URGENT READ!

[Bignate_MCBC]

This preacher just spit some spiritual knowledge to me. and i have to share it.

A running theory on the reason for the tree of the knowledge iof good and evil being in the garden of eden ws to tempt Adam and Eve to sin. The preacher didn't want to knowck this theory completely, but I find this reason OUT of the loving and caring nature of God entirely. And if God is a holy God who hates sin, why would he cause us purposefulyy to sin? Well this prescher said maybe we are missing something in the story. If you look, it says Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed. Weeeeeellllll you know how little kids will just hop out the tub and run around naked, without care? Well it's kind of the same thing. Adam and Eve were "just born" in thought, even though they were grown up and have sex and what not, spiritually, they were still very young. Look at this scripture

Hebrews 5:12-14

In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

The mature Christian is able to decipher good from evil, so there is purpose for that tree being in the garden. What if Adam and Eve could have EVENTUALLY eaten from the tree so they could distinguished good and evil like a mature Christian, but it just wasn't time for them to eat the fruit (not apple, fruit. Bible don't say apple.) when they ate the fruit? With this theory, goes more along God's loving nature to pretect us from what we are not yet ready to have, like sex before marriage (for all the true Christians), for those called to preach, for those called to prophesy, anything God is calling you to do. Knives are not a bad thing, We cook with them. But in the hands of a little kid, where it's too early to handkle a knife, it becomes a dangerous. Since parents want to protect their children, they tell them not to handle knives. it's not that they can never EVER handle a knife, it's just not time yet. Do you think a more accurate theory would be that Adam and Eve could have eventually eaten from the tree, but since they ate it before the time, ti became a dangerous thing?

I like this theory much more than a hateful (to me) theory about God purposefully tempting man, something he does not do.  

[Captain_Theoretical]

I really like this theory.

It sort of goes along with something else I read.

God says that if they eat of the tree, they will die. Of course when they do eat of the tree, they don't die. People say that they became mortal and so they would eventually die, but God really did tell them they would die immediately.

I was reading something in which the author suggested this was a case of bad parenting, God told them they would die and then once they ate of the tree He gave in and just banished them instead.

How this fits in with this theory is that perhaps it wasn't bad parenting, but perhaps dysfunctional parenting. God told them they would die because He didn't want them to eat of the fruit yet, like telling your children their teeth will rot out of their head if they don't brush their teeth. Of course they will eventually, but not immediately like you implied. It is the same way with God telling Adam and Eve they would die if they ate of the tree. And banishing Adam and Eve from the garden was God's way of saying "If you're ready to eat of the tree you're ready to be out on your own in the real world." or something along those lines.

Just my thoughts.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I think the theory is very interesting, though there are some flaws in it. For example, why would God put a tree in the middle of the Garden to give them knowledge. If, like the theory states, He was going to give them the knowledge of good and evil eventually, it doesn't make sense that He would put a tree there in the middle of the Garden that they could go and eat of whenever they wanted (whether commanded not to or not). The theory that it was there for them to partake of eventually is just as cruel as putting it there for them to never partake of.

To me it seems more likely that it was more like the trials and tribulations we face today, except because life is more complicated than life in Eden, it might be hard to notice any parallels. God created Man and Woman to have free will, not to be puppets. He then placed the tree in the middle of the Garden, knowing that we could be tempted, but not really stepping in to intervene because He gave us free will, and stopping us would be going back on His gift of that. Just like today we can be tempted to do many things. Why would God let us be tempted? So that it can lead us to a place where we lean on Him for strength. Ignorance might be bliss, but I'm rather glad they ate of the Tree; it gives us all an opportunity to follow God not out of blind faith, but a deep meaningful relationship with His Son, sent to redeem us and reverse the effects of having eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  

[Imotoku]

I do know that God doesn't tempt anyone. He tests them and sometimes they fail.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

He Himself doesn't tempt us, but He lets us be tempted, as part of being tested and as part of the sanctification process.  

[OnoBoei]

I agree with fushigi on the free will thing. Good topic; interesting, thought-provoking, yet not really outrageously controversial (i just hate those topics where the tension heats up stare gonk burning_eyes )  

[Captain_Theoretical]

Whether it's one way or the other, I do have a question.

Why did he put the tree of knowledge in the middle of the garden at all?

Adam and Eve were very much like children, and it would be like putting a big flashing neon sign that said "EAT OF THIS TREE".

What I mean is, let's say the tree is like a big oak tree in God's back yard He doesn't want Billy (His son in this example, work with me here Jesus isn't around in Genesis) to climb it because He's afraid he would get hurt. Now this could actually go two ways either He tells Billy that if he climbs the tree he will get seriously injured if he climbs the tree or He tells Billy He would spank him if he climbed the tree (God says to Adam and Eve if they eat of the tree they will die). Now the neighbor's kid Johnathon comes over to play with Billy. God knows that Johnathon is not very well-behaved and will be a bad influence on Billy, but God doesn't want to be overprotective and wants Billy to make his own good choices so He allows it. Up until now Billy has wanted to climb the tree but he has refrained because his father said it was bad. But Johnathon manages to convince him God just doesn't want him having any fun, that He's just babying him and if he's not a baby he better climb the tree to prove it. Billy does it, and does not sustain major injuries or get spanked. I hardly think God meant that risk-taking behavior early in life would lead to other risky behavior later and cause him to sustain major injuries (meaning that I don't think God would have said they would die right then if he meant they would become mortal and die eventually)

God could have always chopped down the big oak tree. But God really isn't overprotective, God wants Billy to make good choices for himself-- you can't learn how to make good choices if bad choices are never an option.

