Different kinds of paganism

[Brass Bell Doll]

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be it's own thread or if it should have stayed in the other thread, but here it goes:

What kinds of paganism are there?
I know about different pantheons and stuff, but what methodologies have you seen? Which have you adopted? And which have appealed?

Are there ones you would never engage in? If so- why?

I've seen the term Reconstruction before and a couple others too.  

[AvalonAuggie]

There's a staggering number and variety of pagan religions. Take a look at the Link List and recommended reading posts to get an idea of the scope. There's a lot going on underneath the general pagan umbrella. and there's a few different ways of defining "Paganism."

Isaac Bonewits uses a three-tier classification system, categorizing various beliefs and practices as Paleo-, Meso-, or Neo-pagan, depending on when they were developed. In the most basic sense "pagan" is anything that isn't an Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) religion.

A lot of what you find on the internet, and in the New Age section of bookstores where authors can make the big bucks from young Americans' spiritual insecurities, is a generic semi-eclectic, sometimes soft polytheistic neopaganism, with a ritual structure derived from outer court Wiccan material. For reasons that boggle the mind, this is often simply called "Wicca," and I use the quotation marks here because Wicca is a previously existing orthopraxic fertility cult traceable to Gerald Gardner, and a branch of British Traditional Witchcraft. Bookstore "Wicca" calls itself "Wicca" mainly to capitalize on the fact that this is the most well-known modern Pagan religion to American audiences.

But of course, a lot of generic neopagans don't use the "Wicca" label, and they're fine people for it.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

AvalonAuggie

There's a staggering number and variety of pagan religions. Take a look at the Link List and recommended reading posts to get an idea of the scope. There's a lot going on underneath the general pagan umbrella. and there's a few different ways of defining "Paganism."

When I reviewed them, they seemed to deal more with themes in practice than methodologies.
But thank you for the recommendations.

Quote:

Isaac Bonewits uses a three-tier classification system, categorizing various beliefs and practices as Paleo-, Meso-, or Neo-pagan, depending on when they were developed. In the most basic sense "pagan" is anything that isn't an Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) religion.

I am familiar with his system, but I don't feel it really applies to my question.

AvalonAuggie

A lot of what you find on the internet, and in the New Age section of bookstores where authors can make the big bucks from young Americans' spiritual insecurities, is a generic semi-eclectic, sometimes soft polytheistic neopaganism, with a ritual structure derived from outer court Wiccan material. For reasons that boggle the mind, this is often simply called "Wicca," and I use the quotation marks here because Wicca is a previously existing orthopraxic fertility cult traceable to Gerald Gardner, and a branch of British Traditional Witchcraft. Bookstore "Wicca" calls itself "Wicca" mainly to capitalize on the fact that this is the most well-known modern Pagan religion to American audiences.

But of course, a lot of generic neopagans don't use the "Wicca" label, and they're fine people for it.

I agree. The problem is that if reconstruction is a methodology, what else is there in the way of methodologies? Do you feel Eclecticism is a methodology as well?
I was thinking that Restorationism may be considered one as well, but when I think about it, I can't say I've heard of anyone claiming to be a Restorationist Pagan.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Brass Bell Doll

I agree. The problem is that if reconstruction is a methodology, what else is there in the way of methodologies? Do you feel Eclecticism is a methodology as well?
I was thinking that Restorationism may be considered one as well, but when I think about it, I can't say I've heard of anyone claiming to be a Restorationist Pagan.

Sorry for the superfluous info then, I wasn't sure how much you'd looked into various practices. sweatdrop

How do you distinguish between Reconstructionist and Restorationist movements? I'm not a recon but a lot of the posters here have talked about the issues with applying ancient religion to modern cultural and geographical context, and Restorationists would have much the same problems.

IMO, eclecticism is a methodology that works better in theory than in practice. It's hard enough work doing the research that's required of understanding one religion, but add in aspects from others and the workload increases exponentially. Also, there's a distinction between Eclecticism, where one includes elements of different religions, and Syncretism, where these different elements are synthesized into a new blended whole. Those are both difficult approaches, though.

With Eclecticism there's the issue of clashing ideas, deities, etc. that appear when you're dealing with religions that developed in different cultural contexts. Syncretic methodologies have to deal with the question of whether it is right to take disparate religious aspects out of their original contexts, and whether this new system is intellectually and spiritually sound, in addition to the work of trying to make them fit together at all.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

AvalonAuggie

Sorry for the superfluous info then, I wasn't sure how much you'd looked into various practices. sweatdrop

It's not really a problem. I've been into this stuff for a couple of decades.

AvalonAuggie

How do you distinguish between Reconstructionist and Restorationist movements? I'm not a recon but a lot of the posters here have talked about the issues with applying ancient religion to modern cultural and geographical context, and Restorationists would have much the same problems.

I feel that the restorationist movements would end up being even stricter than the Reconstructionists, or at least that's my impression.

