Sylvia Browne? I think she's a flippin' nutter.

[queertastrophy]

Every Wednesday, I come home from class to find my mother glued to the couch, watching Montel, who has this Sylvia Browne lady on his show. My initial reaction was wondering why my Catholic mommy was watching this tripe, but that subsided as I actually listened to the crap this lady was saying, which include:

1. Everyone who dies apparently goes to this happy place where they can watch/protect their living loved ones.
2. No daemons/demons, just rather angry ghosts/spirits.
3. Everyone has a "guardian angel" ("angel" being used in the fluffy, happy, "I love the world" sense that makes a lot of people cringe).

Those three reasons enough are enough to make me think she's a basket-cased little liar, especially with tying them all in with a "God" she mentions--I assume she's referring to YHVH.

She pretty much spews out what people want to hear: "Yes, your loved ones watch you and protect you, and they're very happy where they are." "Yes, your daughter's/son's/husband's/dog's killer will be found. His/her name is ____, and he/she drives a _____." "Yes, you'll get married and have ___ healthy babies with a white picket fence and six-figure income."

After half an hour, I'm usually gaping at my mother with a, "Why the crud are you watching this drivel?" look. Seriously, how can people swallow some of this crap?

So...

Discuss:
--How people swallow this crap.
--Why are people still listening to her?
--Does anybody here think she's not a fraud? Why?
--Why people are so eager to have their spiritual and urgent questions fulfilled, and why from Sylvia Freakin' Browne.  

[MST3Kakalina]

Man, she's strange. I don't think she does any actual HARM, though. I mean, no doubt she makes mad ********' money, but I don't think she's ill-intentioned as much as...knows what people want to hear? People want to hear that their loved ones are okay, it's simple. It does them no harm to hear that. People believe anything that brings them comfort, IMHO. I haven't read any of her books, but if they're just her ramblings on angels and what happens to dead people, then that's not much more than a philosophical treatise, however poorly-cobbled together and rambly it is--and there's no condemning her for putting her views out there. Unless she's saying stuff JUST for the sake of making $$, instead of "oh hey I want to share this idea with others because I think it will help," which I do think is morally reprehensible. Of course, the only person who knows that is Sylvia herself.


I don't know enough about her biography to qualify her as a fraud or not, though. Let's be serious here: there are easier ways to make sick cash than being a professional psychic. Either way, you've got the majority of people treating you like a loony, and if you're a charlatan, then you have to go through the hoops of keeping up the act. Not that it's very hard, necessarily--John Edwards, hey, how you doin'?--but then once your jig is up, your integrity is branded for the rest of your life. That's a huge risk. At least traveling doctors and miracle cures had the advantage of no national and instantaneous media--they could just pack up and go a few towns over where no one had heard of them.

And if you are genuine, doing enough work to generate a decent income must be exhausting. Either option (to me) looks too tiring and risky to be attractive.

I do find all the pictures of her on her books absolutely frightening, though. It makes me think of how Queen Elizabeth died with all of that makeup on her face. eek  

[Elizabeth Tarion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Browne

There was another site someone handed it which had a much more detailed version of "Browne vs. Randi" and goes into her false medical advice which Wiki doesn't seem to touch on by a caller, but I can't find the link to it and, what luck, the link that it can be found in another guild is inaccessable because of the 'pagination' error.

Quote:

Let's be serious here: there are easier ways to make sick cash than being a professional psychic.

For some people that's not true. For some people, lying and cold reading is easier than say, becoming a doctor which takes an assload of work.
Besides, do you realise just how many people buy into her crap? My mother even has one of her books xp  

[Cranium Squirrel]

I have to admit, Ms. Browne is one of my major sticking points. She overcharges for intensely bad advice, and the only reason I can fathom for people continuing to listen to her outright lies and silly speculations are that they want to hear something intensely comforting.

Think about it:

Everyone's happy when they die, and we all go to a pleasant Celesital Waiting Room of sorts to watch over our loved ones while we have a tea and enjoy being dead? No down side to death at all, even for those who want/need correction?

She's crossbred all the happy bits from major faiths into one intense lovefest, sterilised all the bad parts, and turned Christianity into a New Age Drivelfest. And then published about 25 books that all say the same things, with slightly different wordings. And people buy them, because they want to be reassured everything will be light and fluffy and good when they/their loved one/their neighbour/their dog/their fish dies.  

