Preta-natural Awareness & the Pragmatic Application of Faith

[TeaDidikai]

Or

Psychic Awareness and Magic

Now- within the context of having sensory perception beyond the five senses, a lot of the more down to earth folks I know point out that everyone has the potential for the use of senses beyond this and like any other skill, some people simply do not develop it.

As a function of the Pagan scene- overall there aren't a whole lot of prohibitions against using such where as some faiths misrepresent scripture to say that "all things psychic are prohibited". This being the case, there are a lot of pagans who are interested in Uber-Cool Psychic Powers ™.

I do however contest one assertion I hear often in the scene. Not everyone has the potential for such talents. In my work in the community, I have met people who are now and always will be def and blind in the psychic sense. No amount of instruction will change this.

So there is one talking point. The second would be this:

Do you feel that awareness beyond the five senses benefits you on your path as a) A function of Faith and/or b) Giving you a tool to better apply the pragmatic aspects of faith including but not limited to working with different forces to supplement the real world efforts you make in your daily life?  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Do you feel that awareness beyond the five senses benefits you on your path as A) A function of Faith and/or B) Giving you a tool to better apply the pragmatic aspects of faith including but not limited to working with different forces to supplement the real world efforts you make in your daily life?

This is an interesting question. I have been able to sence and see ghosts/spirits long befor I ever started looking into paganism (from the age of five). Although the fact that I could see them is one of the reasons I got interested in Wichcraft.

In some ways I would have to say both. As a function of faith, my ability helps me sence my gods and other energies that I work with. At the same time my ability is not only limited to when I'm doing rituals. I always sence or see ghosts/spirits if they are around.  

[TatteredAngel]

Ooh, this is kind of a mixed bag for me. Let me start off by saying that I am not very psychically sensitive at all. I'm not a natural, I'm not likely to become fantastic with it, and sometimes working on it flat out hurts. I'm not yet sure it's a lost cause and I'm an obstinate creature if nothing else, so I continue to work at it.

So as a tool, it's something hard to use and not something I can necessarily do easily or lightly. Basically, really hard to just do as part of daily life. If something crops up and says "hey notice me!" that's fine, but I don't generally make it a part of my day. Will it be a benefit to me in a more everyday sense if I can ever get a better handle on it? Sure, since I always figure a better grasp over sensory information of all sorts is pretty much a good thing.  

[CuAnnan]

This raises an issue.
I consider myself a reactive empath, distinguised from a passive empath.
This is not a psychic thing. It has nothing to do with the psyche. It has to do with empathetic resonance, the core of my magic system.

I have absolutely no more psychic ability than your average bottle of coke. My sisters have it and my dad has it. They can sit at a table and hold a conversation with looks and gestures. I can pick up, from the looks and gestures, vague ideas of what's being said.  

[Molly Mollusca]

I don't believe in the "Oh, all you have to do is train it and you can have Mega Cool Powers!" neutral

In my eyes it is like any other talent. Take drawing for instance. That is a talent right? Everybody can draw. Really they can. 3nodding
However... How good they are or will be will have to do with the amount of talent and/or hard work. Some people will never get past the stickmenfase and others are instant Michelanglo's, while others have to work very hard to keep up and make the most of their limited drawing talents. (Like me... redface ) They all can draw, but the quality is different.

Now, I confess, I have no real big talents in the esoteric arts. Except maybe the pathworkings and meditations. I think I could train my butt off to try to read the chrystal bol for example, but I would get nothing, nothing noteworthy stare . I could make it better probably... But only for a little bit. Maybe in time I could get clouds! 4laugh (Instead of the normal everyday reflections.)  

[maenad nuri]

I have no idea if I have any talents. If I do, they lie right beyond my attention span. Which sort of sucks.  

[Kal Eldritch]

For me, the ability to sense things outside of a "normal" spectrum is faith. I'm one of those people who question every little thing that is thrown at me. "Believe in a diety!" How do I know said diety exists? "Just have faith!" That blows it for me. My senses and what I percieve determine what I do and do not believe in for the most part, so any sort of extra-sensory affirmation boosts my gullibility level up a notch, which in turn will make me have faith in something.

The short answer is: For a skeptic like me, if I can see it, feel it, or percieve it, I will have faith that it exists.

