Jumping back in

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

As some of you may be aware, the reason for my absence of late has been a crisis of faith. I disappeared when I felt my own smaller than a mustard seed of faith was no longer adequate to call myself captain. Now, I'm struggling back into it. And when I say struggling, I do mean struggling. There are days where I'm so sure of what I believe that I think it's silly I even had doubts to begin with, but then, more often than not, that small burst of belief is overwhelmed by months of unbelief and doubt, and, admittedly, dabbling in other things, such as tarot and astrology.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't have considered trying to come back if it weren't for my boyfriend, who is also making the limp back towards his relationship with God. I figure I can't be fully supportive if I'm on the fence (or on the complete opposite side of the fence as most days have it) myself.

So how do you do it? I know I'm not the only one with this struggle, and I can't remember how to get back to where I was. I pray, and it helps, for the moment, and then I just end up feeling silly. I try to read my Bible, but all it turns out to be for me is food for thought. I've been meaning to go back to church, and I went for New Year's Eve, and while the service was great, I just didn't ... feel anything.

For the most part, my actions and philosophy on life still scream "Christian," but in my heart there's nothing but spiritual death. To be honest, it's a little terrifying, when I'm not so numbingly apathetic. I guess I'm just in need of encouragement and suggestions. confused  

[rmcdra]

The Dark Night is very scary and lonely. It is one of the greatest trials of Christianity.

This poem is supposed to delineate the process of how to overcome the Dark Night. St. John of the Cross, Dark Night of the Soul

The best I can recommend is to keep faith that if you keep "knocking" someone will answer. Know that you are not alone in this. Many many Christians go through this. Finally let go of what you think God is supposed to be. If you stare at a picture of an orange for so long you can start thinking that the picture is the orange.

I'm available for PM if you need to talk.

PS: I can't believe I missed that. I wouldn't feel guilty about tarot and astrology. There's nothing wrong with it.  

[Zolof Keeper Of Souls]

I've struggled like this before. My fix most likely wouldn't work with you, but i would suggest trying to get around some good Christian people. Go to church often and don't just go to go go to get something out of the service. I guess just seek help from your pastor as well, and more importantly seek help from God.  

[Matt Pniewski]

I find it's not necessarily a bad idea to embrace the doubt. Because there is nothing wrong with "Not Knowing", because there is no magical cure all to fix a problem of faith like this. Don't waste your time phoning it in.



I don't know what you should do to get it back. No suggestions given to you worked for me, so I remained doubtful. How I came back was how I came back, and it happened. I didn't look for it or ask for it.


I met somebody who had some of the same ideas as me, but was not angry and irritable, and came in the name of Christ. We shared ideas, and eventually, it happened.  

[Lindpen]

I can relate; I've struggled with doubt off-and-on, and I think most (or all) of us do sometimes. Even Peter and Thomas doubted.

The posters above gave good advice. Doubt is a hard struggle, but God will always help. I'll be praying, and I feel your pain. God is so amazing, and He will always be there and answer you. I pray He will give you peace and alleviate your doubt and worries.

God bless. I don't know if I said anything helpful, but you'll be in my prayers. Doubt sucks. sad  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

@rmcdra: I read through the poem (wasn't sure if the other links were part of the poem or not), and to me it felt more like the end of the journey than the journey itself. Nevertheless, it sounds to me like the place where I came from, where I felt I knew and understood God, and He knew and understood me, and He was my sole (soul? 8D wink purpose. And I just ... I'm not there anymore.

