Hi, I'm having a Crisis.

[AvalonAuggie]

Said crisis involves my feeling spiritually lost and unable to experience any fulfilling connection to a system of belief.

It also involves a wish for a community I can feel a part of. I consistently feel, whenever I am on Pagan forums (lurking, generally) that the Pagan community in general is nothing but a bunch of pretentious, angry intellectuals who like to b***h at each other all the time. I don't even like writing that because my object here isn't to create conflict but to ask for advice.

What do you do when you feel you have no guidance and no real solid way of affirming your faith? As much as I'd love to have some sort of primary document so base my spirituality off of, I don't, and I am sick of reading anyway. I do enough reading in my everyday life for things that are not spiritual at all and it drains the life out of me. I am sick to death of source material and research and scholarly debate. None of those things give me any emotional fulfilment, which is what I'm looking for as a psychological benefit to having a system of belief.

So. I'd love some advice. If anyone's ever been in this sort of situation before, how you got over it, etc., things I should try to re-connect with my faith (I'm eclectic in practice but I haven't been practicing anything for more than a year, so I'm open to any suggstions). As an added bonus, I'd appreciate if advice didn't come in the form of, say, "shut up, stop whining, and deal with it" because that's really not helpful and pretty much lowers my opinion of online communities that much further.

um...yeah. Not even sure why I'm posting this.  

[jaden kendam]

I think one of the reasons that some of us can be seen as pretentious is that we know what we are talking about, generally. We also do not like someone raping religions while still claiming to be part of said religion or claiming to know about said religion when in actuality, they do not.

Anyways, to maybe give you some help. Have you ever heard the phrase, "sleep on it"? Sometimes the best thing you can do is just to not worry about your spiritual faith and to just let your mind and spirit do thier own searching while you are not consciensly thinking about whatever. Have you ever thought of asking your guides what they think?

Or, it could be that unconsciously you have decided you want more than just a mix of belief systems or maybe the Deities who do not fit that you might have believed in or thought you believed in have cut you off. From just about every source, other than happy go lucky, worship what you want people, I am pretty sure the Celtic Gods, if they were feeling nice, would do that. Or if you, for example, worshipped Loki and Coyote in the same fashion, my guess would be that they would not like being compared to one another.

Anyways, I hope you did not get confused by all of that. And if I have any information wrong about the belief systems I mentioned, would someone please feel free to correct me?  

[Vertigo_Kiwi]

Maybe you could try something completely new and different. That's what I did when I was in a spiritual/emotional depression (I guess you could call it that).

I was interested in Shakti paganism, but because I was recieving criticism about it -I decided to stop caring. I discovered something called Kemetic Orthodoxy and decided to take their Beginner's Course. Again, it wasn't something I thought I would believe in (I just took the course in an attempt to revive my spirituality) but it turns out I might actually convert to it.

edit: I know what you mean by the pretentiousness. I believe it's nobody's fault but their own if they haven't learned to be nice and intelligent at the same time.  

[maenad nuri]

I can understand that the research can be unfufilling. It's part of my beliefs to do it, but it doesn't beat actual practice, or talking to people with similar beliefs. And I'm lucky enough to have found a few people in the Hellenic community worth talking too, who don't care that I'm not recon anymore, etc.

But when i feel unable to connect, I find something new that's full of pyschodrama. It helps that I usually devote myself to Dionysos, who is immensely connectable if you can let go, but my latest thing has been in doing the new. Lately, its been sacred dance and mandala's. It involved a tiny bit of research ( I think the entire part of the dance was an article in either newwitch or pangaia, and scouring for good music ).

Hey Kiwi! Whats the Shakti paganism of which you speak, seems interesting!  

[Vertigo_Kiwi]

Nuri

Hey Kiwi! Whats the Shakti paganism of which you speak, seems interesting!

Basically, I was really interested in Hinduism so I was looking into a tradition called Shakti Wicca. (if I had my choice it'd be called Shakti Paganism)

It's basically a belief that blends the two together, though personally I saw much more emphasis on Hinduism/Shaktism than I did on Wicca.

And actually, now that I've looked back on the website I used to go to (http://shaktiwicca.tripod.com/index.html) the only real connection I can see between the two is:
"An IndoWiccan interpritation of the Wheel of the Year is utilized that places the Wiccan holidays in an Indo-centric context. "

and "The God and Goddess of Wicca are parallel to and invisioned as the dance of Shiva-Shakti in the Hindu cosmology."

Anyways, I've basically abandoned my interest in that belief and have moved on to other things.  