Really quite bad for me, since I almost have no "tallent" and I can't hold onto a stick for two seconds without pretending I'm fighting some idiot who thinks he's better than me.  

[in the flicker.]

i agree: some people are just not "extra-sensory" (as i've heard it called), i think there are definately varying degrees of psychic talents.

for the second question, i'd have to say B. i am slightly inclined mystically, but i wont go far enough to say that i have psychic talents. if i worked at it, i could probably get better as sorting out noise (as i've found there is a lot of it) but i dont think i could ever have the aforementioned Uber-Cool Psychic Powers(tm); i'm not sure i would want it because i've found there isn't really an "off" switch, so it would get pretty distracting at times, i think.  

[Doctrix]

TeaDidikai

Not everyone has the potential for such talents. In my work in the community, I have met people who are now and always will be def and blind in the psychic sense. No amount of instruction will change this.

I guess I've tended towards the assumption that almost everyone has the potential. However it would be hopeless to prove that point because everyone has not and will not ever develop them for whatever reason. I suppose my assumptions have always been a little egocentric!

TeaDidikai

Do you feel that awareness beyond the five senses benefits you on your path as a) A function of Faith...

Since all perceptions are on faith, yes.

TeaDidikai

...and/or b) Giving you a tool to better apply the pragmatic aspects of faith including but not limited to working with different forces to supplement the real world efforts you make in your daily life?

Oh, absolutely.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

I do however contest one assertion I hear often in the scene. Not everyone has the potential for such talents. In my work in the community, I have met people who are now and always will be def and blind in the psychic sense. No amount of instruction will change this.

No, but certain amounts of instruction could teach someone awareness. This doesn't neccessarily equate to psychic coolness, but being in tune to peoples' facial expressions and body language can be akin to passive empathy. Noticing certain changes in the environment can show what some people can psychically "see." Using the other five senses to the best of your ability may be akin to having a sixth.

Quote:

Do you feel that awareness beyond the five senses benefits you on your path as a) A function of Faith and/or b) Giving you a tool to better apply the pragmatic aspects of faith including but not limited to working with different forces to supplement the real world efforts you make in your daily life?

Yes.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Just as not all people have talent for walking, talking, or archery.
And yeah, even to the point that some people completely are unable to perform the aforementioned.

As far as faith, I find greater cognizance to assist with gnosis more than faith.

As far as pragmatic applications, I suppose it depends on the goals of the faith, in my case, any edge I can grasp (without compromising my integrity) is a great boon in living up to the strictures before me.  

[Starlock]

I'm a bit curious to perhaps hear some examples, Didikai, of those you have met that you feel will forever remain psychically deaf. What is the basis for this assessment? How can this sort of thing be determined? I suppose I question this because to say someone will never be able to do something is making quite a strong statement.

I'd also like to raise another possibility. What if these individuals who are supposedly deaf to these things are not actually deaf to them, but are simply labeling the experiences in a different way or are unaware they have the talents? That is a certain kind of deafness, but it does allow for the potential to hear. Sometimes people aren't aware of their own talents and they need to be pointed out. Since a lot of magic/psychical working is mental, the person's mindset has much to do with it.

Sure is possible that some will never be aware of their talents, never label what they do as psychic, or just plain be deaf. I think the potential for change is always there though, just as the potential for the supervolcano in the northwestern US to blow it's top is always there. Chances can be abysmally low that it'll happen 'right now' but there's ever a chance of occurence. And again, since much of magic/psychical working is mental, if I tell someone "some people never develop this talent" that will reverberate in their minds and may consequentially put a binder on them. If a person believes they'll never develop a talent, chances are high that they never will, eh?

Then there's another question to be raised as to whether or not there is such a thing as awareness beyond the five senses. To say we only have five senses is slightly oversimplified; the human body can detect a wide variety of signals. Synching these together, combined with the schematic and heuristical constructs of the brain, can produce 'psychic' experiences. Putting it simply, there is a valid scientific explanation for these so-called sixth-senses. I've yet to see or hear of anything that fails to be explainable with an understanding of human physiology and psychology. That doesn't mean there might not be something going on beyond that, but it does beg additional consideration in the topic.

Yeeck.. that's 'nuff said for now.  

[AingealOreiad]

I'm of the feeling that very few, if any, people are TRUELY blind and deaf to other awarenesses--it's just that some are better or more sensitive to it than others.

