Magical language.

[TatteredAngel]

I suck at making topics, but hey, here's a try. Something I've always been curious about and figure the awesome crowd here might have some good opinions. My question is, in its simple form, "what about magical language makes it magical?"

I don't of course expect any one answer, heh. But what I'm curious about is various beliefs about what a spoken or written language must be to be magical. If a language is considered magical when written, does that also apply to being spoken? What if you do not write in the magical language, but write its words in a phonetic approximation? Does that undo the magical element?

Also, does the intent/writer/speaker have anything to do with it? If a fluff finds something cool and decides to start scrawling all her luv spells in it, is it dangerous? Or, conversely, what if it is written with no magical intent at all, say by someone who is studying the language for anthropological reasons?

Am I splitting hairs too finely? *puts on student hat*  

[Elizabeth Tarion]

I think that that would depend on the "magical language" in question.
Someone privately using a language (Spanish, Latin, Klingon etc) for spell and ritual work only may veiw the language as "magical". They'd be using it for psychodrama effect which may aid their workings.

Runes and other such things (symbols etc. handed down by a deity/spirit/entity used by certain religions/traditions) are a different story, though. Someone else will have to answer for that.  

[saint dreya]

i remember at one point reagun speaking of something he had done, a spell or ritual, where he spoke Gaeilge (best of my recollection) and not only received a powerful response, but effected his throat for a bit after.

mind, i could just be going batty at an early age.  

[maenad nuri]

one of my best poems I've written, I wrote to eventually translate into Latin.

But yeah, psychodrama is amazing, no?  

[TeaDidikai]

In my humble, moderate, pensive, subtle opinion...

Three things.

The Glyphs
The Voice
The Psychodrama

Within a mythos- one can "catch" or understand something by it's True Voice.

If you listen (and know what you are looking for) you can "hear" someone's true voice in their daily speech.

The Glyphs are pretty simple. When looking at the mysteries within each letter- (or cipher there of), resonance is established.

Psychodrama as Nuri said- the language makes you think about something that would otherwise be second nature to the point where the importance of what your are saying might have been glossed over.  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

In my humble, moderate, pensive, subtle opinion...

Three things.

The Glyphs
The Voice
The Psychodrama

Within a mythos- one can "catch" or understand something by it's True Voice.

If you listen (and know what you are looking for) you can "hear" someone's true voice in their daily speech.

The Glyphs are pretty simple. When looking at the mysteries within each letter- (or cipher there of), resonance is established.

Psychodrama as Nuri said- the language makes you think about something that would otherwise be second nature to the point where the importance of what your are saying might have been glossed over.

Exactly what she said.  

[TeaDidikai]

reagun ban

Exactly what she said.

Does this mean I can add you to my collection of Fan Boys?  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

Does this mean I can add you to my collection of Fan Boys?

You should know by know that, regardless of how much you can drive me spare, I am a huge fan.  

[TeaDidikai]

reagun ban

TeaDidikai

Does this mean I can add you to my collection of Fan Boys?

You should know by know that, regardless of how much you can drive me spare, I am a huge fan.

~smirks~ But I wouldn't have pictured you as one to be counted as a Fan Boy- hence why I asked.

~Presses your buttons like a good "little" sister~  

[TatteredAngel]

Can I ask for a little clarification? I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes. When you talk about True Voice and knowing what to look for, does that mean you probably won't stumble on it by accident if you don't know what you're doing?

Is there anything that could be intrinsically dangerous, or do you really have to be looking?  

[Fiddlers Green]

Well, I'll tackle this from three slightly different perspectives.

Psychodrama has already been well covered and needs no further explanation.

The Second is when the incantation, or words have been specifically tied to an effect by an externall intellegence.
The words themselves don't possesses power save by ancient agreement, or the personal attention it draws from other entities which have tied a value to it. Such that, a specific phrase does not, itself, inact effect, but rather garners the attention of an external creature which then does so. The language may be considered mystical if it is the common, or agreeded upon language between a group and an external patron, but only in so much as the sway it has with said patron.
The unaware do this only at their own risk.

The Third is the case where the actual phrase has power.
It is the formulae to an equation that produces an effect.
Anyone who can propperly utter it can pull it off. Of course, such situations require exacting attention to detail to be reliable...
Or alot of luck.  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

Can I ask for a little clarification? I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes. When you talk about True Voice and knowing what to look for, does that mean you probably won't stumble on it by accident if you don't know what you're doing?

I'll use a generic friend of mine as an example.

I know Friend X's True Voice. I can tell you which sounds it can be heard in. I told Friend X such, and used Friend Y as an example. He understood what I meant- it was like a revelation.

Now- Friend X and Friend Y talk to each other a lot. Friend X has heard Friend Y's True Voice hundreds of times, but without being aware of it, it went unnoticed until I pointed it out.

Quote:

Is there anything that could be intrinsically dangerous, or do you really have to be looking?

Dangerous in knowing someone's True Voice? Not in and of itself.

It's akin to knowing someone's True Name, or Sigil, or any other kind of personal marker.

Dangerous to know? Not really. Dangerous to use... well... that would depend.  

[Elizabeth Tarion]

Fiddlers Green

The Third is the case where the actual phrase has power.
It is the formulae to an equation that produces an effect.
Anyone who can propperly utter it can pull it off. Of course, such situations require exacting attention to detail to be reliable...
Or alot of luck.

Just so I'm sure that I understand... The correct pronunciation of YHVH is an example?  

[Aesi]

[Bavi]

Fiddlers Green

The Third is the case where the actual phrase has power.
It is the formulae to an equation that produces an effect.
Anyone who can propperly utter it can pull it off. Of course, such situations require exacting attention to detail to be reliable...
Or alot of luck.

Just so I'm sure that I understand... The correct pronunciation of YHVH is an example?

I haven't run into any source actually defining the true pronunciation of YHWH. At least, my studies always give me to understand that it's unpronouncable. Particularly since it has the nickname of the "unpronouncable tetragrammaton". It's sacred and not meant to be used frequently or lightly. It's the earthly name of God, representing the greatest understanding of Him any normal human being can have. It should be, therefore, a physically impossible sound.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Bavi

Just so I'm sure that I understand... The correct pronunciation of YHVH is an example?

According to the Ba'al Shem, yes.
One tradition holds that when Shem said, Let there be light, that was literal... the word that was spoken to create light if respoken, will create light.
It is a function of the word itself.
The Tetragrammaton is alledgedly a word of power in some traditions.
There are others who just use it as a polite form for Adonai.
Your best bet for clarification is to ask a local Rabbi, and don't couch it in mystic terms, I know one of our local Rabbis is going to do something drastic if the idjits don't stop pestering him about Kabbalah. sweatdrop