[jaden kendam]

Vertigo_Kiwi

Nuri

Hey Kiwi! Whats the Shakti paganism of which you speak, seems interesting!

Basically, I was really interested in Hinduism so I was looking into a tradition called Shakti Wicca. (if I had my choice it'd be called Shakti Paganism)

It's basically a belief that blends the two together, though personally I saw much more emphasis on Hinduism/Shaktism than I did on Wicca.

And actually, now that I've looked back on the website I used to go to (http://shaktiwicca.tripod.com/index.html) the only real connection I can see between the two is:
"An IndoWiccan interpritation of the Wheel of the Year is utilized that places the Wiccan holidays in an Indo-centric context. "

and "The God and Goddess of Wicca are parallel to and invisioned as the dance of Shiva-Shakti in the Hindu cosmology."

Anyways, I've basically abandoned my interest in that belief and have moved on to other things.

Well, how nice of them to rape both religions to suit thier own ideas. How is The God and Goddess the same as Shiva-Shakti?

Anyways, I do not want to rant, so I will end it there.  

[Vertigo_Kiwi]

jaden kendam

Vertigo_Kiwi

Nuri

Hey Kiwi! Whats the Shakti paganism of which you speak, seems interesting!

Basically, I was really interested in Hinduism so I was looking into a tradition called Shakti Wicca. (if I had my choice it'd be called Shakti Paganism)

It's basically a belief that blends the two together, though personally I saw much more emphasis on Hinduism/Shaktism than I did on Wicca.

And actually, now that I've looked back on the website I used to go to (http://shaktiwicca.tripod.com/index.html) the only real connection I can see between the two is:
"An IndoWiccan interpritation of the Wheel of the Year is utilized that places the Wiccan holidays in an Indo-centric context. "

and "The God and Goddess of Wicca are parallel to and invisioned as the dance of Shiva-Shakti in the Hindu cosmology."

Anyways, I've basically abandoned my interest in that belief and have moved on to other things.

Well, how nice of them to rape both religions to suit thier own ideas. How is The God and Goddess the same as Shiva-Shakti?

Anyways, I do not want to rant, so I will end it there.

That's why I'm thinking I should have just PM'd Nuri about it instead of posting here.

I'll apologize now for any thread hijacking which might take place  

[Neko_Bast]

AvalonAuggie- My advice to you is to practice. If you'r eclectic by nature, than practice what feels right to you. Meditate, pray to your gods, and stop worring about wether or not you are right. In my serch for info on my goddess, Bast, I have finaly had to just do what felt right. Because in the end there was no info I could find on how to worship her "corectly." If you can't find a fulfilling connection to any paticular system of belief, then create your own.  

[Deoridhe]

AvalonAuggie

Said crisis involves my feeling spiritually lost and unable to experience any fulfilling connection to a system of belief.

This may not be a temporary situation. Firstly, I recommend taking a large step back, a big breath of air, and saying, "It's ok if I'm lost." Seriously, it is. Being lost is, I think, part of being human.

AvalonAuggie

It also involves a wish for a community I can feel a part of.

What are the characteristics of the community you want? How does that community resolve conflicts? What actions do people of the community take and what are their motivations? What does the community you want feel, look, and taste like?

Intellectual debate and disagreement is a part of human interaction, fwiw. Personally, I enjoy a community where one can disagree with others. I wouldn't be half as comfortable with my friends if I thought I needed to agree with them in order for us to BE friends.

AvalonAuggie

What do you do when you feel you have no guidance and no real solid way of affirming your faith?

I'm not a good person to answer this question; I have never lost faith. I don't, however, seek affirmation for it, either. It just is. I'm afraid you won't find this terribly helpful, though.

AvalonAuggie

As much as I'd love to have some sort of primary document so base my spirituality off of, I don't, and I am sick of reading anyway. I do enough reading in my everyday life for things that are not spiritual at all and it drains the life out of me. I am sick to death of source material and research and scholarly debate. None of those things give me any emotional fulfilment, which is what I'm looking for as a psychological benefit to having a system of belief.

It sounds like you need to seek the gods, whichever they are, more directly. You might also want to consider an established religion where you can be lead by those who enjoy scholarly research. Not all people are cut out for debate and intellectual discovery; many just want to be part of a group and feel the presence of spiritual beings and gods. That might be where you find yourself.

AvalonAuggie

So. I'd love some advice. If anyone's ever been in this sort of situation before, how you got over it, etc., things I should try to re-connect with my faith (I'm eclectic in practice but I haven't been practicing anything for more than a year, so I'm open to any suggstions).