[queertastrophy]

MST3Kakalina

People want to hear that their loved ones are okay, it's simple. It does them no harm to hear that.

I feel that feeding people's delusions will do them more harm than good, in the long run. I'd rather have blunt, hard honesty over fluffy nonsense. Covering the truth makes dawning realization that much more painful.

MST3Kakalina

I do find all the pictures of her on her books absolutely frightening, though. It makes me think of how Queen Elizabeth died with all of that makeup on her face. eek

Her voice isn't much better, either. She sounds like she smokes six packs a day. She's practically on the Stoma Express. eek

[Bavi]

There was another site someone handed it which had a much more detailed version of "Browne vs. Randi" and goes into her false medical advice which Wiki doesn't seem to touch on by a caller, but I can't find the link to it and, what luck, the link that it can be found in another guild is inaccessable because of the 'pagination' error.

False medical advice? I can only imagine. gonk Those poor, gullible people.

Byaggha

She's crossbred all the happy bits from major faiths into one intense lovefest, sterilised all the bad parts, and turned Christianity into a New Age Drivelfest.

Exactly. She comes across as very UU, which is, at best, moderately annoying.  

[TeaDidikai]

BlueRoseTorn

Discuss:
--How people swallow this crap.

Same way people likely swollow that Odin gave the runes to man.

Quote:

--Why are people still listening to her?

Because she gives people insight and inspires them to faith.

Quote:

--Does anybody here think she's not a fraud? Why?

I have a dear friend who believes a great deal of what she says. Do I think she is a fraud? No. Do I think she is accurate? No. Aka, that was a false delemia.

Quote:

--Why people are so eager to have their spiritual and urgent questions fulfilled, and why from Sylvia Freakin' Browne.

Because we live in a culture built on revealed traditions and thus we are used to having answers at our fingertips. This is compounded by the fact that we are in the age of information, and that there is a cultural conditioning that says un-knowing is bad.  

[Akira-sun]

All I can say is "duh!" That is what every 'psychic' does, tells people what they want to here. If you want to know the future, wait until it becomes the present. Ta da, situation fixed.  

[TeaDidikai]

Akira-sun

All I can say is "duh!" That is what every 'psychic' does, tells people what they want to here. If you want to know the future, wait until it becomes the present. Ta da, situation fixed.

Bullshit. Many psychics do no such thing. My Baba and Nana amongst them. ~grumbles~  

[queertastrophy]

TeaDidikai

BlueRoseTorn

Discuss:
--How people swallow this crap.

Same way people likely swollow that Odin gave the runes to man.

What she offers isn't a set, so-called truth to any religion, though. She just gives people what they want to hear, regardless of their faith.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

--Why are people still listening to her?

Because she gives people insight and inspires them to faith.

I really can't see where she gives people insight. Faith, maybe, false as it might be. Again, I'd rather have the truth than be spoon-fed the "everything's all right" schtick.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

--Does anybody here think she's not a fraud? Why?

I have a dear friend who believes a great deal of what she says. Do I think she is a fraud? No. Do I think she is accurate? No. Aka, that was a false delemia.

I suppose you're right. Conceded, and I apologise.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

--Why people are so eager to have their spiritual and urgent questions fulfilled, and why from Sylvia Freakin' Browne.

Because we live in a culture built on revealed traditions and thus we are used to having answers at our fingertips. This is compounded by the fact that we are in the age of information, and that there is a cultural conditioning that says un-knowing is bad.

Which creates a potentially dangerous dilemma: People become so eager for answers, that they believe anything they're told, which can and probably does result in a lot of misinformation being believed and spread.  

[queertastrophy]

TeaDidikai

Akira-sun

All I can say is "duh!" That is what every 'psychic' does, tells people what they want to here. If you want to know the future, wait until it becomes the present. Ta da, situation fixed.

Bullshit. Many psychics do no such thing. My Baba and Nana amongst them. ~grumbles~

Agreed. It's absolutely not every psychic. My aunt wouldn't lower herself to that.  

[TeaDidikai]

BlueRoseTorn

What she offers isn't a set, so-called truth to any religion, though. She just gives people what they want to hear, regardless of their faith.

Some aspects of faith hold true across religious lines.

Unless you can prove that what she says is false, you're on shakey ground if you're going to make the positive assertion she is full of bullshit.