AvalonAuggie

IMO, eclecticism is a methodology that works better in theory than in practice. It's hard enough work doing the research that's required of understanding one religion, but add in aspects from others and the workload increases exponentially. Also, there's a distinction between Eclecticism, where one includes elements of different religions, and Syncretism, where these different elements are synthesized into a new blended whole. Those are both difficult approaches, though.

I feel the challenge depends a lot more on the person than the methodology.

I feel there is often a rigid standard applied to such practices out of a fear of being wrong that wouldn't have existed.

AvalonAuggie

With Eclecticism there's the issue of clashing ideas, deities, etc. that appear when you're dealing with religions that developed in different cultural contexts. Syncretic methodologies have to deal with the question of whether it is right to take disparate religious aspects out of their original contexts, and whether this new system is intellectually and spiritually sound, in addition to the work of trying to make them fit together at all.

I like this. It's a good point.

But I also feel like some of the clashes are a small spectrum of what we have to work with too. I'm not saying people should make stuff up out of no where, but at the same time I'm not sure that history is our only sign post for how things can be done.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Brass Bell Doll

I feel that the restorationist movements would end up being even stricter than the Reconstructionists, or at least that's my impression.

Hmmm. There's degrees of reconstructionism, of course, but I can see how a more rigid approach to accuracy would set itself apart. And be hard to accomplish.

Quote:

I feel the challenge depends a lot more on the person than the methodology.

I feel there is often a rigid standard applied to such practices out of a fear of being wrong that wouldn't have existed.

But I also feel like some of the clashes are a small spectrum of what we have to work with too. I'm not saying people should make stuff up out of no where, but at the same time I'm not sure that history is our only sign post for how things can be done.

Definitely. And for people who are discovering pagan religions rather than, say, growing up with it in their spiritual culture, there's a line to be walked between being intellectually rigorous in research and having the end result be fulfilling. You could get lost in the sheer volume of information (or lack of it) and, yes, have a fear of doing it wrong and give up, or you could go the other route and do what feels good regardless of the basis of your actions, which can get sloppy.

You're absolutely right about history not being the only signpost. I don't have any real familiarity with groups that have a more contemporary source for their religion, but it's part of what I'm trying to do in my personal path.  

[Deoridhe]

Brass Bell Doll

I can't say I've heard of anyone claiming to be a Restorationist Pagan.

Resotationist Paganism would be hard to pull off. I've heard of one Norse group trying it but they seemed inclined to not give up modern technology, which sort of defeats the purpose, I think.

I have to admit, I would be amused by Amish-style Paganism, but.... I like my computer.

*hugs it*  

[Ishtar Shakti]

... Well as pagan by definition is anything non-judeo christian and I'm not quite sure but perhaps muslim as well. That is a very long list of religions and practices that could possibly be adopted by people.

I personally like the thought of studying societies and practices within that context as it never really seems to be properly captured by paper.
I find Native American religions to be quite interesting. I've studied a bit of Sumerian and European mythologies etc. those are interesting as well.

People who study... practicing magic seems to be a slightly different question all together. As in this case it seems like the two terms are interchangeable I'm not sure How to answer.

In anycase there are as many pagan traditions as there are religions... minus christian etc.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Deoridhe

Resotationist Paganism would be hard to pull off. I've heard of one Norse group trying it but they seemed inclined to not give up modern technology, which sort of defeats the purpose, I think.

I have to admit, I would be amused by Amish-style Paganism, but.... I like my computer.

*hugs it*

I feel it poses an interesting question. If there wasa restorationist group, would we know about them?

Ishtar Shakti

... Well as pagan by definition is anything non-judeo christian and I'm not quite sure but perhaps muslim as well.

If I recall correctly, pagan is usually applied to people who do not follow an Abrahamic religion. I feel this includes Islam, and people who follow Islam are known as Muslims.

Ishtar Shakti

That is a very long list of religions and practices that could possibly be adopted by people.

I completely agree. But the intention of the thread isn't to discuss those religions, but the methodologies used amongst them.

Which methodologies do you feel can be found within paganism?  

[Gho the Girl]

DemoniaFairy

IRRELAVENT: I once used the term 'paganism' on myspace in a pagan group i joined (I was just posting about how I've taken a strong interest in paganism) and some girl went off on me, she told me to never say paganism, it's always just pagan... ? What the heck was up with that? Is it really inappropriate to say that?

No. Idiocy runs rampant wherever you are.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Brass Bell Doll

Deoridhe

Resotationist Paganism would be hard to pull off. I've heard of one Norse group trying it but they seemed inclined to not give up modern technology, which sort of defeats the purpose, I think.

I have to admit, I would be amused by Amish-style Paganism, but.... I like my computer.

*hugs it*

I feel it poses an interesting question. If there wasa restorationist group, would we know about them?