I don't know what your faith is, so I haven't the foggiest idea how you can reocnnect with it. Can you share what you did and what gods you sought before? What were your rituals like? Also, what activities do make you feel activated and energetic? What do you spend your spare time doing that you enjoy? When and where do you feel the most alive?  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

I share your grief. I get so tired of reading one thing, then haveing many people counter it, then haveing someone defend what you've just read. I find myself almost not reading anything because I don't know what sources can be trusted and what is full of crap.

When it comes to community, I know where to find a pagan community (consisting of many different faiths), my fustration is I can't get to it. My favorate metaphysical store not only has bellydanceing classes, which I'd love to participate in, but also hosts a drum circle on the beach on the saturday closest to the full moon every month (Florida weather permiting). Of course, me, haveing no reliable mode of transportation, and not at the moment haveing suffient (sp?) funds can do neither.

Don't feel alone, sometimes we just gotta work through the muck to get at the gold. xd  

[Deoridhe]

Dragon_Witch_Woman

I find myself almost not reading anything because I don't know what sources can be trusted and what is full of crap.

If you want accurate, start with scholarly to give you a feel for history and work out. Or find osmeone willing to do it for you, but then you have to trust them.

I tend to do a bit of research into a lot of things. For example, I studied Ceremonial Magick long enough to both realize I wasn't interested and long enough to recognize it's basic structure and history; now when presented with CM I can tell who's blowing smoke and who isn't. A basic comprehension of history helps, too. And remembering that terms like "pagan" and "Native American" are ultimately inaccurate; if someone can't give you the specifics of where they got what they do, don't trust it.

It can seem overwhelming at first because there's a lot of information, but the information comes in patterns.  

[T-kal Thornside]

You should go to Chaos Magick. It gets pretty fun.  

[TeaDidikai]

AvalonAuggie

Said crisis involves my feeling spiritually lost and unable to experience any fulfilling connection to a system of belief.

I'm curious, what should it feel like?

Sometimes I wonder how much of this "lost" feeling is not really an absence of connection- but a confusion of ideals with reality.

Quote:

It also involves a wish for a community I can feel a part of. I consistently feel, whenever I am on Pagan forums (lurking, generally) that the Pagan community in general is nothing but a bunch of pretentious, angry intellectuals who like to b***h at each other all the time.

I really need to make that icon using the gift Nuri got me.

That aside- I highly recommend you read that piece Nuri posted ages ago about the Pagan Scene.

Quote:

I don't even like writing that because my object here isn't to create conflict but to ask for advice.

You seem to be doing a good job of asking.
whee

Quote:

What do you do when you feel you have no guidance and no real solid way of affirming your faith?

I start to chuckle. Usually out of frustration.

The fact of the matter is- all of us, from the unflappable Deo, to the ecstatic and beautiful Nuri, to the hot tempered and traditionalist Reagun- all of our faiths are by nature, non-falsifiable.

We cannot prove our experiences are more than ourselves chittering in our own heads and a handful of co-incidences.

That said- they are our experiences. Could I be delusional? Is it possible that my knowledge is mere illusion? By the very nature of what a mystic experience is- the answer is yes.

Myself, I despise Pascal’s Wager, however- for those who already have faith, gnosis or both- a variation there of is the lifestyle that we have chosen (or that has chosen us).

Quote:

As much as I'd love to have some sort of primary document so base my spirituality off of, I don't, and I am sick of reading anyway. I do enough reading in my everyday life for things that are not spiritual at all and it drains the life out of me.

Then- might I suggest seeking out an oral tradition? No snark intended. I am dyslexic as hell and I make a poor book-learner. The dynamic of conversation with those who know more is much more to my tastes.

But even that aside- if you have no intention of taking from those texts, there isn't anything wrong with "doing your own thing", within the bounds of ethical behavior on the terms that the gods set out.

Quote:

I am sick to death of source material and research and scholarly debate. None of those things give me any emotional fulfilment, which is what I'm looking for as a psychological benefit to having a system of belief.

This might also be a problem unto itself.

"...a psychological benefit to having a system of belief" presupposes that such will be found within a faith. If you are looking for the gods to contact you because you wish to use them as a tool to ease your mind, you may be looking for a relationship with them they are not looking to have with you.

Quote:

As an added bonus, I'd appreciate if advice didn't come in the form of, say, "shut up, stop whining, and deal with it" because that's really not helpful and pretty much lowers my opinion of online communities that much further.

To be honest- it's this kind of barb that draws such a reaction to begin with.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Thanks for the replies, all.