Quote:

I really can't see where she gives people insight. Faith, maybe, false as it might be. Again, I'd rather have the truth than be spoon-fed the "everything's all right" schtick.

Like I said, prove her wrong. Maybe everything is fine for the folks who she is speaking to.

Furthermore- Ancestors watching over and protecting their line? Very common in my path, very common in Asatru- just look at the Disir. Common in many Eastern European traditions... guardian spirits? Not like we haven't heard of that before. The assertion that there aren't demons, just pissed off spirits looks a lot like semantics if we want to quibble about it.

So she plays fast and loose with her lexicon. Doesn't invalidate what she is saying.

Quote:

I suppose you're right. Conceded, and I apologise.

No worries kiddo.

Quote:

Which creates a potentially dangerous dilemma: People become so eager for answers, that they believe anything they're told, which can and probably does result in a lot of misinformation being believed and spread.

Slippery Slope? Tsk tsk.

Further- true seekers will not be turned away my a little hard work.  

[queertastrophy]

TeaDidikai

BlueRoseTorn

What she offers isn't a set, so-called truth to any religion, though. She just gives people what they want to hear, regardless of their faith.

Some aspects of faith hold true across religious lines.

Agreed. (And now I suffer a brainfart in thinking of a more detailed response. gonk Sorry, I'll get back to this one.)

TeaDidikai

Unless you can prove that what she says is false, you're on shakey ground if you're going to make the positive assertion she is full of bullshit.

On the flip side: she makes all of these claims, and I'm waiting for her to prove that what she says is true.

However, there are many web pages that cover her false predictions:

http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/sylviapredictions98.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aspie/trueorfalse/sylviabrowne.html
http://www.anatheist.com/Articles/bs_files_sylvia_browne1.html

^ But to name a few that I've found (granted, they all have a bias towards her, but report what she said and what happened in the cases given accurately). Again, most of her predictions lie around the giving of false hope to people, as in the case of the mining accident. When such claims are proved false, they only cause that much more harm to those that heeded her words. That's my biggest problem with her.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

I really can't see where she gives people insight. Faith, maybe, false as it might be. Again, I'd rather have the truth than be spoon-fed the "everything's all right" schtick.

Like I said, prove her wrong. Maybe everything is fine for the folks who she is speaking to.

True, albeit highly unlikely that everyone is fine. I believe some of my deceased family members are rather unhappy where they are now--just because they may have been a good, decent person to me doesn't mean they weren't a hypocrite in their own faith, and unnecessarily horrible to others.

TeaDidikai

Furthermore- Ancestors watching over and protecting their line? Very common in my path, very common in Asatru- just look at the Disir. Common in many Eastern European traditions... guardian spirits? Not like we haven't heard of that before.

Common in many traditions, yes, but not all. She speaks with a Christian-ish tinge, and I have read nothing in Christian theology that says ancestors are watching and protecting their loved ones.

TeaDidikai

The assertion that there aren't demons, just pissed off spirits looks a lot like semantics if we want to quibble about it.

So she plays fast and loose with her lexicon. Doesn't invalidate what she is saying.

Hmm...perhaps. I might want to think more on that before responding further. (Again, sorry.)

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Which creates a potentially dangerous dilemma: People become so eager for answers, that they believe anything they're told, which can and probably does result in a lot of misinformation being believed and spread.

Slippery Slope? Tsk tsk.

Further- true seekers will not be turned away my a little hard work.

True in many cases, but there's always a few lazy apples in the bunch, wanting a quick fix. My friend is currently going through such a problem; it's a frustrating thing to watch.  

[TeaDidikai]

BlueRoseTorn

TeaDidikai

Unless you can prove that what she says is false, you're on shakey ground if you're going to make the positive assertion she is full of bullshit.

On the flip side: she makes all of these claims, and I'm waiting for her to prove that what she says is true.

Cpme now Blue... shifting the Burden of Proof?

Quote:

However, there are many web pages that cover her false predictions:

http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/sylviapredictions98.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aspie/trueorfalse/sylviabrowne.html
http://www.anatheist.com/Articles/bs_files_sylvia_browne1.html

^ But to name a few that I've found (granted, they all have a bias towards her, but report what she said and what happened in the cases given accurately).

Well, aside from the admitted bias (which doesn't excuse it), why must seers be 100% correct all the time? Being wrong now and then isn't a character flaw.