Ishtar Shakti

... Well as pagan by definition is anything non-judeo christian and I'm not quite sure but perhaps muslim as well.

If I recall correctly, pagan is usually applied to people who do not follow an Abrahamic religion. I feel this includes Islam, and people who follow Islam are known as Muslims.

Ishtar Shakti

That is a very long list of religions and practices that could possibly be adopted by people.

I completely agree. But the intention of the thread isn't to discuss those religions, but the methodologies used amongst them.

Which methodologies do you feel can be found within paganism?

Well... again long list.
Methodologies I use mostly have to do with names. In practice the names of beings are important and the study of why worship works and the practical affects it has.

I have adopted mostly moral codes having to do with trying to limit harm but I dislike Wicca and the law of three and impractical Karma... because mostly I see it as non-existant. Practical Karma would be the belief that all actions have consequences whether we are aware of them or not, but most peoples applications of Karma as a force of its own doesn't jive with me.

I also don't jive well with buddhism because I'm pretty sure they are working towards ego death which I don't think is really helpful if taken to extremes.

I also don't believe in three fold law or that you can actually Not harm. I don't believe that you go to hell for sin-ing. I don't believe in traditional right and wrong I have a heavily intent oriented moral system. One of the few sins I actually see as a sin is lying. Any religion which adopts lying as a bad thing is all right by me.

I'm not very Big on rituals... I don't usually call on dieties for anything. There are prices that I don't always feel comfortable not knowing and anytime you get tangled with a powerful spirit the affects branch out so to speak. So I try to stay away. Usually I can do what I need to on my own. I don't trust gods as not having self interests and I think it pretty nieve to think thar you can call on spirits and they aren't taking anything in return. They drain energy, alter your life and you just embrace it???? For a path that you can only hope is better then the one you choose for yourself, for an iffy place in the after life. I would want a talk with them first to make sure are goals are at least oriented in the same direction.

Mostly I'm interested in creation myths and storries of religions. The kojiki is pretty interesting. I like disparate elements to storries and finding links and similarities. Soo mostly I study myths and not methodologies and I don't really use many methods in my practice. The closest thing is using candles for summoning because the nature of a candle is pretty good for that purpose.

I developed a personal moral code. I dislike certain concepts of different religions.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Ishtar Shakti

Well... again long list.
Methodologies I use mostly have to do with names. In practice the names of beings are important and the study of why worship works and the practical affects it has.

This isn't really what the thread is about. I'm interested in what methodologies exist within pagan religions. Some of the examples that have been listed so far have included Reconstruction, Restoration and Eclecticism.

Have you seen any of these kinds of methodologies in paganism?

Ishtar Shakti

I have adopted mostly moral codes having to do with trying to limit harm but I dislike Wicca and the law of three and impractical Karma... because mostly I see it as non-existant. Practical Karma would be the belief that all actions have consequences whether we are aware of them or not, but most peoples applications of Karma as a force of its own doesn't jive with me.

I also don't jive well with buddhism because I'm pretty sure they are working towards ego death which I don't think is really helpful if taken to extremes.

I also don't believe in three fold law or that you can actually Not harm. I don't believe that you go to hell for sin-ing. I don't believe in traditional right and wrong I have a heavily intent oriented moral system. One of the few sins I actually see as a sin is lying. Any religion which adopts lying as a bad thing is all right by me.

I'm not very Big on rituals... I don't usually call on dieties for anything. There are prices that I don't always feel comfortable not knowing and anytime you get tangled with a powerful spirit the affects branch out so to speak. So I try to stay away. Usually I can do what I need to on my own. I don't trust gods as not having self interests and I think it pretty nieve to think thar you can call on spirits and they aren't taking anything in return. They drain energy, alter your life and you just embrace it???? For a path that you can only hope is better then the one you choose for yourself, for an iffy place in the after life. I would want a talk with them first to make sure are goals are at least oriented in the same direction.

Mostly I'm interested in creation myths and storries of religions. The kojiki is pretty interesting. I like disparate elements to storries and finding links and similarities. Soo mostly I study myths and not methodologies and I don't really use many methods in my practice. The closest thing is using candles for summoning because the nature of a candle is pretty good for that purpose.

I developed a personal moral code. I dislike certain concepts of different religions.

I am very interested in discussing this more, but I feel this isn't the thread for it. Would you be willing to start a new thread so we may continue the conversation?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Oh I was thinking you were asking for methods used in religions such as calling on dieties, idols, laws, etc. (class structures, views on various levels of beings and where souls reside and other such things)

It seems your more asking what methods are used to approaching the study of paganism which what you just listed would fall under.

But I wouldn't mind starting another thread.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Ishtar Shakti

It seems your more asking what methods are used to approaching the study of paganism which what you just listed would fall under.

I wouldn't feel that it is how paganism is studied, but rather how people incorporate paganism into their lives.