Three Fold Law...Opinions?

[Mykellex]

Oh I feel a flame coming on....
Anyways. I had borrowed my friends copy of Witchcrafting by Phyllis Currot, and there was a debate on the three fold law in it. Currot said the threefold law was created by a vengeful god. (I actually didn't read the whole thing...just litte excerpts)

But to get to my point. What are some of your opinions to the threefold law?
-Is it of any use, or simply a tactic to keep our morality?
-Does is affect this life or the next or not at all?
-Does is effect only those that subscribe or believe in it?
-Is it only in Wicca?

 

[TeaDidikai]

twisted Ignore for one moment that I am a Recon heathen. Forget that I am a LHPer, pretend for a moment that my religion has no opinion on the duty of someone like me when it comes to curses and the like...

Slip into a pretty world where all is bubbles and light and ignore my personal theology.

The Three Fold Law (in my opinion) is an infantile culturally bastardized watered down Western take on two ideas within it’s sweeping application in the Pagan Scene. One of them rooted in Middle Eastern theology, the other further east stemming from Asia.

I am of course, speaking of "The Golden Rule" and "Karma".

While we are in this pretty world of flowers and crystals- Karma doesn't really mean what Karma means, nor does The Golden Rule extend beyond the Law of Agape.

Now that we have such a lovely mental image, let's take a sledgehammer- or a Thor's hammer to it.

Karma says nothing about the Universe "repaying" someone in kind for the actions they take upon another.
The Golden Rule extends beyond the Law of Agape, because if it didn't, forgiveness would be null and Yeshua's sacrifice would be soiled.

In less flowery speech:
If The Golden Rule only says "Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you", the halting point is at anger- but as YHVH does not expect his children to be perfect, it goes beyond that and while accepting anger and other such "non-Loving" emotions as part of the human condition, one can always see Forgiveness beyond any sins that are visited.

Karma just isn't what most Westerners think it is. Period. It holds no meaning without Dharma to provide context- and one's Dharma is only designed to allow one to burn off Karma. A thief stealing from you is not "bad karma" for the thief. They are acting as theives should. A Teacher teaching a child is not "good karma", it is a lack of karma as karma is not generated within the bounds of Dharma.

Now- Onto the "Threefold Law" itself.

It applies in the strictest sense to some Wiccans and some Eclectic Pagans. No matter what they try and tell you- it does not apply universally as truth until they can prove it.

Slight problem- they can't.

I'm actually a little more bitter than I should be on the subject. I ended a friendship with a woman I respected who claimed to be Asatru over a discussion centered around Satanism and the Three Fold Law.

Now- there is a certain context that usually comes with "The Threefold Law". This would be the framework of "The Rede", sometimes called The Wiccan Rede, sometimes called The Witches Rede. Gardner took from Crowley's works for a number of things. It is only natural that Crowley's works influenced aspects of modern Witchcult theology.


When one approaches the idea- one cannot begin to fathom it without looking at it's roots.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will".

There are numerous ways one can approach Crowley's words.

We see three prime concepts presented.
Love, Will and Law.
Based on reading far too much of his work when I got really board, I am inclined to think of Crowley as neither Devil nor Saint. I get the feeling that he walked somewhere between The Law of Agape and a Secular Humanist- almost Atheistic Satanist perspective on the nature of Love- viewing it as something that reached from the most mortal concept of raw lust to the highest ideal of Ain and beyond within Agape.

Will is the essence of individuality and the self, but through Will and by virtue of living in this world, we are bound by Law, breaking that bind causes consequences.

Now we get into the meat of the Real Meaning ™ of The Threefold Law.

“Ever Mind the Rule of Three, what ye sends out comes back to thee”.

While we are still playing a game of pretend that divorces my reality from the hypothetical nature of Bunnies and Glitter- it seems pretty simple on the face of it. Do nice things ways- you will be rewarded. Think nice thoughts. Love in nice ways. Here love, speak love, see love- and goodness shall follow you like a cute puppy.

