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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:03 am
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`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven. Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
Yup I pulled out a major topic not only because of how it's affected my life so far but it's something of a topic of interest since I brought it up with my new found Catholic friend on imvu. Don't you just love how most of my bullshit and topics come from imvu xD
Anyways, we were talking about Saints, specifically Saint Francis, who is probably my favorite saint of them all. Next to St. Jeanne D'Arc and St. Bridget. Anyways she was amazed at how the violence that St. Francis witnessed turned to God and did God's work. I eloquently put that humans sometimes learn from pain and sorrow, which seems to be the case in many of the Saints.
Now the topic is not about the saints, but after that she mentioned abuse and claiming that abuse doesn't come from God. Now I guess you could say that I'm an abuse victim because of the amount of verbal and emotional abuse I've received for much of my life. She thinks that abuse only teaches people to hate and be hated. While that can be sort of true but it's purely case by case. For me, yes I do hate my mother for what she has done to me and what she continues to do. However I don't go out and hate others and wish to be hated. (Aside from my random emotional breakdowns and depressive states).
What irked about it is that she tried to say that sometimes abuse happens for a reason unknown or something (I closed the room >.>) and gave an example of a deaf child. And how a parent doesn't know if the child is deaf or could be ignoring someone.
So discuss:
Where does abuse come from? Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse? Are abuse victims doomed repeaters? Was my friend's example illogical?
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!' Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:11 pm
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I can speak from personal opinion, since I have seen my fair share of abuse(As with at least like, 90% of the population.)
Now this may sound odd at first, but just wait till the end to understand what I'm saying.
I remember once when I was younger, that I had certain views that many did not like. A group of young Christians at my school would always tease me about it but I always made childish remarks about them saying they were idiots, etc. Well, one day they got steamed at me because as a way to get back at them making fun of my mother I made fun of the bible.
I had hit a soft spot, so they decided to retaliate. About a week later I was on the playground(Grade six was when this all happened) and suddenly I felt a sharp pain in the back of my head. Next thing I knew I was face first in dirt with somebody on top of me. Those kids that hated me had literally attacked me, and were beating me. Nothing was broken, but it was pretty close to it. They kept beating me and taunting me until finally my friend at the time Willy(William) ran up and pushed one of them off me. He said he was going to tell and they ran.
Now, I tried to explain what happened to the teachers but of course I was pretty enraged. I was sad, but mainly filled with fury. I was known for having a temper and being in fights, so they thought I was making it up. Especially since the kids that attacked me were known to be the most peaceful kids. Well for a time after that because of the actions of those few, I started really hating Christians, of any kind. I couldn't "Forgive them for what they'd done." My words, not mine....You get what I mean.
Years passed and abuse against me by religious people happened in highschool, so I was getting pretty hating of religion by this point. Then the lamest thing that could possibly have happened changed my life. I got really obsessed with Star Wars. I stop focusing on Science to "Disprove Christianity." Again, younger my words, not currently mine. I kept focusing on the Jedi and religions within Star Wars, how they reflected the ones in the real world. How the Sith fought against them, how the Sith weren't exactly evil at times and the Jedi were. How tides would change and one group would ruin it for the others. Somehow, through my reading of many Star Wars novels I calmed down and gave up my blood hunt. Now, I study theology and treat all religions with respect and the attention they deserve. Now I don't hate any religions because of what a few members may have done to me, and I believe I've grown a greater understanding in my own beliefs due to this.
So I guess in a way, my hatred of religion was the perfect tool to create my great acceptance and understand of religion. It gave me a real perspective on what people might think or believe about a religion they disagree with. And my job is to help create peace and understand when it comes to the religions of the world, I understand the mind of a person who only thinks of hate.
This may not have exactly been on topic, but I felt there was at least some relevance to this story.
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:45 pm
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:00 am
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:20 pm
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:26 pm
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:33 am
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Your topic caught my eye. So I thought I might add a few of my own veiws to the party Where does abuse come from?....
As far as i can recall abuse comes from the need to feel power over others. Something is broken inside those who abuse others, and they think that making others feel small or causing pain to them will make them feel better about themselves
Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse?....
I'm not sure about your choice of words there. Learn how to treat others, certainly How to show love, maybe Appreciate kindness, most definatly
Are abuse victims doomed repeaters?