I do/will keep knocking, except that I'm afraid I'm not knocking loud enough. The part of me that strives to find God again is being held back by the part of me that doesn't care, and I'm afraid that the part of me that doesn't care will win out in the end, or like God will see that I'm not whole-hearted about my efforts right now, and will just sit back and wait until I'm more interested. It's silly, because logically I know everything I'm afraid of is nonsense. I spent years learning how to understand how God works both against and with our fears to help us grow, and I know God is greater and more powerful than all of it. But knowing somehow makes my faith feel less than it should be. I guess it's all a matter of learning how to walk by faith once more, rather than by sight, but it is hard. neutral

@zolo3344: Sort of like what Matt was saying: every person is different, and God uses different things to call us back to Him. I will acknowledge that my lack of Christian fellowship makes it a lot harder to get back into my faith, and having not gone to church in forever and a day also makes it hard to get out of my head and get perspective on the Word. I think I do need people to hold me accountable and pull me out of this "me clay" stage I'm in. D:

@Matt Pniewski: Well, once I realized my heart was in a full-on onslaught of doubt, I gave up on trying to fight it. Admitting to myself that I was no longer sure of what I believed was terrifying, and I pendulumed back and forth on it, trying to convince myself I was still really, really sure of everything. I know there's nothing wrong with not knowing; it's just uncomfortable, especially to a control freak like me. sweatdrop I still believe that everything has a purpose, and I intend to learn something from this period in my life, I just wish I knew what notes I should be taking. neutral

@Lindpen: I feel a lot like both Peter and Thomas right now. I knew God, you know? I was one of those passionate people who was on fire for God and then, one day, that fire was gone. It was literally like someone had flipped a switch in my heart and all my faith was nowhere to be seen. I've denied God out loud on several occasions, and I keep telling myself, if only I had some solid proof, something that would just remind me what it all means, something that will flip the switch again. Yeah, it's definitely hard. D: But I really appreciate the prayers. I think they'll help. 3nodding  

[rmcdra]

Fushigi na Butterfly

@rmcdra: I read through the poem (wasn't sure if the other links were part of the poem or not), and to me it felt more like the end of the journey than the journey itself. Nevertheless, it sounds to me like the place where I came from, where I felt I knew and understood God, and He knew and understood me, and He was my sole (soul? 8D wink purpose. And I just ... I'm not there anymore.

I do/will keep knocking, except that I'm afraid I'm not knocking loud enough. The part of me that strives to find God again is being held back by the part of me that doesn't care, and I'm afraid that the part of me that doesn't care will win out in the end, or like God will see that I'm not whole-hearted about my efforts right now, and will just sit back and wait until I'm more interested. It's silly, because logically I know everything I'm afraid of is nonsense. I spent years learning how to understand how God works both against and with our fears to help us grow, and I know God is greater and more powerful than all of it. But knowing somehow makes my faith feel less than it should be. I guess it's all a matter of learning how to walk by faith once more, rather than by sight, but it is hard. neutral

Learning how to make that connection is tough. I in no way was trying to under mind that or say that it isn't because it really is and I sympathize with you. The fact that you recognize this and are willing to try something is a step above most. There are many and I mean many who just settle or ignore the feeling that you are feeling now. The fact that you are still willing to try sets you a step above the rest.

Have you looked into meditation techniques or the Hesychasm prayers? One part about knocking on the door is training yourself so you can "hear" an answer. One can be knocking so much or so fanatically that one doesn't realize that someone is answering the door.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

rmcdra

Learning how to make that connection is tough. I in no way was trying to under mind that or say that it isn't because it really is and I sympathize with you. The fact that you recognize this and are willing to try something is a step above most. There are many and I mean many who just settle or ignore the feeling that you are feeling now. The fact that you are still willing to try sets you a step above the rest.

Have you looked into meditation techniques or the Hesychasm prayers? One part about knocking on the door is training yourself so you can "hear" an answer. One can be knocking so much or so fanatically that one doesn't realize that someone is answering the door.

The being still part is the part I have trouble with the most. I always get the timing wrong. sweatdrop I'm idle when I should be doing something, and doing something when I should be resting and waiting to hear from God (the parable of the two sisters comes to mind). I go back and forth between knocking frantically and straining to hear an answer, and then sitting and doing nothing, and in either case I'm not getting any sort of response back that I can perceive.

I've not looked into meditation or ... that other thing you mentioned. What are Hesychasm prayers?  