I forget where I was going with that analogy, but that really seems to be the answer. Without evil, there can be no good. Adam and Eve weren't good or bad, they were just Adam and Eve. Blank slates. Even when there was no sin, there had to be an ability to sin or else there was nothing. If there is no evil, there is no good. Adam and Eve could not truly have free will unless there was good and evil, or rather the possibility for good and evil. His creation was not complete without choices.

I think this is a parable, but I'm not quite sure what it's from. The story in which there were men with gold, I think there were three. I really don't remember this story very well but the point is one of the men went out and spent it frivolously I believe, and the other buried his gold. I may have the wording of this story wrong, but I've got the principle.

Instead of scolding the man who spent his gold frivolously, God scolded the man who buried it. The money was useless if it was underground.

God would rather risk us making the wrong choice than not making any choice at all.

If this has made any sense. I think I botched up that story with the men and the gold, but surely someone has heard the story and knows what I mean.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Good point.

And the story was about three men and their "talents." One of them invested his talent, one spent it stupidly, and the other buried it. The one who buried it got yelled at.  

[MrJoeShoe]

the way i see it..
God is PERFECT. which means He full well knows what is going to happen and why. That also means He is JUST, which means he will always do the right thing. Therefore, God does not struggle with deciding how He can be a good parent. He is the PERFECT parent and anything other would be to defy his nature.

Sometimes people accidently attatch fallible human attributes to how they view God's nature to be. (try to relate to Him on human terms so to speak.) Such as saying that God struggles with how to "raise his children" as the subject were. God knows how to love his children and will always consistantly do so. He won't wonder if He's doing the right, and just thing and await the outcome.

Captain_Theoretical

God says that if they eat of the tree, they will die. Of course when they do eat of the tree, they don't die. People say that they became mortal and so they would eventually die, but God really did tell them they would die immediately.

When God told them they would die immediately He meant it. The "Death" was eternal separation from God Himself.

SO WHY THEN, IF GOD IS LOVING, JUST, AND ALL-KNOWING, WOULD HE PUT THE TREE THERE?

To show man that he will choose to disobey God's loving instruction and give into temptation. That man is not perfect.

That is most of what i can grasp from my understanding. surprised  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

a n z u

Captain_Theoretical

God says that if they eat of the tree, they will die. Of course when they do eat of the tree, they don't die. People say that they became mortal and so they would eventually die, but God really did tell them they would die immediately.

When God told them they would die immediately He meant it. The "Death" was eternal separation from God Himself.

SO WHY THEN, IF GOD IS LOVING, JUST, AND ALL-KNOWING, WOULD HE PUT THE TREE THERE?

To show man that he will choose to disobey God's loving instruction and give into temptation. That man is not perfect.

That is most of what i can grasp from my understanding. surprised

^I like this.

But my thoughts on the death of Adam and Eve... yes, they did die that day. Their simple, happy-go-lucky selves were forever buried beneath the crushing burden of knowedge, shame, seperation from God and now having to toil for things that had once come to them with no effort. The death of the perfect humans gave rise to man today.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

God never tempted man. Temptation is something along the lines of 'come on... you know you want to... it's not all that bad...'. God said 'Don't eat or you'll die.'

See the difference?  

[kairiluvxxx]

I don't think that God tempts his children. God can "test" them, but I don't think God was trying to test Adam and Eve with the tree (or was he ??). One of my pastors in church (my church is kinda big...with thousands of people o.0) said that God gives us freedom. He lets us do whatever we want, just like right now on this earth. People are able to choose whatever they want to do..but in the end, it all goes as God had planned. Well, God may be the God who tells us directly what He wants us to do, but He is also a hidden God. Don't you think so? I mean, He might directly tell us something, but usually, He just watches all our doings... and what I am trying to say is that, God might not have wanted Adam and Eve to sin, eating from that tree, but He wants to believe that we are not going to do that sin. (??) ..okay...I don't really understand what I am trying to say either.. but something like that?? I don't even know what I am trying to say either, but our God is a loving God, He wouldn't want us to turn away from Him! We are His creation! It must be a part of His whole plans...and we will find out when we go to heaven!! I CAN'T wait!! xd  

[Lickitung]

Captain_Theoretical

God could have always chopped down the big oak tree. But God really isn't overprotective, God wants Billy to make good choices for himself-- you can't learn how to make good choices if bad choices are never an option.

Adam and Eve truly had freewill before they ate from the tree, they really didn't need the tree to sin. Adam and Eve could have gotten nasty with each other, they could have gotten jealous with the other's relationship with God ("She/he's his favorite!"), they could have abused the animals, etc.

I think that God intended for them to eat from the tree, because the alternative doesn't make sense. Why would he put the tree there if he didn't want them to eat from it. It's like putting a glass of toxic chemicals that looks like yummy juice on the table, and then telling a young child not to drink it. It would always be there for the child to see, and wonder how it tasted; if you didn't want the kid to drink from it, you'd put it somewhere safe from their reach. It almost seems abusive to put something out of bounds (that looks attractive) in plain view of a child and then telling them they can't have it.  

[Heaven Edge]

God can't tempt anyone and He cannot be tempted either  

[OnoBoei]

I agree with heaven edge, God doesn't tempt anyone, He just allows circumstances that involve temptations to happen, to test the person, thus making the person use the free will given to rationalize whether what the he (the person) is to do is beneficial or not.