No they are not, as humans we all have a choice. I say this as a victim of bullies and emotional abuse all through my school years. I was the short fat girl with the lisp, and boy did i catch hell for it. I think back and remember crying alot, but I also remember it giving me ways to make friends. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. As the saying goes. Those years taught me the meaning of friendship, the value of kindness, and how to forgive. I know alot of people like me can be bitter they can't see the forest for the trees. I look back on the whole thing not just the incidents and I realize I wouldn't be the person I am without those things. I will never abuse or bully another person, cause hurting others won't heal me.
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:30 pm
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Wow, this topic is so up my alley. smile
Abuse comes from a lot of places. It comes from people having an imbalance of chemicals or underdeveloped structures in the brain, who just don't understand the appropriate way to interact with others and attain what they want. It comes from those who have experienced abuse themselves and are therefore hurt, angry, scared, sad, and don't know any other way to deal with that pain except to lash out at others and "take from the world what the world owes them." It comes from a desire to control. Do I think it comes from God? Maybe indirectly. I think that God allows things to happen, even bad things. Just look at Job. God explicitly allowed Satan to wreak havoc upon Job's life, all for the sake of drawing Job closer to Him. I believe that God allows similar situations in our lives. There is the ability to learn from them, and grow. Not everyone does, but then, those that don't were probably never told, or never realized, that it was okay to learn and grow, and to take that experience and make it into something positive.
I believe victims can learn to love from abuse, depending on the circumstance. When I and my mother and brothers were in an abusive situation, I learned to love them very strongly. I became their protector. I continue with this style of love towards everyone. I hate to see anyone in pain, suffering, so I do what I can, and sometimes more, to try to alleviate that.
I wouldn't say that abuse survivors are necessarily doomed to repeat abusive behavior. They might be more prone to distorted thinking that may cause them to act inappropriately or abusively towards others, but I think that it really depends on the resources and healing available to them. A lot of times, abuse victims will turn their abusive patterns inward, and punish themselves rather than others. If you think about what I mentioned about where abuse comes from, a history of abuse can definitely play a factor. But I don't think it's necessarily written in stone. If so, I'm doomed. D:
I'm not really sure what her example of the deaf child has to do with anything, but I'd agree that everything happens for a reason.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:15 am
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I think there is a very fine line to be drawn between 'victim' and 'survivor.' For anyone that goes through a traumatic experience - be it abuse, rape, molestation, or other topics not fit for conversation in polite society - those two words indicate two very different sets of people.
Victims allow the experience to seep into them, and perhaps even control them. In the case of this thread, the abuse victim has a lot of fear, anxiety, and anger to deal with. Fushigi's psycho-babble is all correct. Victims are also the group more likely to strike out and abuse others (or themselves).
Survivors are different. They allow themselves to get over the trauma, grow, and get on with their lives. Not to say that what happened wasn't terrible, and that they won't bear the scars (physical or otherwise) for the rest of their lives, but the experience doesn't DEFINE them. It doesn't control them or their actions. These are the people who are less likely to be repeat abusers, because they've been able to heal. Victims sometimes can't, or sometimes refuse to. Some are just unlucky enough to be unable to access any resources to start the process. Victims can become survivors, in time, if they can find it within themselves to heal.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:27 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:10 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:10 pm
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The Amazing Ryuu I think there is a very fine line to be drawn between 'victim' and 'survivor.' For anyone that goes through a traumatic experience - be it abuse, rape, molestation, or other topics not fit for conversation in polite society - those two words indicate two very different sets of people. Victims allow the experience to seep into them, and perhaps even control them. In the case of this thread, the abuse victim has a lot of fear, anxiety, and anger to deal with. Fushigi's psycho-babble is all correct. Victims are also the group more likely to strike out and abuse others (or themselves). Survivors are different. They allow themselves to get over the trauma, grow, and get on with their lives. Not to say that what happened wasn't terrible, and that they won't bear the scars (physical or otherwise) for the rest of their lives, but the experience doesn't DEFINE them. It doesn't control them or their actions. These are the people who are less likely to be repeat abusers, because they've been able to heal. Victims sometimes can't, or sometimes refuse to. Some are just unlucky enough to be unable to access any resources to start the process. Victims can become survivors, in time, if they can find it within themselves to heal.
I never liked this distinction. I understand why it is made (so "survivors" have a positive way to identify themselves to combat stereotypes), but it always rang false to me.
I've been the victim of abuse. I've been the victim of car accidents. I could conceivably be the victim of identity theft. What is the value in changing "victim" to "survivor" in any of those?
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:17 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:42 pm
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