I've seen/felt spirits and had precog experiences, but I can count them on one hand. I tried training and focusing and I can't even read the tarot. I'm just "not good" at it, just as I'm "not good" with languages. I think that those that can and do have these abilities are not better off when it comes to religion and spiritual matters, they simply have tools that some of us don't.  

[VisasMarr]

I think that certain forms of sense beyond the five are possible in everyone... to a certain degree. Some of us are natural artists. We can draw, and we always have, we can create things, and we always have. One can learn to draw, but one cannot learn to create art. I believe it is much like that. It is a skill, but it is also an art.

Having said that, I cannot say that I am particularily attuned with any sort of 'sixth sense.' I get feelings, premonitions. I can read people well (in person), but I think that has more to do with the fact that I am a loner and I have spent a lot of my time observing others. I wouldn't call myself an empath... But I tend to project my emotions on to others, and others' emotions can have a profound impact on me. Though I notice that while on medication, this isn't as strong...which is kind of nice. I think I naturally learned how to shield myself from it shortly after junior high started. But I have never been able to block it out entirely.
I have a strong intuition (or gut instinct) that I have found is rarely wrong...but I'm not sure if that is the same thing.
Other than that though, I'm pretty dead in that area. I might be able to learn it. But I honestly have no desire to. I don't see it being particularily useful in my life.

In regards to faith and Divinity. I don't know, I don't really associate that with any sort of psychic ability. If that is what it is to be able to Speak/Hear/Feel Divinity, and other entities, then I think it is innate in all people. And will grow with experience in these things. I never had to 'work' at that... it all just sort of came... in small steps though.

In the newagey pagan scene, it really seems like snazzy '3l33t psychic powerzzz' are a little overexhaggerated and too much emphasis is placed on them. *shrugs* It all seems rather hokey to me.  

[TeaDidikai]

Starlock

I'm a bit curious to perhaps hear some examples of those you have met that you feel will forever remain psychically deaf. What is the basis for this assessment? How can this sort of thing be determined? I suppose I question this because to say someone will never be able to do something is making quite a strong statement.

The most obvious from my personal experience would be my mother.

As for the basis for the assessment- a few factors play into it which are not limited to a complete and total lack of resonance outside of the self. It would be impressive if it didn't make me ill.

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I'd also like to raise another possibility. What if these individuals who are supposedly deaf to these things are not actually deaf to them, but are simply labeling the experiences in a different way or are unaware they have the talents? That is a certain kind of deafness, but it does allow for the potential to hear. Sometimes people aren't aware of their own talents and they need to be pointed out. Since a lot of magic/psychical working is mental, the person's mindset has much to do with it.

Nope. I said what I meant. She isn't able to experience on any level anything beyond the five physical senses. She doesn't even have what I have heard some call "Motherly Intuition".

I've seen this in other people as well. It's actually very interesting, and while I do not dismiss outright that some people may experience things in different manners- these people aren't counted amongst them.

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I think the potential for change is always there though, just as the potential for the supervolcano in the northwestern US to blow it's top is always there. Chances can be abysmally low that it'll happen 'right now' but there's ever a chance of occurence.

Show me where the potential for me to grow a second nose on my left a** cheek of my own accord is.

Nope. Some things are impossible.
You have a personal problem with being told No. You might want to get over that.

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And again, since much of magic/psychical working is mental, if I tell someone "some people never develop this talent" that will reverberate in their minds and may consequentially put a binder on them. If a person believes they'll never develop a talent, chances are high that they never will, eh?

Again. No. "A bright child will find a way to overcome poor instruction". My Nana said that a lot when I was growing up.

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Then there's another question to be raised as to whether or not there is such a thing as awareness beyond the five senses. To say we only have five senses is slightly oversimplified; the human body can detect a wide variety of signals.

Actually, it's a system of classification, not a statement of the nature of the universe.

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Synching these together, combined with the schematic and heuristical constructs of the brain, can produce 'psychic' experiences.

Such as Panic. But we aren't speaking about those kinds of experiences. If I intended to address that- I would have made a different topic.

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Putting it simply, there is a valid scientific explanation for these so-called sixth-senses. I've yet to see or hear of anything that fails to be explainable with an understanding of human physiology and psychology.

How about auric sight that has been tested to NOT BE retinal burn.


By the way- Didikai is not a name.