[rmcdra]

Fushigi na Butterfly

rmcdra

Learning how to make that connection is tough. I in no way was trying to under mind that or say that it isn't because it really is and I sympathize with you. The fact that you recognize this and are willing to try something is a step above most. There are many and I mean many who just settle or ignore the feeling that you are feeling now. The fact that you are still willing to try sets you a step above the rest.

Have you looked into meditation techniques or the Hesychasm prayers? One part about knocking on the door is training yourself so you can "hear" an answer. One can be knocking so much or so fanatically that one doesn't realize that someone is answering the door.

The being still part is the part I have trouble with the most. I always get the timing wrong. sweatdrop I'm idle when I should be doing something, and doing something when I should be resting and waiting to hear from God (the parable of the two sisters comes to mind). I go back and forth between knocking frantically and straining to hear an answer, and then sitting and doing nothing, and in either case I'm not getting any sort of response back that I can perceive.

I've not looked into meditation or ... that other thing you mentioned. What are Hesychasm prayers?

It's a prayer technique of the Eastern Church that is similar kinda to like yoga or Buddhist meditations. Here's a quick summary of it here Hesychasm. The external links at the bottom give more details on it.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Thanks. I'll check 'em out. 3nodding  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

I've gone through something similar on and off, and even in those moments that I'm decidedly un-Christian, my heart still tells me that God is real. But real like my friend living in Alaska where I live in NJ and we don't really get to talk but we still count each other as friends real. A real I felt disconnected to, and in no real hurry to reconnect. I felt silly praying too (when I remembered, or if I bothered when I remembered). But I still led my life (by and large) in a way that many other Christians did.

Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you're going through this crisis now because you've grown spiritually and didn't even realize it. Your old faith doesn't fit you now. You're not the same person you were two years ago, and anyone who has been in the guild long enough can see the difference in how you talk to us. And we don't even hear from you every day. There are innumerable changes we haven't been privy to, but I know *I* can see a difference, and I only know you via sheets of text. xd You've grown, matured, become more educated, and are trying to reach for feelings that you associate with God, but in actuality belong to someone a little younger, and a little less experienced.

Maybe the trick for you will be not recovering that same exact emotion that you have known. Maybe the passion isn't gone, but settled into something deeper and stiller, something you don't recognize, or have just started taking for granted and want/need something from God's end to start up that fire in you again. Maybe all that knocking has resulted in something small that you didn't account to God, like perhaps your boyfriend's own attempt to come back to his faith. Or maybe he's waiting for you to really be ready for the next stage of your faith, and all the maturity, emotions and responsibilities that go with it.

I'm not trying to say what is or isn't going on in your heart and mind. I'm just tossing this stuff out as food for thought. I've just noticed a trend in my own walk is that when passion appears to be lost, sometimes it's merely dying down to become something more, ESPECIALLY for someone who's been on the trail a long time.

Other than that I really only have a few tidbits of advice.

Embrace your doubt. It's okay to doubt, to talk about your doubt, to doubt your doubt. In fact it's okay to have full-blown hissy fits, scream at God, emotionally and spiritually flail and in general act like a two-year-old. He can take it, and really getting it out there might help crack the shell on what you're feeling (or not feeling).

I know the guild is awesome and all, but you need Christian contact. Church would be good, but a mentor of some kind would probably be better for you. Church is probably just going to reiterate stuff that's spiritual baby food for you now (also possibly the reason for your lack of reaction last time you went). So either a Sunday school class that caters to people of your spiritual maturity, or a mother/father figure you can talk to about spiritual matters.

Do this for yourself. It's wonderful that your boyfriend is trying to regain his faith as well, but don't let that be your only motivation. You'll just get frustrated. If it's not only because of him, then make yourselves a team. You're going to spend a lot of time together as a couple. Why not read the Bible and discuss it, or go to church and have lunch afterward? I think he'll be a great deal of help, being on the same level as yourself (equally-yoked, as it were wink ) and he can support you just as much as you're supporting him.

