheDisreputableDog]

I've always had the sneaking suspicion that I just suck at anything "psychic," whether it be shielding or seeing auras or what have you. Maybe I just haven't tried hard enough, maybe I haven't had enough practice, maybe I just haven't found a method that works for me--but it alternately seems like such a standard pagan thing to be able to do, or something that everyone says they can do but most of them are poseurs. So on the one hand, knowing I can't do it makes me feel un-special, and on the other hand, just admitting it saves me a lot of empty posturing.

//Shrug.// I'll figure it out or I won't, you know? It shouldn't matter what everyone else can or can't do. I can't play the violin; I'm perfectly content playing the piano even though I have violin virtuoso friends. But in terms of magical or paranormal things...I'm selfish and want to be able to do all these things that everyone else seems to take for granted. I don't have to hear four-leaf clovers sing, but I'd at least like to know whether I can shield or charge or raise energy--the things that I read and hear everywhere are the basic building-blocks of a magical path that I, apparently, suck at--and if not, how to learn, etc.  

[blindfaith^_^]

I have problems with this from time to time. Over the winter break, some of my friends and I met to do energy work and it was fairly basic relax, help prepare ourselves for draining times sort of thing. In our group I am seen as a particularly "sensitive" person. This isn't especially true, what would be more correct, is that when I "feel" something, it is very specific and eeriely accurate. I do not however, feel things all the time or even most of the time.

During one of our workings one of my friends swooned and had to sit down for a moment. She explained after the fact that the energies were just so much that she had been overwhelmed and certainly we must have all felt it. Everyone turned expectantly to me to verify this. Now what am I supposed to do here? It is a lose lose situation. On one side I could lie and say I felt the same thing but thankfully my training prepared me to better handle it. On the other side I could deny what she felt and have everyone think that it was invalid because as the "sensitive" one I should know.

At the end of the day I ignored the expectation and instead said that it must have been a disconcerting experience and could I get her anything. In this way I was hopeful to not have to admit to not feeling anything without making her feel that she was wrong. The subject was dropped, but it was still an uncomfortable moment.  

[Starlock]

Deoridhe

Starlock

There are certain social pressures play within the Neopagan community (and would also apply more broadly to New Age/occult communities as well).

In a broader sense, there is also an assumption of wanting to share, even if the person leading an exercise states otherwise. At a New Age conference I go to yearly, one of the class leaders had us imagine something and then draw it. He stated we could, if we chose, not share the meaning behind it. One by one, they went around the room, showing and talking. It got to me, I describe the picture, then I stopped - refusing to share the meaning. He asked two or three times for me to do so as I became increasingly uncomfortable at his demands, and stated more and more vehemetely that I wasn't going to share my deeper experiences with total strangers. Finally he moved on.

Interesting and a bit misleading on his part considering he said you weren't obliged to share. Perhaps there's a general expectation that if you're going to involve in a class of some sort you're going to actively participate more than what is usually expected in a general classroom setting. There's also that phrase "perfect love and perfect trust" that gets flown around a lot. More often this is in the context of a coven which will already be a close-nit group, but I think some of this spills over into the broader communities too.

blindfaith^_^

During one of our workings one of my friends swooned and had to sit down for a moment. She explained after the fact that the energies were just so much that she had been overwhelmed and certainly we must have all felt it. Everyone turned expectantly to me to verify this. Now what am I supposed to do here? It is a lose lose situation. On one side I could lie and say I felt the same thing but thankfully my training prepared me to better handle it. On the other side I could deny what she felt and have everyone think that it was invalid because as the "sensitive" one I should know.

Wow, that one's tough. Imagine the pressure that would be on people who are more well-known magical adepts; those who are more accustomed to taking on the role of instructor. I wonder sometimes if these people are really that sensitive or sometimes just present white lies to get their points across? Maybe the whole expectations thing goes both ways on the experience scheme. Many newcomers are expected to pick up on or know some basic skills but even moreso the elders are expected to be know-it-alls. Perhaps some of these elders can't meditate worth a damn either? whee  

[blindfaith^_^]

Starlock

Interesting and a bit misleading on his part considering he said you weren't obliged to share. Perhaps there's a general expectation that if you're going to involve in a class of some sort you're going to actively participate more than what is usually expected in a general classroom setting.

This expectation bothers me a lot for a couple reasons. One is that I think that listening and trying any provided exercises is "actively participating". Another, which has less context in this situation, is that sometimes people need time to digest and think things over. You can't just give me some information and expect me to spit out an answer seconds later. Such an expectation when dealing with complex or deeply spiritual concepts is an unfair one.