Jaden, yes, I did in fact sleep on it. I always keep track of dreams I remember, whether they have some sort of symbolic importance or are just exceptionally entertaining. My dream last night involved, I think, getting into a fight at someone else's party, after which I was in some form of the underworld where I was working as Abraham Lincoln's secretary, but when I got off work I started hitting on John Wilkes Booth. Oh, and then I was in the mob, and bunch of burly Italian guys and I were beating up someone who'd ratted out the boss. I'm not at all sure if any of that has any extra meaning other than I am rather crazy.

Deoridhe: My longing for community is really very vague, but to break it down into two parts I feel like 1) I can't relate to most of the Pagan community in general (online and IRL) and 2) I would like to if not find, at least know that there are people out there who have some sort of belief structure similar to my own so I can feel like my own beliefs aren't completely unreasonable.

I used to enjoy researching religious information, and it didn't matter which religion. I just liked learning about what people believe and why and how they reflect that in their lives. Of course now, after almost four years of being a History major (and I'm still not going to graduate on time), the very mention of research or intellectual debate makes me want to vomit. Historians have come to piss me off, because so much of what I have to read every day are ridiculously argumentative articles. I have never understood why the study of the past must revolve around picking a side, or a belief, and then spending your life reading and writing until you're figuratively blue in the face about how you are right and everyone else who has ever studied the subject is wrong. I don't think in absolutes like that, and having to write in this way (I hate coming up with theses. absolute worst part of my scholastic career) makes me hate myself. So really, I've grown to develop intensely negative associations with research and debate.

As for my own "system" of beliefs, because good lord I can be painfully vague a lot of the time, I primarily identify with animism. That's how I view the universe; if I come across something with a spirit and a personality which awes me and commands attention, I'll honor it. I'm writing a novel in my spare time because (in a roundabout way) Lake Michigan demanded I recognize it.

Because I see myself as an animist, and because my own ancestry is a source of much focus and frustration for me, I wanted to have a belief system which reflected my cultural lineage. This is both to honor my ancestors and be more at peace with myself. The problem with this is that my cultural lineage is mixed, for lack of a better word, and if I had the time and energy to conduct a lot of research, constructing a real solid system of practice would require some combination or synthesis of traditions from pre-Christian Britain and the general area of Sierra Leone. And perhaps eventually, if I'm able to stop hating the world of scholarly research so much, I'll be able to do that.

For now, though, it's a lot easier to honor my heritage more in terms of common humanity, which is why the closest thing I have to a "patron" deity is the ancestral spirit of Mitochondrial Eve. She's proven rather difficult to worship, being something of a generalized concept of humanity, but mostly I connect through visual creative arts because that's what I'm best at. For guidance and figuring out the jumble in my own head I used to meditate, read Tarot, and do a bit of shamanic journeying. Holiday observance has been difficult to figure out, but in a perfect world I would do something to mark the summer and winter solstices, and I've been trying to figure out a three-day observance around the Day of the Dead as a major holiday.

In my spare time, I get my community connection and shared worship kicks by being an obsessive fan of things like Broadway musicals. Which, strangely, has been the source of my most major spiritual experience in recent memory, and has in a way confirmed that there is some power out there with a plan for me. It's just really nerdy and embarassing, getting epiphanies from showtunes.

TeaDidikai

"...a psychological benefit to having a system of belief" presupposes that such will be found within a faith. If you are looking for the gods to contact you because you wish to use them as a tool to ease your mind, you may be looking for a relationship with them they are not looking to have with you.

I'm not so much looking for the gods to contact me because I don't subscribe to that kind of polytheism. Unless I directly experience interaction with them or messages from them, the "gods" exist as psychological concepts and archetypes, and humans have religion as a way of explaining and understanding the world, and acheiving peace of mind. I try to be open to signs. if Apollo makes himself known to me and tells me to worship him, I'll do it, but in the meantime I'd like to be happy in a general "having religion makes people feel better about themselves" way.  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

Deoridhe

Dragon_Witch_Woman

I find myself almost not reading anything because I don't know what sources can be trusted and what is full of crap.

If you want accurate, start with scholarly to give you a feel for history and work out. Or find osmeone willing to do it for you, but then you have to trust them.

I tend to do a bit of research into a lot of things. For example, I studied Ceremonial Magick long enough to both realize I wasn't interested and long enough to recognize it's basic structure and history; now when presented with CM I can tell who's blowing smoke and who isn't. A basic comprehension of history helps, too. And remembering that terms like "pagan" and "Native American" are ultimately inaccurate; if someone can't give you the specifics of where they got what they do, don't trust it.

It can seem overwhelming at first because there's a lot of information, but the information comes in patterns.

Thank you, that helps alot. I love history, so it shouldn't be to overwelming xd .