But that isn’t enough context. The line before that reads “And it harm none- do as ye will”, now- Reagun and others have made great strides in explaining this concept to a large portion of the pagan scene on Gaia.

And it harm none- do as ye will is not the same as a prohibition against harm. It is saying anything that doesn’t harm is permissible. Think of it in the context of a huge set of rules- a cacophony of “Thou Shalt Not”’s. Whatever isn’t mentioned, is not prohibited, it just isn’t endorsed. The same applies to this. “And it Harm None- do as ye will” states in eight words, anything that doesn’t harm is allowed, anything that does harm needs to be examined on an individual basis.

There- now that the generic framework has been established- let me close with this thought designed to bring all of you who have followed these ideal illicit tryst of pros and poetry-

WHEN NATURE CREATES A PERPETUAL ENERGY MACHINE- THEN AND ONLY ******** THEN WILL I EVEN BEGIN TO CONSIDER THE THREE FOLD LAW VALID.

Thank you. Have a nice day. twisted  

[Doctrix]

Mykellex

Is it only in Wicca?

I can neither confirm nor deny whether it is a Wiccan idea at all, but here is a proposed timeline for the concept that interested me: http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/3fl-8.shtml  

[CuAnnan]

Enthropy pwns the three fold law.  

[quantum_leaper]

TeaDidikai

WHEN NATURE CREATES A PERPETUAL ENERGY MACHINE- THEN AND ONLY ******** THEN WILL I EVEN BEGIN TO CONSIDER THE THREE FOLD LAW VALID.

*claps*

Brilliant!

I'm so going to steal that one.....  

[Mykellex]

See, you learn something everyday.  

[TeaDidikai]

reagun ban

Enthropy pwns the three fold law.

Bingo  

[Doctrix]

reagun ban

Enthropy pwns the three fold law.

*LOL* A+++  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

Enthropy? *feels stupid*  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Dragon_Witch_Woman

Enthropy? *feels stupid*

One could say it's just a misspelling of "Entropy", but I prefer to think of it as:

(Entropy + Enthalpy)
_________________
Pie

 

[Aesi]

During the expansion period of a universe, wouldn't laws of increase like the Threefold Law be necessary? Though it [the Threefold Law] is quite an extreme simplification, it's similar to Chaos Theory, isn't it? That is, each small event in a system is multiplied until its effects alter other parts of the system. ^^; But maybe I'm only showing how far behind I am on my theoretical maths when I think this, or how little I understand them.  

[TeaDidikai]

Aesi

During the expansion period of a universe, wouldn't laws of increase like the Threefold Law be necessary?

No. Because Expansion is not the same as Perpetual.

Quote:

Though it [the Threefold Law] is quite an extreme simplification, it's similar to Chaos Theory, isn't it? That is, each small event in a system is multiplied until its effects alter other parts of the system. ^^;

Which is a proportional response, not a multiplication there of- none of which accounts for the fact that Chaos Theory allows for external factors to feed in energy, nor does it take into account that even within Chaos Theory, Entropy still wins eventually.

Those key points keep The Three Fold Law from functioning in any natural framework- and until I see otherwise, I have no reason to assert they work in a supernatural framework either- especially since the tendancy is to apply it universally- which I know for a fact is not how it actually functions.  

[Starlock]

Just to throw this in here... I've read somewhere (forgive me that I can't remember where exactly... I read so much I loose track of sources sometimes) that one can interpret the Threefold law not as a MULTIPLICATION of energy/consequence, but that every action affects a person in THREE ways: in body, in mind, and in spirit. What's your response to this angle, guys?  

[TeaDidikai]

I think that is a very "broken" way to look at it, and that it isn't the usual way the Law is approched.

Furthermore- not all things that effect the non-corporeal existance hold weight on the corporeal realm  

[Doctrix]

Starlock

Every action affects a person in THREE ways: in body, in mind, and in spirit. What's your response to this angle, guys?

I, personally, like that angle more than straight multiplication. Perhaps because my usual application of magic involves changing the self to change the world around the self. The "threefold" return seems like an oversimplification of possible obvious consequences.