Starlock

Wow, that one's tough. Imagine the pressure that would be on people who are more well-known magical adepts; those who are more accustomed to taking on the role of instructor. I wonder sometimes if these people are really that sensitive or sometimes just present white lies to get their points across? Maybe the whole expectations thing goes both ways on the experience scheme. Many newcomers are expected to pick up on or know some basic skills but even moreso the elders are expected to be know-it-alls. Perhaps some of these elders can't meditate worth a damn either? whee

I often wonder this too. How much of a teacher or adept is really non-magical and all about knowing how to appropriate respond to ques.

Another thought I have is exactly why do people believe that having an interest in the "new Age" "pagan" scene automatically makes you sensitive to energies. One of my friends can't feel anything energetically at all and she is perfectly fine with that. Certainly an energy workshop isn't an area she should go to, but no one should expect because she has an interest in herb lore, that she can see aura.  

[Deoridhe]

Starlock

Deoridhe

Starlock

There are certain social pressures play within the Neopagan community (and would also apply more broadly to New Age/occult communities as well).

In a broader sense, there is also an assumption of wanting to share, even if the person leading an exercise states otherwise. At a New Age conference I go to yearly, one of the class leaders had us imagine something and then draw it. He stated we could, if we chose, not share the meaning behind it. One by one, they went around the room, showing and talking. It got to me, I describe the picture, then I stopped - refusing to share the meaning. He asked two or three times for me to do so as I became increasingly uncomfortable at his demands, and stated more and more vehemetely that I wasn't going to share my deeper experiences with total strangers. Finally he moved on.

Interesting and a bit misleading on his part considering he said you weren't obliged to share. Perhaps there's a general expectation that if you're going to involve in a class of some sort you're going to actively participate more than what is usually expected in a general classroom setting.

I did actively participate. I just didn't feel like trying to explain my psyche to a room full of strangers, especially since at other groups fo the same sort I had made people very uncomfortable by doing so and had to deal with a lot of flack for not fitting in. It gets old being told my experience is abnormal.

Starlock

There's also that phrase "perfect love and perfect trust" that gets flown around a lot. More often this is in the context of a coven which will already be a close-nit group, but I think some of this spills over into the broader communities too.

I do think there is an expectation of this, but I also think that there's an expectation that what is share will be shiny butterflies or those light grey shadows everyone can publically say they're proud to have overcome.

I tend to be a little more viceral.

At one such thing, after being pressured to speak up, I likened the exercise to cutting open your stomach and gluing your intestines to the paper. That was, in fact, how it felt to me. They didn't ask me to share after that, and the majority of the people in the room looking incredibly disgusted and afterward avoided me.

I prefer to not to that to a room full of strangers, but I will not lie to make them comfortable, either.  

[Aki Norikaeru]

The kind of place I live in, for the most part, has an odd view of new age, and pagan beliefs. For example if I tell someone I am pagan, I don't specify, I get either a bad look, or the typical can you do magic, see auras etc. The sad part is that right now my practice involves seeing how and why everything happened or will happen without magic, down to a thought a year in earlier. So I actually get remarks like I'm not pagan. That part is kinda humorous. But I'd just like to state I'm not doing all that well at it. sweatdrop So it kinda feels like I'm letting myself down, at least toward what seems like common expectations. Which seems worse than peer pressure.

(P.S. I do more common works but not as regularly as most people, and with much worse results because of it.)  

[CuAnnan]

Deoridhe

It gets old being told my experience is abnormal.

The vast majority of the pagans on the dublin scene are Wiccan or Wicca-light followers. There are a couple of CM heads and a few Aureates. I'm one of, maybe, five or six Gaels and I'm the only Mystic.
I can empathise.

Deoridhe

I prefer to not to that to a room full of strangers, but I will not lie to make them comfortable, either.

I quite liked the analogy.
Sounds muchly like what I would have said in the same position.  

[TatteredAngel]

Deoridhe

I do think there is an expectation of this, but I also think that there's an expectation that what is share will be shiny butterflies or those light grey shadows everyone can publically say they're proud to have overcome.

I tend to be a little more viceral.

At one such thing, after being pressured to speak up, I likened the exercise to cutting open your stomach and gluing your intestines to the paper. That was, in fact, how it felt to me. They didn't ask me to share after that, and the majority of the people in the room looking incredibly disgusted and afterward avoided me.

I prefer to not to that to a room full of strangers, but I will not lie to make them comfortable, either.

I'd like to second appreciation for the analogy. That said, the tendency towards shiny butterflies and all is one reason I have steered far clear from most pagan-flavored group work where I am. Since my experience tends toward the unsettling, and since my understanding of a great many things comes down to the decidedly not pretty, I just don't have a very easy time relating.

And for a while, failing to meet expectations did make me feel like a lousy pagan. Then I stopped calling myself pagan and stopped letting myself feel lousy for following a path I felt comfy on. Would I like a little more in the way of groups to interact with? Sure. But I'm willing to wait to find something without most of the pop-pagan pressure.