And finally, you only have reason to feel guilty about astrology and tarot and whatnot if you're actually taking them seriously. If so, you should feel terrible because I know you're smarter than that. If I find out otherwise, I will personally hike my butt down to VA and smack you with a rolled-up newspaper. razz  

[freelance lover]

I've actually been in a similar spot. I actually recently turned down a vice captain position in another guild because I didn't feel I was in a place to be a spiritual leader.

I think the big thing for me is that I know even if I fall away for a while, I'll always come back. I just know that much. There just seems no point in going away when I'm just going to come back. I've begun identifying as a religious pluralist in the past year, which has made me controversial among more conservative Christians (read: most Christians) and I think, while this is a truth I've believed for a long time, it's really hindered my ability to be in a faith community. I feel awkward sharing my beliefs with people for fear of being judged.

I returned to Project Transformation this summer, where I lived in a Christian community, and I really tried to push myself, but so much about my mindset was off last summer. It helped, but I applied so late that I didn't have much of a chance to mentally and spiritually prepare myself. I'm going back again this summer, and since I've applied so early, I'm having time to spiritually prepare myself, and I think it'll be a much more positive experience. I'm also planning on really immersing myself in the community this summer and trying to get back to things. I know in that community I'll be able to find people I feel comfortable sharing my beliefs with too. Plus it's impossible not to see God when you're looking in the face of a smiling child.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

The Amazing Ryuu

I've gone through something similar on and off, and even in those moments that I'm decidedly un-Christian, my heart still tells me that God is real. But real like my friend living in Alaska where I live in NJ and we don't really get to talk but we still count each other as friends real. A real I felt disconnected to, and in no real hurry to reconnect. I felt silly praying too (when I remembered, or if I bothered when I remembered). But I still led my life (by and large) in a way that many other Christians did.

Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you're going through this crisis now because you've grown spiritually and didn't even realize it. Your old faith doesn't fit you now. You're not the same person you were two years ago, and anyone who has been in the guild long enough can see the difference in how you talk to us. And we don't even hear from you every day. There are innumerable changes we haven't been privy to, but I know *I* can see a difference, and I only know you via sheets of text. xd You've grown, matured, become more educated, and are trying to reach for feelings that you associate with God, but in actuality belong to someone a little younger, and a little less experienced.

Maybe the trick for you will be not recovering that same exact emotion that you have known. Maybe the passion isn't gone, but settled into something deeper and stiller, something you don't recognize, or have just started taking for granted and want/need something from God's end to start up that fire in you again. Maybe all that knocking has resulted in something small that you didn't account to God, like perhaps your boyfriend's own attempt to come back to his faith. Or maybe he's waiting for you to really be ready for the next stage of your faith, and all the maturity, emotions and responsibilities that go with it.

I'm not trying to say what is or isn't going on in your heart and mind. I'm just tossing this stuff out as food for thought. I've just noticed a trend in my own walk is that when passion appears to be lost, sometimes it's merely dying down to become something more, ESPECIALLY for someone who's been on the trail a long time.

Other than that I really only have a few tidbits of advice.

Embrace your doubt. It's okay to doubt, to talk about your doubt, to doubt your doubt. In fact it's okay to have full-blown hissy fits, scream at God, emotionally and spiritually flail and in general act like a two-year-old. He can take it, and really getting it out there might help crack the shell on what you're feeling (or not feeling).

I know the guild is awesome and all, but you need Christian contact. Church would be good, but a mentor of some kind would probably be better for you. Church is probably just going to reiterate stuff that's spiritual baby food for you now (also possibly the reason for your lack of reaction last time you went). So either a Sunday school class that caters to people of your spiritual maturity, or a mother/father figure you can talk to about spiritual matters.