Quote:

Again, most of her predictions lie around the giving of false hope to people, as in the case of the mining accident. When such claims are proved false, they only cause that much more harm to those that heeded her words. That's my biggest problem with her.

And it's a biased concern that is not applied evenly.

Quote:

True, albeit highly unlikely that everyone is fine. I believe some of my deceased family members are rather unhappy where they are now--just because they may have been a good, decent person to me doesn't mean they weren't a hypocrite in their own faith, and unnecessarily horrible to others.

Why is your UPG on the subject more valid than hers?

Quote:

Common in many traditions, yes, but not all. She speaks with a Christian-ish tinge, and I have read nothing in Christian theology that says ancestors are watching and protecting their loved ones.

Depends on the kind of Christian. Gnostic Christianity is far more open to such things- and damn... have you looked at Catholicism? One word for you: Saints.

Quote:

True in many cases, but there's always a few lazy apples in the bunch, wanting a quick fix. My friend is currently going through such a problem; it's a frustrating thing to watch.

Are you sure your personal opinions about the validity of your friends "answers" aren't blinding you to the legit experience she is having.  

[Midnight Divine]

I believe in her to a certain extent. I had a personal experience with her, or rather, my mom did. My mom is a flightattendent, and Sylvia was on one of her flights, (this was around 18? years ago)
Sylvia Told her-
-She would have two healthy kids (Me and my brother)
-She would marry a man who's name starts with a "J" (My dad's name is John)
-She will not marry her soulmate (She didn't, believe me)
-Her soul mate was her best friend, who's name started with a "R" (Her bestfriend's name was Rick)
-She died in her past life by drowning (My mom is afraid of water)  

[queertastrophy]

First of all, sorry for the delay in response. Extra work + school X (post spring-break madness) = dead. gonk

TeaDidikai

Cpme now Blue... shifting the Burden of Proof?

The way I see it is that she made the claim first, therefore she needs the proof. Of course, I'm not skilled in debating for s**t, so...I should probably shut up about it. Conceded.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

However, there are many web pages that cover her false predictions:

http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/sylviapredictions98.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aspie/trueorfalse/sylviabrowne.html
http://www.anatheist.com/Articles/bs_files_sylvia_browne1.html

^ But to name a few that I've found (granted, they all have a bias towards her, but report what she said and what happened in the cases given accurately).

Well, aside from the admitted bias (which doesn't excuse it), why must seers be 100% correct all the time? Being wrong now and then isn't a character flaw.

Not a character flaw, no, but I'd consider it a flaw in her skill.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Again, most of her predictions lie around the giving of false hope to people, as in the case of the mining accident. When such claims are proved false, they only cause that much more harm to those that heeded her words. That's my biggest problem with her.

And it's a biased concern that is not applied evenly.

How so? I'm not seeing how I don't apply it evenly, as I think everything she says is the result of cold reading.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

True, albeit highly unlikely that everyone is fine. I believe some of my deceased family members are rather unhappy where they are now--just because they may have been a good, decent person to me doesn't mean they weren't a hypocrite in their own faith, and unnecessarily horrible to others.

Why is your UPG on the subject more valid than hers?

I'm merely saying that those who were close to the deceased would have a better insight of their character and faith, and where they would go in their respective afterlives (if any faith was held in such a thing, at all). If she were to tell me what she feels to be right about my deceased family members, I'd be inclined not to believe her, as she didn't know them personally and thoroughly (or at all, for that matter) as I did.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Common in many traditions, yes, but not all. She speaks with a Christian-ish tinge, and I have read nothing in Christian theology that says ancestors are watching and protecting their loved ones.

Depends on the kind of Christian. Gnostic Christianity is far more open to such things- and damn... have you looked at Catholicism? One word for you: Saints.

I'll be first in line to admit I know nothing of gnostic Christianity, so I can't give an opinion on that (heck, I've never even heard of it before I ventured into M & R). Saints in the Catholic spectrum yes, but I wouldn't classify them in the same group as ancestors and the like.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

True in many cases, but there's always a few lazy apples in the bunch, wanting a quick fix. My friend is currently going through such a problem; it's a frustrating thing to watch.

Are you sure your personal opinions about the validity of your friends "answers" aren't blinding you to the legit experience she is having.

I'm sure. She's one of those sloppy UU's who take aspects from other religions out of context and mush them together. Hence my frustration.