Do this for yourself. It's wonderful that your boyfriend is trying to regain his faith as well, but don't let that be your only motivation. You'll just get frustrated. If it's not only because of him, then make yourselves a team. You're going to spend a lot of time together as a couple. Why not read the Bible and discuss it, or go to church and have lunch afterward? I think he'll be a great deal of help, being on the same level as yourself (equally-yoked, as it were wink ) and he can support you just as much as you're supporting him.

And finally, you only have reason to feel guilty about astrology and tarot and whatnot if you're actually taking them seriously. If so, you should feel terrible because I know you're smarter than that. If I find out otherwise, I will personally hike my butt down to VA and smack you with a rolled-up newspaper. razz

Wow. I hadn't actually thought of any of what I'm going through as growth. I'd been kinda feeling like it was the opposite of growth. I know I have definitely grown in other ways, and I wonder if my new philosophies on life won't disagree with the value of Jesus' teachings just by their very nature. In the past year or so, I've turned into a bit of a feminist with a strong propensity for preaching on the merits of sexual freedom, which, so far as I know, is sort of not taught in Christianity (sex is for marriage only). As selfish as it seems, I don't know that I could give up a lot of what I believe in favor of more Biblical teachings. I don't believe women should take a backseat role in everyday matters, and particularly in relationships, I don't believe sexuality is something to be repressed and kept only in someone else's "proper context," I don't believe that homosexuality, in theory or in practice, is sinful, and I don't believe that other people who have never heard of Jesus are set up for eternal damnation. A lot of this goes against either what the Bible teaches, or what other people say the Bible teaches, and it makes me just want to throw it all away for the sake of avoiding argument and say it doesn't matter what someone else says you should believe -- just do what's in your heart. So I don't know if you'd still necessarily call that growth.

When I went to the New Year's Eve service with my friend, I looked around at everyone and those with their hands raised and eyes closed, and even the band on stage that was pretty much rockin' out in the name of Jesus and ... they all just seemed so ... silly. confused It's like there's a total disconnect. I don't get it anymore. It's not me, it's not who I am, and I don't know how to get back in a way that is me and who I am. When I've cried to God about it, I don't feel the same comfort or peace I used to when I'd go to Him. It's just nothing. Silence. An empty void. It's not even so much a wall like it has been in the past. The wall is gone, but I'm not finding anything on the other side.

I know my boyfriend will be a huge help to me in this respect; I think he gets it a little better than I do. Unfortunately though, it is my only motivation. If it wasn't for him, I'd probably still be plodding along doing my own thing. I have no other motivation of my own to give this God thing another try. D:

And you may wanna make ready your newspaper. confused  

[freelance lover]

@Fushigi: OMG welcome to my world. I share many of those beliefs (really, all of them) and I totally understand. It's a really fine line to walk. I've taken a lot of religion classes from a pretty liberal religion school, so that's helped me reconcile some of my beliefs, but it also just added more questions. I feel like every time I find an answer, I get three more questions. I totally understand your frustration.

I agree with Ryuu, sometimes you just have to accept you just don't know. It sucks, but... sometimes you just have to understand that.

I also agree the raised-hands thing is kind of silly. Maybe it's because I wasn't raised Christian, but it's never appealed to me. I think everyone has to find their own way to worship. I had a friend in high school who said she only felt close to God when she played the piano. Not everyone worships the same way.

I dunno. I'm in the same place in so many ways. Needless to say, we're all here if you need to chat.  

[zz1000zz]

First off, tarot and astrology are idiotic. They are entirely based upon willful delusions. I am actually interested in teleconnected relations of disparate incidents, but neither tarot nor astrology work for it.

Second, over displays of "faith" have never made sense to me. As a general rule, if you are waving your hands in the air, you aren't focusing on your faith. Faith is internal.

Third, and most importantly, Fushigi na Butterfly, the issues you listed about the Bible are not things which should be problems. The Bible doesn't require much of what people claim it requires. You shouldn't let your faith suffer because other people misuse the Bible. It makes no sense to throw away your faith in God simply because people who claim to believe in him try to mislead you.